To Mai Li 
#21219
20 y
2,173
So you say that stones are the biochemical result of bile flowing into the small intestine? But this is a normal part of digestion.
You have bile and olive oil. Bile emulsifies oil.
The way that (most) stones form is inside the gallbladder. One of the functions of this tiny organ is to store and concentrate bile. In some people bile sometimes becomes overly saturated (super-saturated). Choleserol Gallstones are the result.
Now you might say that stones are *formed* by the process of liverflushing. I would say possibly. But even then I would say stones are formed *inside* the gallbladder.
More
- Hi Mr Cooties Mai Li
20 y
2,197
This is a reply to # 412,512Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
The main reason that I dont think that the "stones" that come from a Liver Flush originate in the gall bladder is the simple fact that it isn't big enough to contain the sort of volumes that are reported here.
Yes, bile flowing into the small intestine is a normal part of digestion, but what I think happens is that the injestion of the large amount of OO (Olive-Oil) stimulates a massive production of bile, which floods into the intestines. (There have been plenty of mainstream medical papers written showing that olive and other oils do stimulate bile production.)
If I am correct, the normal biochemical balance of the intestines would be upset by the flood of bile and that is how I think the stones are formed.
So I think the Liver Flush benefits come from the cholesterol lowering effects of the production and expulsion of large amounts of bile.
I'll be happy to continue this discussion but it wont be for a few days as I'm packing for a trip.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
The main reason that I dont think that the "stones" that come from a Liver Flush originate in the gall bladder is the simple fact that it isn't big enough to contain the sort of volumes that are reported here.
Yes, bile flowing into the small intestine is a normal part of digestion, but what I think happens is that the injestion of this the large amount of OO (Olive-Oil) stimulates a massive production of bile, which floods into the intestines. (There have been plenty of mainstream medical papers written showing that olive and other oils do stimulate bile production.)
If I am correct, the normal biochemical balance of the intestines would be upset by the flood of bile and that is how I think the stones are formed.
So I think the liver flush benefits come from the cholesterol lowering effects of the production and expulsion of large amounts of bile.
I'll be happy to continue this discussion but it wont be for a few days as I'm packing for a trip.
More
- Re: Hi Mr Cooties #21219
20 y
2,093
This is a reply to # 412,513Mr C? Wrong again Sherlock!
>The main reason that I dont think that the "stones" that come from a Liver Flush originate in the gall bladder is the simple fact that it isn't big enough to contain the sort of volumes that are reported here.
I agree with you - that the gallbladder is tiny, and that the amount of stones some people get is far from tiny. Having said that the (small) amount of stones I got per flush is consistent with them having come from my gallbladder.
>Yes, bile flowing into the small intestine is a normal part of digestion, but what I think happens is that the injestion of the large amount of OO (Olive-Oil) stimulates a massive production of bile, which floods into the intestines. (There have been plenty of mainstream medical papers written showing that olive and other oils do stimulate bile production.)
Err - you don't need to read a medical paper to know that oils stimulate bile production. That is basic digestive function 101! The whole point of bile is to emulsify oils, thus giving them a greater surface area for lipase to act on.
>If I am correct, the normal biochemical balance of the intestines would be upset by the flood of bile and that is how I think the stones are formed.
Bile is part of the normal biochemical balance of the intestines. It is released every time we have a meal containing fats (i.e. most meals). Amongst other things bile helps to keep the small intestine free of bacterial overgrowth.
>So I think the Liver Flush benefits come from the cholesterol lowering effects of the production and expulsion of large amounts of bile.
Yes - I would agree here.
You still haven't explained how stones are formed though, other than by suggesting that a large amount of bile in the intestines suddenly wills them into existence.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
Mr C? Wrong again.
>The main reason that I dont think that the "stones" that come from a Liver Flush originate in the gall bladder is the simple fact that it isn't big enough to contain the sort of volumes that are reported here.
I agree with you - that the gallbladder is tiny, and that the amount of stones some people get is far from tiny. Having said that the (small) amount of stones I got per flush is consistent with them having come from my gallbladder.
