NAR, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley, IHO... 
#160333
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Have you ever wondered what Hindu Gurus, Yoga, Avatar, New Age, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley, IHOP Kansas and many others have in common?!
Come and see for yourself!
See what an insider has to tell you about these movements. This is just shocking!!!
"For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.... And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold." Mt 24
Word of Faith/New Apostolic Reformation = Kundalini Cult?! 3.part from Arve Hama on Vimeo.
- Re: NAR, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley,... #160333
12 y
3,361
This is a reply to # 2,014,684This is what MST has to say about Bill Johnson and Bethel church featured in this video...
"ok, say 20 people come to bethel with various ailments, 10 get healed, but 10 don't. Does this make bethel a false church that is not Spirit filled? Of 20 people that seek healing in a scoffer church, how many do you think will be healed? My guess is zero. Bill Johnson and his wife have ailments that haven't been healed yet. So what? Is bethel one of the most Spirit filled churches in the country? Yes! What church do you attend? Give everybody a chance to nitpick all of the imperfections there. Let everybody pour through every video of every sermon ever given by your pastor and every word he has ever written and see how perfect he and your church come out looking. Bethel is on fire for the Lord, so the lukewarm christian firefighters come out in droves to attempt to put out the fire. You are one such person. Congratulations vektek, you must be very proud of what you are accomplishing for the Kingdom of Heaven."
- Re: NAR, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley,... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,014,692I want to make this clear. My reason for what I have tried to share is not to support anyone's church. I posted what I did about calvinism to make a point about how all of our churches have problems.
My own church (right before I joined...I didn't know anything about it) had a pastor who had an affair with one of the women in the congregation. He was removed and the woman left and the church was then blessed afterwards...but not during.
However, that does not mean that each individual in the church was involved in that sin at that time, just because some were. The sins of some can have an overflow effect on others....this we have seen at times, a domino effect, but it's still an individual thing between them and God. God judges the church as a whole and the individual. Just like He judges nations as a whole and each person. Of course if the whole system is rotten, we know we need out, or we will be judged with it.
It all comes back to holiness, but we don't throw out the Holy with the unholy. If the angels are not going to be removing the tares from the wheat (until the appointed time) to keep from uprooting them, as they grow together, side by side, then we should not either. For it will be God's job to send His angels to do it.
I was just hoping that we would allow for holiness in the forum. Yes, Ed sometimes says things about the bible that is worded in such a way that makes my good-church-going-ears be in pain at times.....but he always corrected what he said to make it clearer and to get us to see his deeper point. (most are not getting the deeper point) Now, whether others believe him or not...perhaps they think he is just learning how to say the right words to soothe us, then that's another issue. That is lack of trust.
I have had this same problem of hearing pain with others who do not come from my same culture, or they are new to christianity, or were not raised with "church" language that I am accustom to.
One of the problems with being in the pew too long is that we only surround ourselves with like minded people. There is very little struggle to learn from. It's a safe cozy feeling to be around your like minded family. Being in the world and even among other christian beliefs, as a christian, is a whole different experience.
I posted that video about John Lennon (further down) because I thought to myself....how lovely. What a lovely job those christians did at rebuking what was incorrect and still showing respect and love for him. The truth was...the Holy Spirit was involved. It did not have to be forced by human will. I would love for the Holy Spirit to teach me to do it that way...however, I was apparently raised like Vektek, to duke it out until the end. ;) So....Come Holy Spirit Come. Bring us Holiness....bring us Peace....and most of all (special thanks to Trust2009) bring us Love. :)
- Re: NAR, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley,... refreshed
12 y
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- The pharisees lacked discernment too... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
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This is a reply to # 2,014,684To group ihop and bethel and every holy living individual disciple of the Lord Jesus who worships there... and of course there are exceptions... to group every indivual and these churches as a whole with these others is just showing how strongly lacking you are in genuine Holy Spirit discernment from the Living God. vektek, you have an illustrious history of coming into threads posting both in the name vektek and in other anonymous names including numbers. How sad that you feel you have to stoop to this level to make it look like your imaginary friends share in your passion to quench and renounce the genuine moves of the holy Spirit (just as the pharisees did)... throwing out the true holy miracles along with the false counterfeits with absolutely no ability to discern between the two. There is no hope of doing this from your flesh which is why you have been so unsuccessful. Without God in us doing this, it can not be done.
