The soul and the body - two separate... 
chrissy11
20 y
3,515
Some thoughts that I've have been knocking around: as Socrates made the very logical point that things that originate from our soul, goodness, virtue, wisdom, cannot be seen, is it not possible that this thing, the soul, exists but cannot be seen? Taking it a bit further, could our "soul" be a being that each body possesses, like (excuse the crude comparison, I do not mean it as an insult) a parasite and our bodies the hosts? Through doing good we "feed" this soul and it grows. By ignoring the quiet call of the soul to do good we starve this being and it shrivels and withers? Going even further, as a fruit ripens and falls off the vine, could our soul ripen to the point that it won't ripen anymore and that is the moment that we are "plucked from the vine"? This thought, as outlandish as it sounds, gives me solace when I think of people who died "before their time". Perhaps they died exactly when they were at their ripest, and had they lived longer, would have lost their sweet ripeness?
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,161
This is a reply to # 273,601That is a great thought for the guy who got drunk and on his way home missed the curve and was thrown out and killed in a one car rollover. God doesn't care how or when we die. Only how we live. Some people are taken early in life to fulfill eaternal callings in heaven and some peoples lives are preserved to fulfill calling here on earth. I gain consolation knowing that if the person lived a good life here on earth he or she is in a good place in heaven.
- Since this is the debate forum... chrissy11
20 y
3,398
This is a reply to # 273,607I agree with your quote, "As we go through lifes experiences and we deal with them in a way that would please God, Our soul gets stronger. When we die our spirit leaves our body so our body dies. Our spirits return to God who gave it life." However, I do not agree that God is not interested in when we die. "How" might not interest Him, but "when" is certainly of utmost importance if His whole purpose for us in the first place is for us to have "Our souls get stronger", as you say. Our free will which allows us to choose to do good is His goal, I think. Of course He wishes us to choose what is good (I'm not going to squabble over definitions of good, we have to take some things for granted), yet is it not possible that someone's "goodness" could become corrupted and therefore their soul becomes weaker as times goes on?
Take for example a child suffering from no deficiencies in health, family, etc. His life is quite fine. He is struck by a car that veered off the pavement and he dies. Though we'd never know, could this have been a plan all along? Could not this child have reached the peak of his spiritual growth ("he was such a sweet child", "it's such a loss", and all the other things you seem to hear more often when a child dies) and his life was to be in a downward trend until he eventually died? This is all conjuecture and my own thoughts, but if God's purpose for us is to grow spiritually, wouldn't it make sense to cull the herd? Isn't this what any sensible shepard who wants to maintain and improve the health of his flock does?
- Re: Since this is the debate forum..... #68716
20 y
3,210
MoreThis is a reply to # 273,609Think of this life, as nothing but the blinking of an eye, compared to the one which is eternal. The one which is eternal will have no pain, blood, hurting, sadness-not one negative atom.
If God has it designed that certain events will take place, which we have really no say in the matter,then it is His Eternal Wisdom.( which we can't understand fully with our limited brains)
How can we challenge this plan?
I agree with you!
- Re: Since this is the debate forum..... swing71
20 y
3,208
This is a reply to # 273,609God said, My way are not your way and your ways are not my ways, Here it is,
"My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
God know the whole plan. He is over all but he also allows us to have our free agency and he allows us to suffer the consequences of our choices. For example the guy who gets drunk and runs off the road is ejected and killed in a one car rollover. Surely God could have prevented that. The innocent child getting killed while walking down the road by a hit and run driver. The Mother dying during child birth leave a Father with several small children. God could have prevented all of these tragedies. However, God allows nature to takes it's course. At times he does preserve lives of those who's missions are complete.