>Yes, bile flowing into the small intestine is a normal part of digestion, but what I think happens is that the injestion of the large amount of OO (Olive-Oil) stimulates a massive production of bile, which floods into the intestines. (There have been plenty of mainstream medical papers written showing that olive and other oils do stimulate bile production.)
Err - you don't need to read a medical paper to know that oils stimulate bile production. That is basic digestive function 101! The whole point of bile is to emulsify oils, thus giving them a greater surface area for lipase to act on.
>If I am correct, the normal biochemical balance of the intestines would be upset by the flood of bile and that is how I think the stones are formed.
Bile is part of the normal biochemical balance of the intestines. It is released every time we have a meal containing fats (i.e. most meals). Amongst other things bile helps to keep the small intestine free of bacterial overgrowth.
>So I think the liver flush benefits come from the cholesterol lowering effects of the production and expulsion of large amounts of bile.
Yes - I would agree here.
You still haven't explained how stones are formed though, other than by suggesting that a large amount of bile in the intestines suddenly wills them into existence.
More
- Sorry Mai Li
20 y
2,104
This is a reply to # 412,514Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Just looked in before going off.
Thought you were Mr C because of that duplicate post. My apologies.
I dont know how the stones are formed in the intestines, if indeed they are. It is only a theory right now, but I've discussed it with several medical people and none - so far - have pooh poohed it.
I'm hoping to persuade someone to do some serious work on it, including trials, but there are problems over that. It's not a long story, but one where I would need to choose my words carefully, to avoid misunderstandings. No time for that now. Must go.- Re: Sorry #21219
20 y
2,132
This is a reply to # 412,515Apparently you missed your train and have 3 hours to kill ... so go ahead ...
>It is only a theory right now, but I've discussed it with several medical people and none - so far - have pooh poohed it.
I can disprove your theory pretty easily - whilst also showing that the stones are pre-formed. Basically it involves flushing with no prep, and then flushing after prep. work. There is a huge difference in results.
> I'm hoping to persuade someone to do some serious work on it, including trials, but there are problems over that. It's not a long story, but one where I would need to choose my words carefully, to avoid misunderstandings.
I'm all ears.- Seems like they didn't like our disc... Mai Li
20 y
2,094
This is a reply to # 412,516I did respond to your post in another forum but then realized that it was off subject and I didn't want to hijack the thread.
IMO you actually have more potential risk of harm with not doing the flush. A flush is designed to flush stones out, by reducing the size of the stones, relaxing the ducts, lubing the pathway, and mechanically flushing the stones out... seems like the body's natural slower action would more likely get the stone stuck.
I have never heard of a stone getting stuck during a flush. I suppose it could happen, but the chances are so small that I wouldn't even worry about it. Even if a stone were to get stuck, wouldn't you rather have it happen at your chosen time and convenience instead of having a "ticking time bomb" that could happen at a very bad moment (airplane, car trip, vacation), where you would be forced to go to the emergency room and have no choice but to have surgery? I don't think the emergency room will give you Epsom Salts and olive oil - they will probably only have one option - surgery and/or remove the gallbladder! Scars, one less organ, and ($14,000?) in bills, when a simple second flush could have taken care of a possible stuck stone. Surgeries should be done as a very last resort, but doctors will not perform a Liver Flush on you in the hospital to try to avoid a surgery. Not to mention all the problems you will have for the rest of your life because you will have no gallbladder.
The longer you wait, the larger your stones can be growing, and more stones can be forming *because of that stone". Better sooner than later to take action. Sometimes over-analyzing just complicates things, causes confusion, wastes time and arouses unfounded fear. I don't mean to discredit your opinion but I do think you should listen to all of the real world experiences and successes here from people on Curezone doing the flush. Studies and theories and experts are all biased or conflicting. Real world testimonials hold much more credibility for me, especially for something that is not marketed or sold! Liver flushers are much less biased or apt to have a conflict of interest - they are not trying to sell you olive oil/apple juice/ Epsom Salts .