edit, sorry it appears this post was made by a deceiving doc, not vektek, though vektek definitely has a history of doing this same thing. It really is difficult to tell the two apart these days, truly two peas in a pod as the saying goes, both with a passion to come against anybody that is genuinely seeking the Lord Jesus with all their hearts, minds, souls and spirits, living holy unto Him.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... #160333
12 y
2,965
MoreThis is a reply to # 2,014,698I can most assuredly tell you with complete honesty that I am NOT Vektek. Just goes to show you what awesome discernment you have, lol.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
12 y
3,220
MoreThis is a reply to # 2,014,700
Whether you are or not, vektek has an established history of doing this, just as chette, doc and other deceivers. Who are you then and why do you find it necessary to hide behind a number? If you really are not vektek, then you seem to be intimately aquainted with her and you, yourself, are hiding behind a number, making you a deceiver as well. It is very hard to tell between vektek and doc since both are so deep in their flesh and so deeply in captivity to enemy oppression. If you are not hiding in fleshly cowardice, but instead have holy courage, then why not come out and say who you are?
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... #160333
12 y
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This is a reply to # 2,014,701We so often hate the personality traits we believe we see in others that are actually our own.
You just seem paranoid now.
EDIT: It is also telling how everyone who ever disagreed with you, you label "a deceiver"--very NAR of you- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
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This is a reply to # 2,014,708The deceivers i was referring to are those who have cowardly snuck into threads under an anonymous names as you, vektek and chette all have done. I have disagreed with true children of God in some areas including both Rainy and Refreshed, but never have i called them deceivers because they absolutely are not. I have always continued to embrace them as daughters of the Living God through His risen Son the Lord Jesus.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
12 y
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- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... thornsandnails
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This is a reply to # 2,014,701Would you please show me the evidence of the history you propose in regards to vektek and number posting
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... #160333
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3,085
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
12 y
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- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... lucidhunt 24/7
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This is a reply to # 2,014,698I’ve been here, cz, for years… I’ve never seen this, all your personal indictments, about vektek. …Vektek is not in the… -- marked Pharisees’ seats of a hypocrite’s actions--…as Christ was FULLY replying regarding their doing to others for greed… that comment was way way way below the belt… this is my public statement of witness, to the best of my abilities, lucidhunt
IMO... playing, slinging mud is the brute swine’s character…they eat/comsume anything anywhere. Get out of the muddy talk in neighborly actions… ~strong mature righteous leaders….JUST DOIT startingoutthegate *lead by example*~ a picture for another to see, in positive actions, … are worth a thousand wordssss…. as I've been taught (and not always done by me)...if you don't have anything good to say about another...say nothing...silent can be golden...as a loud message- too! mysincerebrotherly comment added to this string for whatitsworth, lucidhunt
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
12 y
3,182
This is a reply to # 2,014,722
I’ve been here, cz, for years… I’ve never seen this, all your personal indictments, about vektek...
Oh have you been hear for years and missed all of the vektek / Refreshed battles which vektek started, vektek fighting for the kingdom of unholiness?
Vektek is not in the… -- marked Pharisees’ seats of a hypocrite’s actions--
Actually vektek models the pharisees behavior and unbelief perfectly in her incessant renounciation of many genuinely holy miracles and of many genuinely holy living disciples of the Lord Jesus. Will you do the same? She also rejects the idea that we can live holy unto the Lord, empowered by His holy Spirit. Are you also in alignment with her on this?
IMO... playing, slinging mud is the brute swine’s character...
are you really so blind to the idea that this is what vektek is doing and what she herself initiated? He who has ears to hear let him hear.
Get out of the muddy talk in neighborly actions… ~strong mature righteous leaders….JUST DOIT startingoutthegate *lead by example*~ a picture for another to see, in positive actions, … are worth a thousand wordssss…. as I've been taught (and not always done by me)...if you don't have anything good to say about another...say nothing...