For me, I don't question why God did this or that. I determine to follow His teaching and know that if I follow His commandments and endure to the end all will be well. It is just to hard to question and implicate God in every Death and War and trajedy. For me, I believe man brings upon himself many of these trials. That is why I said, God does not care whether we live or die, just how we live. Of course he cares. He is all loving. He possesses all there is of every good trait. But, How many times have you seen a death in a family and that death bring that family closer together and perhaps more spiritual and cause them to turn to God and potentually gain eternal life instead of Eternal Damnation if they would have stayed on the path they were taking. I've seen this happen before. I have seen the death of a family member draw that family together and strenghen them. that is the reason for my statement. We know if we live right it will be OK in the end. Whether the end comes early of later.
- Re: Since this is the debate forum..... #68716
20 y
3,197
This is a reply to # 273,611Agree.
We have free will, but that free will-God already know what we will choose, since He is All seeing, All powerful, The Most Wise, the Just, the Merciful- All knowing, all Hearing, the Redeemer, The Planner, The King of Kings. - Re: I do question why chrissy11
20 y
3,429
This is a reply to # 273,611I believe that asking why is at the heart of what makes man so unique. One could follow God blindly but the person who asks why and finds some answers invariably finds him or herself more strongly tied to God and His will. After thinking about it again, perhaps, as several of you have said that it is all part of His plan, and that plan is far too complicated and intricate for me to understand. But that doesn't mean I won't try.
- Re: Since this is the debate forum..... #68716
20 y
3,197
- Re: Since this is the debate forum..... #68716
20 y
3,210
- Since this is the debate forum... chrissy11
20 y
3,398
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,236
This is a reply to # 273,601By the way, the definition of the soul is the spirit and the body combined are the soul of man.
(Gen. 2:7)
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The breath of life means that Adam spirit came down from heaven and entered into the Body that God created for him.
Ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.
"persuasion . . . long-suffering . . . gentleness . . . meekness . . . love un-feigned . . . kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile"
As we go through lifes experiences and we deal with them in a way that would please God, Our soul gets stronger. When we die our spirit leaves our body so our body dies. Our spirits return to God who gave it life.
Befroe we were born and our spirits entered into our bodies, our spirits lived with God in Heaven.
(Heb. 12:9)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
(Acts 17:29)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7.)
Someone referred to life on earth as a journey and to death as a return home. Whether or not this someone was familiar with Holy Writ, he or she had it right. We are the spirit children of God, and we are members of his family. We have been sent to earth for the purpose of obtaining physical bodies, gaining experiences, and proving ourselves under the tutelage of parents and within the framework of a family unit (see Abraham 3:24-26). One day, however, all of us will die or experience a separation of our bodies and spirits, and our spirits will be "taken home to that God who gave them life". The bitterness or sweetness of such return will be determined by our closeness to God, our acquisition of Christ-like virtues, and our faithfulness to family.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Eulypian
20 y
3,349
This is a reply to # 273,608The Bible you quote was written by men after they burned the largest library in the world (the Alexandrian Library). I have a hard time taking the word of men who burn books. That Bible has been changed many times since then, also by men. There are many profound things put into that Bible, the best taken from many sources at the time, but it is also filled with politics, and those politics are far below the Word of God as shown by the messages in the book being a source of confusion for centuries, causing murder and mayhem all over the planet, continuing to this very day as GW Bush bombs innocent people because of his religious interpretation of the Bible.
God speaks clearly causing no confusion whatsoever. There are many "channeled" books that seem to be more coherent and whose "channeled" nature indicate them to be "from the heavens" unlike the Bible's need for continued corrections and reinterpretations. Two I'd recommend to all Bible readers are The Oahspe and The Nature of Personal Reality. Both speak in a way that make themselves perfectly clear to a child. And both clearly define the body and the soul, and their relationship.