We are talking about something that is basically *free* (ok maybe $5 of juice/epsom/OO). The fact that this is a *free* remedy, encouraged by so many, with so many successes, and no reported stuck stones from a flush (that I know of) makes it a no brainer to try. The Liver Flush is so successful that some people try to "market" it by changing it a bit to sell a book on flushing or a supplement designed to "help" the flush. This is all marketing designed to seperate you from your money. A doctor will tell you to remove your gallbladder because he (directly or indirectly) wants your $14,000 and has not the time nor the desire to guide you through alternatives.
I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries.
Well that was a lot more than my original post.
I do wish you well! Please try the flush so you can get better, and so I can say "I told you so!" ;)
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
I did respond to your post in another forum but then realized that it was off subject and I didn't want to hijack the thread.
IMO you actually have more potential risk of harm with not doing the flush. A flush is *designed* to flush stones out, by reducing the size of the stones, relaxing the ducts, lubing the pathway, and mechanically flushing the stones out...
I have never heard of a stone getting stuck during a flush. I suppose it could happen, but the chances are so small that you shouldn't even worry about it. Even if a stone were to get stuck, wouldn't you rather have it happen at your chosen time and convenience instead of having a "ticking time bomb" that could happen at a very bad moment (airplane, car trip, vacation), where you would be forced to go to the emergency room and have no choice but to have surgery? I don't think the emergency room will give you Epsom Salts and olive oil - they will probably only have one option - surgery and/or remove the gallbladder! Scars, one less organ, and ($14,000?) in bills, when a simple second flush could have taken care of a possible stuck stone. Surgeries should be done as a very last resort, but doctors will not perform a Liver Flush on you in the hospital to try to avoid a surgery. Not to mention all the problems you will have for the rest of your life because you will have no gallbladder.
The longer you wait, the larger your stones can be growing, and more stones can be forming *because of that stone". Better sooner than later to take action. Sometimes over-analyzing just complicates things, causes confusion, wastes time and arouses unfounded fear. I don't mean to discredit your opinion but I do think you should listen to all of the real world experiences and successes here from people on Curezone doing the flush. Studies and theories and experts are all biased and there is always a conflicting opinion. Real world testimonials hold much more credibility for me, especially for something that is not marketed or sold! Liver flushers are much less biased or apt to have a conflict of interest - they are not trying to sell you olive oil/apple juice/epsom salts.
We are talking about something that is basically *free* (ok maybe $5 of juice/epsom/OO). The fact that this is a *free* remedy, encouraged by so many, with so many successes, and no reported stuck stones from a flush (that I know of) makes it a no brainer to try. The Liver Flush is so successful that some people try to "market" it by changing it a bit to sell a book on flushing or a supplement designed to "help" the flush. This is all marketing designed to seperate you from your money. A doctor will tell you to remove your gallbladder because he (directly or indirectly) wants your $14,000.
I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush
and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Remember - fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries.
Well that was a lot more than my original post.
I do wish you well! Please try the flush so I can say "I told you so!" ;o)
Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- To Mai Li .. #21219
20 y
2,130
This is a reply to # 412,518You asked "I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries."
My fear came from my own logic ie. that the bile duct is very small and some of the stones I saw - though by no means huge - looked too big to pass
No doctor warned me. I am fortunate in living in a country where "cut" is NOT the usual response to a diagnosis of gallstones.
It was never mentioned when mine were diagnosed, I was given a prescription to "dissolve" them.
Having a reluctance to take any drugs, unless driven to it by desperation, I still wanted to find an alternative.
That weekend we went to our boat and I had another ghastly attack. On the Sunday, I went to the local street market and there was a guy selling a herbal remedy that he claimed reduced cholesterol and was good for all sorts of things. As he was 80 and looked about 55, I figured it was worth a try and bought a pile.
I drink a big bowlfull each morning and I have not had a single gall bladder attack since then - well over a year ago. So I think it best to leave well alone. :)
One of these days, I'll get another ultra-sound done and see whether the Gallstones have gone, or the herbs are just controlling the symptoms.- Sure, but some of yesterday's got wi... Mai Li
20 y
2,128
This is a reply to # 412,520maybe this will.
I would be very interested to hear your reasons for being convinced the Liver Flush "stones" are pre-formed.
My own view is that they cant be, because there isn't room for the volumes reported by some.