Ok, your words as written are not very clear but i believe i get your point. My Lord Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites, brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs, evil and sons of the devil. Will you accuse the Lord Jesus of mudslinging? Have i called vektek worse? The same Holy Spirit that lives in the Lord Jesus, lives in me and will sometimes lead us to the same if we don't quench Him which those who embrace false doctrines of man wish to do. The Lord Jesus did live by example, but also sometimes by harsh words to the most stiffnecked and stubborn, all as lead by the holy Spirit. Vektek is stiffnecked and stubborn, just like the pharisees. Please don't be deceived as she is. Come out of the camp of the enemy and fight for the kingdom of holiness. I love vektek and i invite her into the same. I would love to see you both in heaven. Reject false doctrines of man, reject your flesh, live by the Holy Spirit holy unto the living Father through His precious Son and i will see you there.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
3,659
This is a reply to # 2,014,727Lucidhunt, don't listen to this MST guy. He's involved with the same beliefs as a dangerous movement trying to take over the church, called the New Apostolic Movement. My words that you read in these threads may sound stronger than you think they should, but it's all because I'm very alarmed by all this and I'm appalled that anyone is falling for it.
What MST says about me are lies. For example this said by him:
"Vektek also rejects the idea that we can live holy unto the Lord, empowered by His holy Spirit. Are you also in alignment with her on this?"
Is an absolute lie and in the thousands of posts I've made on curezone, I've never said anything remotely like this, quite the opposite.
This is a nasty debate, yes. But what is happening in the church is nasty and I want people to be aware of it, so I've been sending out the warnings. Many here don't appreciate the warnings, and don't care to hear them. That concerns me.
I said I was leaving this forum again last night and I am, just wanted to reply to you about all this quickly.- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Rainy.
12 y
2,960
This is a reply to # 2,014,737"This is a nasty debate, yes. But what is happening in the church is nasty and I want people to be aware of it, so I've been sending out the warnings. Many here don't appreciate the warnings, and don't care to hear them. That concerns me."
---------------------------------
Vektek, I really think that Ed, Refreshed and myself all agree that there are nasty things happening in the church. I have also posted things similiar to the video of the OP. I fully agree with Andrew Strom. I really don't think that you have posted anything that would wake the three of us up to this fact. I'm sure we were already aware of this before you came along. The problem with you is that you are trying to get us to deny the real power of God. Everything supernatural is of the devil or the occult in your eyes. Or, we are lying about it in your eyes. I fully agree that the occult has crept in our churches today and we need to be aware of this. That is one reason why I left the churches and now seek God on my own. Many people are faking the supernatural. Others are operating in the occult. Satan is happy to give a gift either to deceive or to those who know they are operating by his power. We do need to be aware of this. I want only the real power of God. I do not want to sit under a minister who is faking it or operating in the occult. Yes, I believe that is going on even as you believe that.
At least the video posted in this thread by Andrew Strom gives a truer picture of what is going on than the ridiculous video that you posted by John MacArthur "The Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in the thread down below. Andrew Strom's video may not be perfect, but it is a good video with a lot of good information in it.
If there are lying signs and wonders, which you obviously are quick to believe in, then there are truthful signs and wonders, which you do not believe in. You believe the devil has more power than God. You believe the devil is doing supernatural things in this world today, but God is not.
The difference between you and Andrew Strom is that he knows that the power of God is real. He believes in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit powered by the Holy Spirit. He admitted that he speaks in tongues. Do you think he is lying about that too? Do you think that he has been given this supernatural manifestation by the devil even as you are thinking such things of me?
You are the one that needs to wake up Vektek! You are giving ridiculous arguments. You are blind to the truth in these matters. Seek the Lord for truth before you try to teach others. Or, at least stick to what you know. You know nothing about the power of God.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
2,986
This is a reply to # 2,014,850You are spreading lies about me now just like MST!
I do not believe you knew about the New Apostalic Reformation before I started bringing the warnings in.
If you did, you have never said anything about it in warnings yourself that I know of. And it should be warned about!!! It is an extremely dangerous movement that is growing enormously as we speak! And after having huge red flags about MST from very early on, I now understand it all completely, where he is getting his deceptions from, who he is being trained by, and it is this New Apostalic Reformation. And take notice, he does not deny this. And how could he, when he says the two most Holy Spirit filled churches in all of the nation are IHOP and Bethal Redding, two of the prominent churches in this movement!