Eulypian
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,167
This is a reply to # 273,612How did The Oahspe and The Nature of Personal Reality come into existance. Did God or an angel diliver it to a man here on earth already written. Where did it come from. Or Who did it come from.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Eulypian
20 y
3,218
This is a reply to # 273,617Google will help you with questions about how they were written. What the books say is something you'll have to find out by reading them. Both books explain spirituality in great detail, as well as the liberty granted to us all to become Creators of worlds.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Eulypian
20 y
3,218
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,167
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,292
MoreThis is a reply to # 273,608Chrissy 11, You can understand his plan for you. You can pray to him and ask him questions concerning you and your loved ones. I was referring to his whole Plan. His plan is easy to understand.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Eulypian
20 y
3,349
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Jualsy
20 y
3,315
This is a reply to # 273,601If you can accept the Bible's definition on things it would appear that the soul and the body are the same thing............the soul can die, as it says in many places in the bible, so as the body dies, so does the soul of the person...."Poor Soul" means the person, doesn't it? The soul is not immortal....nowhere in the Bible are the two words linked. Soul appears many many times, and immortal about 4 times, but they are never together. So the soul dies when the body dies.
Death is the payment of sin, not pre determined, nor predestined, but just in the natural course of things, the payment of sin. Once dead, the hope of the resurrection clicks in and the chance to live forever, ruled over by an immortal heavenly government.
Death is not so unbearable when you think that the next thing you will know is waking up again with the chance to start all over!
Check all this in your Bible. It is the only authority that is reliable......God's Word!
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- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... Jualsy
20 y
3,297
This is a reply to # 273,601If you can accept the Bible's definition on things it would appear that the soul and the body are the same thing............the soul can die, as it says in many places in the bible, so as the body dies, so does the soul of the person...."Poor Soul" means the person, doesn't it? The soul is not immortal....nowhere in the Bible are the two words linked. Soul appears many many times, and immortal about 4 times, but they are never together. So the soul dies when the body dies.
Death is the payment of sin, not pre determined, nor predestined, but just in the natural course of things, the payment of sin. Once dead, the hope of the resurrection clicks in and the chance to live forever, ruled over by an immortal heavenly government.
Death is not so unbearable when you think that the next thing you will know is waking up again with the chance to start all over!
Check all this in your Bible. It is the only authority that is reliable......God's Word!
More
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,275
This is a reply to # 273,619By the way, the definition of the soul is the spirit and the body combined are the soul of man.
(Gen. 2:7)
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The breath of life means that Adam spirit came down from heaven and entered into the Body that God created for him.
Ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.
"persuasion . . . long-suffering . . . gentleness . . . meekness . . . love un-feigned . . . kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile"
As we go through lifes experiences and we deal with them in a way that would please God, Our soul gets stronger. When we die our spirit leaves our body so our body dies. Our spirits return to God who gave it life.
Befroe we were born and our spirits entered into our bodies, our spirits lived with God in Heaven.
(Heb. 12:9)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
(Acts 17:29)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7.)
Someone referred to life on earth as a journey and to death as a return home. Whether or not this someone was familiar with Holy Writ, he or she had it right. We are the spirit children of God, and we are members of his family. We have been sent to earth for the purpose of obtaining physical bodies, gaining experiences, and proving ourselves under the tutelage of parents and within the framework of a family unit (see Abraham 3:24-26). One day, however, all of us will die or experience a separation of our bodies and spirits, and our spirits will be "taken home to that God who gave them life". The bitterness or sweetness of such return will be determined by our closeness to God, our acquisition of Christ-like virtues, and our faithfulness to family.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,275
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... bennybork
20 y
3,146
This is a reply to # 273,601what about the ideas of Sokrates and Plato that we (human beeings) do not posess soul but actually "are" soul?
I remember when I was a child, I tried to imagine what that "soul" is. I was taught a picture, that when I die, I will lay down and be burried, and "my soul" is going up somewhere else.
That was the old picture.
Later I learned that when I die, I (soul) will go up to the invisible worlds (or inner worlds or heaven or however one willl name it), and my body is laying down and will be burried.
By changing this picture, this understanding, something was different from than on.
It responds to the words "man was made soul" .