I did chemistry at university, but never followed it up as a career, since I found something that interested me far more, so I'm very rusty and have no inclination (nor time) to swot up, in order to attempt to make my theory more scientific.
A lot of medical people (who have either done a dgree course that included a speciality in some alternative, or who have open minds towards alternatives) have expressed great interest in the Liver Flush and would like to be able to research it.
They agree that the amounts of oil taken would be likely to produce a very large expulsion of bile from the gall bladder, with resulting cholesterol reducing effects.
There are two reasons for reluctance for some practical research. Those I have spoken to who are in General Practice, would not be able to tell any patient to do a flush, since the practice has never been formally tested and they would be violating the rules that govern their practising medicine.
Those who are researchers would be able to put the Liver-Flush to the test, on volunteers, as happens with new techniques. Their relunctance to do so is mainly down to two words - Hulda Clark .
That name is the one that is most widely known in connection with LF. It is seen as a very bad name, in medical circles over here, not because of the liver flush, but because of the Cure for Aids, Cancer and All Diseases Books.
That is one of the reasons that I view Clark as a major enemy of those who, like me, would like to see the continental style "marriages" of allopathic and alternatives strengthened and spread throughout the world.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
maybe this will.
I would be very interested to hear your reasons for being convinced the Liver Flush "stones" are pre-formed.
My own view is that they cant be, because there isn't room for the volumes reported by some.
I did chemistry at university, but never followed it up as a career, since I found something that interested me far more, so I'm very rusty and have no inclination (nor time) to swot up, in order to attempt to make my theory more scientific.
A lot of medical people (who have either done a dgree course that included a speciality in some alternative, or who have open minds towards alternatives) have expressed great interest in the liver flush and would like to be able to research it.
They agree that the amounts of oil taken would be likely to produce a very large expulsion of bile from the gall bladder, with resulting cholesterol reducing effects.
There are two reasons for reluctance for some practical research. Those I have spoken to who are in General Practice, would not be able to tell any patient to do a flush, since the practice has never been formally tested and they would be violating the rules that govern their practising medicine.
Those who are researchers would be able to put the Liver-Flush to the test, on volunteers, as happens with new techniques. Their relunctance to do so is mainly down to two words - Hulda Clark .
That name is the one that is most widely known in connection with LF. It is seen as a very bad name, in medical circles over here, not because of the liver flush, but because of the Cure for Aids, Cancer and All Diseases Books.
That is one of the reasons that I view Clark as a major enemy of those who, like me, would like to see the continental style "marriages" of allopathic and alternatives spread throughout the world.Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... #21219
20 y
2,077
This is a reply to # 412,521I can't see any missing posts. What do you think is missing??
I come from a scientific background. I am well versed with statistics, proof, experimentation etc.
I have the "Cure for all .." book. I agree it makes very entertaining reading. Its difficult to take someone seriously who refuses to believe in HIV/Aids.
The Zapper stuff is interesting, but without proper testing that kind of device is open to all kinds of claims.
But personally I don't associate the Liver Flush with any one person. Although the flush done here is the "Clark" flush, it doesn't mean that Hulda Clark invented the liver flush.
Indeed Curezone has done far more than Hulda Clark to popularize the liver flush.
The Liver Flush is based on sound physiological and nutritional principles. And it works. There is a sound theoretical basis for it - which I can elaborate on. And now there is even extensive empirical evidence for it - just have a look at the new " Liver Flushing and Science forum". The same old conditions keep on coming up. So clearly Liver Flushing has great curative power for some specific conditions. Conditions which aren't necessarily associated with the liver by standard medicine.
There are many unknown questions. My reasons for why these questions persist is slightly different from yours.
1. The alternative medical community - curezone et al. These guys are suspicious of anything to do with "science" and see science/proof as akin to Big Pharma. People don't understand that Big Pharma isn't about Science - its about capitalism. In fact Big Pharma is more often guilty of bad Science - subverting science for profit. But they can get away with it because their oponents aren't interested in science.
2. The standard medical community - if it isn't a pill, if it can't be patented then they are not interested. At least not officially. Of course you get the odd GP who will discuss these "folk" remedies, but always off the record. When was the last time that free medicine was seriously researched? Hardly ever. Research costs money, so is usually funded by profit-seeking bodies, who naturally seek profitable rememdies. Its a vicious circle.