The movement is totally heretical! It is full of the doctrines of demons, and it's taking in young people by the droves as well as people of all ages!
You don't seem to care that MST lines himself up with this movement, but you then want me to be convinced that you are not deceived? Sorry, but I am not convinced whatsoever. I read your praise post to MST over in the personal intimacy forum, and about how the battle going on here is because the devil is mad that MST is seeking God so closely. All the while what he is really doing is trashing me for bringing to light what he is really doing, which is promoting a doctrine of demons! I wish you could wake up, but it doesn't seem to be happening.
I DO NOT deny the power and Holiness of God whatsoever! That is a total lie! What I do deny is the power of a person that is lined up with one of the most heretical movements I've ever seen.
So say what you want about me, I really don't care. Those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, will understand what's happening here.
All this I say to you Refreshed also!
- Vektek
plankton9
12 y
2,939
This is a reply to # 2,014,867I have been here on and off for many years and have seen all kinds of posts and posters on Curezone. I have to say with no intent of malice that you come across as one very angry young woman. For years you have been on the prowl after Refreshed, who has always attempted to keep her calm and respond to you in the most respectful yet firm manner she could possibly muster.
Now you have found MST and you have some fresh prey. I notice that when things get heated enough your husband comes in, fires a few missiles and drops off as quickly as he dropped in. It's funny how sometimes the blood for battle runs so thick that you two will even disagree with each other. I wouldn't want to be a fly on one of your walls.
I think many of us here have felt a little cautious when reading some of the things MTS posts about regarding "Bible idolatry", but at least it comes across that he genuinely wants to seek after God and wants to be a blessing to the body of Christ. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the reason your message is rejected is not so much content, but the bitterness that you use to package it?
God is real - His power is real, and His desire to save and bless mankind will never cease, that would go contrary to His character. Miracles happen, supernatural, explanation defying, stunning occurrences that God brings about... happen. If anyone who claims to be a believer in Christ does not believe that, it is their loss, but I would be very, very worried about going past unbelief (which is in itself a sin) all the way to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is unpardonable sin.- Re: Vektek
#85302
12 y
3,075
This is a reply to # 2,014,882I'm not even going to finish reading this. We are getting ready to leave.
Welcome to the deception club, you'll have lots of friends!
- Re: Vektek
vektek
12 y
2,984
This is a reply to # 2,014,885"For years you have been on the prowl after Refreshed, who has always attempted to keep her calm and respond to you in the most respectful yet firm manner she could possibly muster."
All l have to say to that, is:
lolololololololololololololol
- Re: Vektek
vektek
12 y
2,984
- Re: Vektek
refreshed
12 y
2,947
This is a reply to # 2,014,882Plankton9, thank you. I'm afraid I have lost my temper with vektek, a many of time. I wish I was more innocent. I'm just grateful that God knows me. He knows I have always loved Vektek...He put her in a special place in my heart....as well as Thorn.
However I can't seem to convince vektek that we are all concerned about false teachings and attracting the wrong spirits. I was really hoping for more discussion about how to judge these things and lay off the bashing while we try and find answers, but I think I have decided that we are each going to have to do it for ourselves. As much as I dream of one day being more like-minded with other christians as far as understanding the bible and being guided by the Holy Spirit....I may have to keep on dreaming (better praying) and be patient as we wait for Christ return, to set us all straight.
In the meantime, I have enjoyed meeting Ed and being exposed to his call for holiness. I wish more christians did...but more and more I see disrespect for our Lord and Savoir God...in word and deed.
The word OMG has just about taken over our communications, not to mention the different variations that are too obscene to even mention. Some utterances are more serious than others however.
Mark 3:28“Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—30because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
- Re: Vektek
#85302
12 y
3,075
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Rainy.
12 y
3,173
This is a reply to # 2,014,867Hi Vektek,
"I do not believe you knew about the New Apostalic Reformation before I started bringing the warnings in."