I am soul. I have a body - not the other way round
Soul exists because God loves it.
What do you think about that? Does it sound strange or does it sound understandable?
(I hope, my English is correct enough to be understood by native speakers)
With love, Benny
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... chrissy11
20 y
4,075
This is a reply to # 273,627I think that is certainly a clear way of seeing things. If God does indeed exist as simply "spirit", this makes your idea that much more plausible. In this regard, he is indeed soul without body. We are told that no body exists without a soul, so apparently soul can exist without a body but a body cannot exist without a soul. Is this what you are saying?
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... bennybork
20 y
3,506
This is a reply to # 273,628Hi Chrissy11,
thank you for responding.
You wrote
" ... so apparently soul can exist without a body but a body cannot exist without a soul. Is this what you are saying?"
Yes, thats how I see things, . . . whereas there are sometimes "bodies" who act as if they were machines without soul, isn´t it?
I don´t know if that state of existance would work for a longer time, because soul is actually the "driver of the car".
So the car (body) could run for a while, but without driver (soul) it would crash into some wall or something.
In another letter you wrote recently:
"Through doing good we "feed" this soul and it grows."
I agree.
Only I woul say: the "we" (means: the individual) "is" soul. It is soul.
I mean we are soul.
And so I would say : as we "feed " this soul (as we evolve, develope, unfold ourselves) we grow (spiritually).
Thank you for listening.
Benny- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... chrissy11
20 y
3,488
This is a reply to # 273,629There certainly are people who act as though they have no soul. Your analogy of the car driving into a wall fits perfectly with someone who is acting as though they have no soul. They figuratively "crash" into whichever vice or sinful activity it is they are pursuing.
I have to disagree with your statement that "we", the decision making part of our being, is soul, though. I think if the soul were responsible for making all our decisions then we'd be living in a perfect world. This is the separation I am interested in mostly. The body clearly makes many decisions that either "starve or feed" the soul. I don't think the decision itself is made by the soul. I think the body can allow the soul's input into the decision, and an enlightened person hears the soul's recommendations loudest over any earthly desires, but I don't think the soul can override the body without the body allowing it. I think this is the essence of free will. Ideally, we are training our bodies to respond like souls would. Kind of like the soul is the teacher of the body. The student can do as he or she wishes, but a good student listens to the teacher and heeds his advice.
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... bennybork
20 y
3,441
This is a reply to # 273,630Thank you for responding so kindly,
You spoke of the the decision making part of our being.
Do I understand it in the right way, that you consider "we" human beings (maybe animals and plants too) are made of certain "parts" such as
1. Soul
2. body
... or even more?
And that the playing together od all parts make us a whole beeing?
Yes, I can see certain parts, functions, bodies (or call it other names like:
- physical body (the lowest and most gross level - but not to be ignored or belittled)
- emotions (feelings) (invisible like electricity)
- a conglomeration of patterns and stored rememberances (I´m not shure if that´s the right word in English) that organizes our behaviour in unconscious ways
- mental area (thinking, logig)
- intuition (for me the area where the highest or divine communication takes part and flows from there down to the other mentioned areas)
- and then there is above all those lower levels that which I call soul (the driver of the car)
who indeed doesn´t always listen to the divine hints coming to It through all the parts mentioned above.
I mean - when we talk or write about those things it is mostly on the mental plane, using words and expressions. What really counts is the experiance and knowledge by own experiance. I would say the knowing of the heart,
So maybe using words can be like a veil that hides the truth behind it. I always feel a little handicapped when using words.
Maybe it´s the same thing that we all experiance, only name it differently.
So it´s interesting for me listening to you all in this forum and seeing all this wonderful Thought and Ideas being expressed.
Thank you
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... bennybork
20 y
3,441
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... chrissy11
20 y
3,488
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... bennybork
20 y
3,506
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... chrissy11
20 y
4,075
- Re: The soul and the body - two sepa... swing71
20 y
3,161
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