If the secret of Liver Flushing got out, and it was put on a sound theoretical footing an entire industry (i.e. the gallbladder removal industry) would vanish.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
I can't see any missing posts. What do you think is missing??
I come from a scientific background. I am well versed with statistics, proof, experimentation etc.
I have the "Cure for all .." book. I agree it makes very entertaining reading. Its difficult to take someone seriously who refuses to believe in HIV/Aids.
The Zapper stuff is interesting, but without proper testing that kind of device is open to all kinds of claims.
But personally I don't associate the Liver Flush with any one person. Although the flush done here is the "Clark" flush, it doesn't mean that Hulda Clark invented the liver flush.
Indeed Curezone has done far more than Hulda Clark to popularize the liver flush.
The liver flush is based on sound physiological and nutritional principles. And it works. There is a sound theoretical basis for it - which I can elaborate on. And now there is even extensive empirical evidence for it - just have a look at the new "Liver flushing and science forum". The same old conditions keep on coming up. So clearly liver flushing has great curative power for some specific conditions. Conditions which aren't necessarily associated with the liver by standard medicine.
There are many unknown questions. My reasons for why these questions persist is slightly different from yours.
1. The alternative medical community - curezone et al. These guys are suspicious of anything to do with "science" and see science/proof as akin to Big Pharma. People don't understand that Big Pharma isn't about science - its about capitalism. In fact Big Pharma is more often guilty of bad science - subverting science for profit. But they can get away with it because their oponents aren't interested in science.
2. The standard medical community - if it isn't a pill, if it can't be patented then they are not interested. At least not officially. Of course you get the odd GP who will discuss these "folk" remedies, but always off the record. When was the last time that free medicine was seriously researched? Hardly ever. Research costs money, so is usually funded by profit-seeking bodies, who naturally seek profitable rememdies. Its a viscous circle.
If the secret of liver flushing got out, and it was put on a sound theoretical footing an entire industry (i.e. the gallbladder removal industry) would vanish.
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... Mai LI
20 y
2,077
This is a reply to # 412,522You said "If the secret of Liver Flushing got out, and it was put on a sound theoretical footing an entire industry (i.e. the gallbladder removal industry) would vanish."
I accept that applies in the USA, but it does not apply in France. As I said in my response to Mr Cooties, despite my having severe attacks about 3 times a week and an ultrasound that showed a half full GB, neither my GP nor the specialist ever mentioned removal.
I will read the forum you suggested. Will come back after that. Wont be tonight as the evening is my heavy work load period and tomorrow I'm go away for a couple of days.
Brgds
M
PS. The missing posts were on the new debate forum!
Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... DangerousProduce
20 y
2,103
This is a reply to # 412,522Gallbladder flushing is already on a theoretical footing.
How do you add to your argument by putting the word "sound" as an adjective in front of theoretical footing? If it's a mechanism that defines the two, what is it?
I differ with you on the mentality of those in what you call the alternative community. From reading these message boards and talking with those more experienced in this than myself, I don't see how people who use alternative means are any more or less scientifically interested than those who use only drugs for their diseases.
I have talked to lots of people who use pharmaceutical drugs and don't have any interest even in the Science of what they are doing or Science in general. Just because you use Big Pharma doesn't mean by definition that you are interested in science.
You did not say this exactly, but I assumed that's what you would conclude.
There are plenty of people on both sides, alternative and (non-alternative)in conventional medicine who are not interested in science. It depends on where you are in that particular field, researchers would be much more interested (than the general population). If you are a researcher in the alternative field, then you are very interested in the principles of Science in order to found your work on it. If you are one of many followers of a particular alternative treatment, then usually you want to follow the instructions exactly so that you get a particular result. The same goes for people following a pharmaceutical regimen. Neither group is that interested in reading about the scientific prinicples upon which their treatment is based. Why they trust it has a lot do with how famililar they are with that particular method, whatever it is.