--------------------
You are very correct in that statement and I still do not know about them. I have not even began to read all of these posts on this forum of this hot debate that has been taking place these past few days. I just don't have the time. The truth is I don't care about the New Apostalic Reformation or any other movement. I am looking at the different beliefs and not the movements. If what some of these people in these crazy movements believe is truth than I will agree with that part of the movement even though I don't know about their movements. If some of their beliefs are of the occult than I will not follow that or the movement, but I will believe any truth that they may believe. I do not have time to study movements. I am only interested in truth. I am only interested in seeking the truth as the Bible teaches and that is the true interpretation and not your interpretation. If I think a group is operating in the occult I sure would not go there.
I am not aware of MST being trained by this New Apostalic Reformation any more than I am aware of the movement. I am looking to see if MST lines himself up with truths when it comes to his beliefs. I am glad that he is on a forty day fast to seek the Lord. I am praying that the Lord will magnify his discernment during this time for a reason. I still think he needs more of it. I still think he has more growing in the Lord to do. I don't suppose you got that part when you read my post did you? lol. I get red flags about some things that he does not seem to get red flags about in certain areas. I believe he is sincerely seeking God and a lot harder than I have been, but I still know I must examine everything he says as well as his beliefs. The Bible tells us to do so with all men. I am asking God to show him the truth, especially during this fast. I am asking God to show me that if I am the one that is wrong that He would by the power of His Holy Spirit to show me the truth. I respect MST for seeking God as hard as he is, but on the things I question I must hear from God myself. I have not been trying to point our differences out to him. I am not trying to remove specks from his eyes. He is seeking the Lord so I feel that that is the Lord's job. Yes, I am trying to encourage MST over in the personal intimacy forum on his 40 day fast because I care about him and I want him to be successful in it. By success I mean coming out of it a totally changed man by the power of the Holy Spirit opening his eyes to any deception he may have and blessing him with the gift of discernment and other true gifts of God as never before. I don't know anything about the Bethal Redding Church, but I have heard plenty about IHOP. While I do enjoy some of their music, if what I heard is true, I would never line myself up with that group. The devil is so smart in his deceptions. Doesn't it sound good to start a group that would praise the Lord 24/7. What a great way to get people who are sincerely seeking God to line themselves up with a certain group. Now, after he (the devil) gets these sincere people involved in that wonderful sounding 24/7 praise group, he starts introducing his 1 percent or so lies to deceive them. That small percentage of lies is a deadly poison that destroys people and souls. It makes me wonder if they are really praising the real God 24/7. If they are, how could they be so messed up? The devil is going to make things sound good to us to deceive us. I agree with MST that praising the Lord 24/7 is a good thing, but we need to make sure that if we are involved in a group stating that they are doing this, that it really is worship to our real Lord 24/7. We truly need discernment. Satan is an extremely intelligent being and he is an expert at deception. He will do anything to destroy us. We all need to be on our guard. I do not believe that any of us are above deception and that include me and MST. That even includes you. We must constantly seek God for discernment.
"I DO NOT deny the power and Holiness of God whatsoever!"
Oh really, Vektek. Well you sure have denied the power of God in my life. I know you don't deny the holiness of God. When I tell you about the supernatural in my life you don't believe me. That is denying the power of God. John MacArthur also denied the power of God in that video that you posted, but if I get some time I will listen to it again as you think I did not get the point. I will see if I can get anything else out of it to be fair. Sometimes I need to listen to things more that once.
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
2,948
This is a reply to # 2,014,902
Me saying I don't believe you have the gift of speaking in tongues, does not mean I have denied the power of God.
Me saying I think you are in deception is not denying the power of God either.
Those are ridiculous conclusions.
You say you don't care about movements, but this one, the NAR, is exactly the type warned about in the Bible. Jesus cared about it, so I think we should too.- Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 55 Rainy.
12 y
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- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
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- Vektek
plankton9
12 y
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- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
2,986
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Rainy.
12 y
2,960
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... vektek
12 y
3,659
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... Mighty.Sun.Tzu
12 y
3,182
- Re: The pharisees lacked discernment... #160333
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- Re: NAR, Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley,... #160333
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Expand 15 messages, 41 to 55 of 55 vektek
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