It would be interesting to read if any study(s) was done to see
who is more opposed to science/proof, the alternative community or the conventional medicine community. And from what data the conclusion was determined. Outside of that I don't see how you can say those using, or proving, alternative treatments are more opposed to reading about scientific proof than those who don't (use alternative treatments).- I dont understand Mai LI
20 y
2,006
This is a reply to # 412,525You said "Outside of that I don't see how you can say those using, or proving, alternative treatments are more opposed to reading about scientific proof than those who don't (use alternative treatments)."
I've never said that.
- Re:was responding to 21219's comment... DangerousProduce
20 y
2,032
This is a reply to # 412,527Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
The comment that you quoted, I made in reply to another person, not to one of your posts. It was in reply to basically the second sentence ("These guys are suspicious....")in the paragraph below, posted by 21219.
"1. The alternative medical community - curezone et al. These guys are suspicious of anything to do with "science" and see science/proof as akin to Big Pharma. People don't understand that Big Pharma isn't about Science - its about capitalism. In fact Big Pharma is more often guilty of bad Science - subverting Science for profit. But they can get away with it because their oponents aren't interested in science."
- Re:was responding to 21219's comment... DangerousProduce
20 y
2,032
- In *English* please ... n/m #21219 20 y 1,861
- I dont understand Mai LI
20 y
2,006
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... Mai LI
20 y
2,077
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... DangerousProduce
20 y
2,586
RN
This is a reply to # 412,521I agree about the low probability that pre-formed stones exist as we know them, in high quantity, in the liver due to the space available. However, it may not be a situation of either all one or the other. It is possible some stones may be pre-formed before the flush, while others are waiting for the flush, in order to be drawn out and be formed.
I don't agree, however, with the reasoning that if you don't like the scientist then that's a valid reason not to test the theories of that scientist.
The character/intelligence quotient (I.Q.)/moral courage or motivation of that scientist is not being tested here. What is being tested are the scientific underpinnings of the Liver Flush and its role in forming the stones.
Those who are researchers, supposedly in the alternative field, who could test the Liver Flush on volunteers can't do it because Hulda Clark has a bad name. Well, did they hear she has a bad name from their friends? Or did they decide for themselves that she is a bad name after they read her lengthly books on her research? Or both possibilities?
And none of their fellow researchers has a bad name? How does one get a bad name? Do you stop reading that researcher's work because now he has a bad name? Does it depend on how closely that researcher's work is related to yours whether you consider it bad or even read it? Would you try to influence that researcher's work if word got out that it contradicted your work? What if you couldn't get the researcher to change his mind, what do you do then? Do you start name-calling as in .. Hulda Clark is a very bad name..? Are you hoping the name-calling will catch on, perhaps?
It was sort of enlightening to read that you perceive the reason for the very bad name to be "not because of the liver flush, but because of the Cure for Aids, Cancer and All Diseases Books" Hulda Clark wrote. This latter part is why Hulda Clark has a bad name in medical circles in France you say, and her writing of many books directly prevents researchers in medical circles from testing her Liver Flush theory, or someone else's, on volunteers.
You mean if she wrote less books, then it would be O.K. to test the liver flush theory? You mean after those researchers in the medical circles you are talking about, read all Hulda Clark's books, then they no longer were able to test the liver flush theory on volunteers?
Well, why?
Thousands and thousands of scientists have developed and tested theories that others call over-reaching or theorizing beyond the data or too general in parts, perhaps. But why should that stop a group of reasearchers in medical circles in France from putting part of that (over-reaching) theory to a test on volunteers? It does not make sense.
What would make sense is if, during the test on volunteers, the researchers found out something that contradicted a previous belief(s). People are not anxious to find that out and they protect themselves from it. The easiest way is to continually find reasons why you cannot run the liver flush test on volunteers. All the while maintaining that some aspect interests you. If a researcher in the medical circles, in France, can see ahead of time that if he runs the liver flush test (or any test)
then some of his previous results are going to be cast into doubt, how motivated (emotionally or morally) is he going to be to do the liver flush test? Why not find a scapegoat and blame it on someone else, like Hulda Clark, and not do the flush test? That's the easy way out. But not scientific.
You protest over and over in your posts that you are honestly interested in scientifically determining some aspects of it (liver flush), but you associate with researchers in medical circles who have delayed the scientific investigation you want based on invalid reasons. And you agree with their invalid reasons. This common situation reminds me of the old adage, "Birds of a feather, flock together."
Because the status quo, in France or anywhere, can take a very long time to do something, I hope you live long enough.- Dont shoot the messenger! Mai LI
20 y
2,068
This is a reply to # 412,524Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
This is a quick reply. Need to go to bed as I'm off on a trip early tomorrow, but didn't want you to think I was avoiding replying.
Hulda Clark is not viewed as a researcher, since none of her work has EVER been peer reviewed, which (for obvious reasons)is a universally accepted requirement of research.
I am not, incidentally, just speaking of French views, but Italian, German and Dutch also.
Happy to enlarge when I return.
- Re: Dont shoot the messenger! DangerousProduce
20 y
2,150
This is a reply to # 412,526"Not viewed as a researcher." I read as far as that on your comment on Dr. Clark. Your circle of reference must be the circle of acquaintances in the medical field with whom you are endeavoring to discuss/start your Liver Flush project. Is the only way to get that project started is to have to agree on their evaluation of Dr. Clark's work? (I am wondering about the peer pressure factor.)
I do not share their opinion on Clark's work nor your emotional connection with them, however it may be. I would ask them to see what the definition of "researcher" was in the French dictionary. It's not that different any place else.
- Re: Dont shoot the messenger! DangerousProduce
20 y
2,150
- Dont shoot the messenger! Mai LI
20 y
2,068
- Re: Sure, but some of yesterday's go... #21219
20 y
2,077
- Sure, but some of yesterday's got wi... Mai Li
20 y
2,128
- To Mai Li .. #21219
20 y
2,130
- Seems like they didn't like our disc... Mai Li
20 y
2,094
- Re: Sorry dci hall
19 y
2,005
This is a reply to # 412,515I have several ideas for research into this issue. whether or not people would volunteer for such research is a different matter since the research might have results they did not like.
- Re: Sorry #21219
20 y
2,132
- Sorry Mai Li
20 y
2,104
- Sorry about that Mai MrCooties
20 y
2,085
This is a reply to # 412,513I did respond to your post in another forum but then realized that it was off subject and I didn't want to hijack the thread.
IMO you actually have more potential risk of harm with not doing the flush. A flush is designed to flush stones out, by reducing the size of the stones, relaxing the ducts, lubing the pathway, and mechanically flushing the stones out... seems like the body's natural slower action would more likely get the stone stuck.
I have never heard of a stone getting stuck during a flush. I suppose it could happen, but the chances are so small that I wouldn't even worry about it. Even if a stone were to get stuck, wouldn't you rather have it happen at your chosen time and convenience instead of having a "ticking time bomb" that could happen at a very bad moment (airplane, car trip, vacation), where you would be forced to go to the emergency room and have no choice but to have surgery? I don't think the emergency room will give you Epsom Salts and olive oil - they will probably only have one option - surgery and/or remove the gallbladder! Scars, one less organ, and ($14,000?) in bills, when a simple second flush could have taken care of a possible stuck stone. Surgeries should be done as a very last resort, but doctors will not perform a Liver Flush on you in the hospital to try to avoid a surgery. Not to mention all the problems you will have for the rest of your life because you will have no gallbladder.
The longer you wait, the larger your stones can be growing, and more stones can be forming *because of that stone". Better sooner than later to take action. Sometimes over-analyzing just complicates things, causes confusion, wastes time and arouses unfounded fear. I don't mean to discredit your opinion but I do think you should listen to all of the real world experiences and successes here from people on Curezone doing the flush. Studies and theories and experts are all biased or conflicting. Real world testimonials hold much more credibility for me, especially for something that is not marketed or sold! Liver flushers are much less biased or apt to have a conflict of interest - they are not trying to sell you olive oil/apple juice/ Epsom Salts .
We are talking about something that is basically *free* (ok maybe $5 of juice/epsom/OO). The fact that this is a *free* remedy, encouraged by so many, with so many successes, and no reported stuck stones from a flush (that I know of) makes it a no brainer to try. The Liver Flush is so successful that some people try to "market" it by changing it a bit to sell a book on flushing or a supplement designed to "help" the flush. This is all marketing designed to seperate you from your money. A doctor will tell you to remove your gallbladder because he (directly or indirectly) wants your $14,000 and has not the time nor the desire to guide you through alternatives.
I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries.
Well that was a lot more than my original post.
I do wish you well! Please try the flush so you can get better, and so I can say "I told you so!" ;)
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
I did respond to your post in another forum but then realized that it was off subject and I didn't want to hijack the thread.
IMO you actually have more potential risk of harm with not doing the flush. A flush is *designed* to flush stones out, by reducing the size of the stones, relaxing the ducts, lubing the pathway, and mechanically flushing the stones out...
I have never heard of a stone getting stuck during a flush. I suppose it could happen, but the chances are so small that you shouldn't even worry about it. Even if a stone were to get stuck, wouldn't you rather have it happen at your chosen time and convenience instead of having a "ticking time bomb" that could happen at a very bad moment (airplane, car trip, vacation), where you would be forced to go to the emergency room and have no choice but to have surgery? I don't think the emergency room will give you Epsom Salts and olive oil - they will probably only have one option - surgery and/or remove the gallbladder! Scars, one less organ, and ($14,000?) in bills, when a simple second flush could have taken care of a possible stuck stone. Surgeries should be done as a very last resort, but doctors will not perform a Liver Flush on you in the hospital to try to avoid a surgery. Not to mention all the problems you will have for the rest of your life because you will have no gallbladder.
The longer you wait, the larger your stones can be growing, and more stones can be forming *because of that stone". Better sooner than later to take action. Sometimes over-analyzing just complicates things, causes confusion, wastes time and arouses unfounded fear. I don't mean to discredit your opinion but I do think you should listen to all of the real world experiences and successes here from people on Curezone doing the flush. Studies and theories and experts are all biased and there is always a conflicting opinion. Real world testimonials hold much more credibility for me, especially for something that is not marketed or sold! Liver flushers are much less biased or apt to have a conflict of interest - they are not trying to sell you olive oil/apple juice/epsom salts.
We are talking about something that is basically *free* (ok maybe $5 of juice/epsom/OO). The fact that this is a *free* remedy, encouraged by so many, with so many successes, and no reported stuck stones from a flush (that I know of) makes it a no brainer to try. The Liver Flush is so successful that some people try to "market" it by changing it a bit to sell a book on flushing or a supplement designed to "help" the flush. This is all marketing designed to seperate you from your money. A doctor will tell you to remove your gallbladder because he (directly or indirectly) wants your $14,000.
I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush
and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Remember - fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries.
Well that was a lot more than my original post.
I do wish you well! Please try the flush so I can say "I told you so!" ;o)
Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- That's OK Cooty Mai Li
20 y
2,039
This is a reply to # 412,517You asked "I am curious to learn where you developed your fear of the flush and a stuck stone. Did a doctor warn you? Fear is a very effective tool for marketing things, like surgeries."
My fear came from my own logic ie. that the bile duct is very small and some of the stones I saw - though by no means huge - looked too big to pass
No doctor warned me. I am fortunate in living in a country where "cut" is NOT the usual response to a diagnosis of gallstones.
It was never mentioned when mine were diagnosed, I was given a prescription to "dissolve" them.
Having a reluctance to take any drugs, unless driven to it by desperation, I still wanted to find an alternative.
That weekend we went to our boat and I had another ghastly attack. On the Sunday, I went to the local street market and there was a guy selling a herbal remedy that he claimed reduced cholesterol and was good for all sorts of things. As he was 80 and looked about 55, I figured it was worth a try and bought a pile.
I drink a big bowlfull each morning and I have not had a single gall bladder attack since then - well over a year ago. So I think it best to leave well alone. :)
One of these days, I'll get another ultra-sound done and see whether the Gallstones have gone, or the herbs are just controlling the symptoms.
- That's OK Cooty Mai Li
20 y
2,039
- Re: Hi Mr Cooties #21219
20 y
2,093
- Hi Mr Cooties Mai Li
20 y
2,197
Share:
Translate This Page: