Hi arn.

I believe that you are trying to draw a line under this discussion before moving on but I must take you up on a few points.

You said: "Long fasts result in a reduction in the mass of muscles and other parts of the body, which results in the body becoming weaker. You want maximum strength when an injury is healing."

Your stand is illogical as 1) no-one has specifically advocated a long fast for healing an ankle injury and 2) what is the point of feeding a body that has been immobilised by injury and should be afforded maximum rest and recovery time.

A fast of 1 week might be enough to bring the ankle up to a sufficient standard to begin normal use.

If you had an injury to an intestine, would you still insist on normal food intake even though you (should) know that intestines cannot heal properly with food constantly passing through them. It is well documented in many fasting books that such defects whether self-imposed by unhealthy living or caused by trauma require long fasts and sometimes several long fasts to heal fully.

What's more, it is logical that healing will be faster if all non-essential energy is made available to the task. If much of the body's energy is tied up in preparing, consuming, digesting and eliminating waste from food, the amount of energy available for recovery will be reduced.

You said "The only way to prove this would be to get two groups of people with ankle sprains of equal severity, and let one group use each method, and see how long healing takes. This is not possible, as you can't get a large number of people with ankle sprains at the same time. If you did, the severity of the sprain may vary from person to person, so the time taken for healing would also vary, which ever method they used. So it is not possible."

A valid trial does not require all participants to get injured and recover simultaneously. It only requires random assignment to a group upon occurrence, specific instructions to be followed to limit variables, proper monitoring by qualified individuals who will not pass on their bias to the participant, honest documentation and independent, qualified statistical analysis of the results. It also requires funding which is where most trials really come unstuck but the main problem we would have is getting the medical profession to agree to the trial in the first place as they will be the ones most likely to encounter valid participants.


You also said "I would strongly encourage you all to think past the idea that one treatment suits all." As many here continuously reiterate, fasting is not a "treatment!" It is an extensive rest. The "treatment" is allowing the body to do what only the body can do - heal itself.

You said "There is no point in any of us continuing to repeat the same information in different ways. Sometimes you need to accept that we genuinely have different opinions. We can all continue to learn. At some time in the future, all of us may understand better."

I believe that there is a point in repeating correct information when incorrect information is being posted. I accept that we all will choose to believe what we think is correct but I think it's healthy to have my beliefs challenged as it will either enable me to confirm their validity or realise any flaws in my assumptions.

You finally said "Let's all continue to do what we can to have a positive influence." Amen to that!

NH...

arn,
of course healing does occur while eating normal meals. The body continuously strives towards healing and cleansing in the process of nutrition and drainage, and I think that this is fairly obvious to all; it is just that suspending the alimentary process will divert digestive energy (the most demanding for the body) into these physiological processes full time.
I think you should read the link I provided from Shelton more thoroughly.

Fasting has been referred to as a universal panacea, being widely used throughout Nature to effect healing, whether of disease or of injury. Did you know for example that blood-transfusions are totally unnecessary, as the body will make up the shortfall on a water-only-fast?

If you believe that Water Fasting will result in the nutrition required for healing to be less readily available, and will result in slower healing of an acute ankle sprain, or other injury involving tissue damage, then that is your prerogative, but unless this stance can be supported by evidence, then I think you should succumb/submit to the vast repertoire of knowledge that has gone before us, and which does not support your views in this matter at all.

The Medical professions gold-standard RCT (Randomized Controlled Trial) is hardly relevant in matters such as these, as NH has stated, but we do rely on both personal experience, and that of our forebears, which offers empirical evidence that has stood the test of time. This mostly qualified and professional empirical evidence has proven beyond doubt, that fasting greatly accelerates the healing processes of the body, including tissue and cell-repair. Of this there is no doubt to those who have witnessed this first-hand as I did, in overcoming an advanced state of Leukemia. The consensus is in, and you are in a distinct minority compared to those who know better, and have much greater experience and knowledge of this than you have yourself yet attained.

Muscle mass reduction is insignificant on even the most protracted fast, because of something known as "protein-sparing"; the vital organs and tissues are hardly touched upon at all during Autolysis: the bodys own discerning physiological process in utilizing all needless and effluent materials in feeding and repairing the body, whilst simultaneously preserving/rejuvenating the integrity of the vital organs and tissues.

You have much to learn it seems, so with an open and inquisitive mind this should be relatively easy, but very time-consuming.

Chrisb1.

1. yes
2. yes
3. no

Would anyone recommend that people fast in these situations:

1. A person who has been caught in a fire and has severe burns.

Yes of course, along with other first aid measures

2. During pregnancy.

Yes if there is a distinct need..............

FASTING DURING PREGNANCY............
Symptoms of pregnancy of nausea, vomiting, ("morning sickness"), lack of appetite and other symptoms that so many women experience during the early weeks of pregnancy. No woman in good health, who is living sensibly, ever has the slightest trace of these symptoms. No woman who has undergone a thorough renovation just prior to becoming pregnant, and who lives sensibly during this time, ever experiences these "symptoms of pregnancy."

They are not symptoms of pregnancy. They are symptoms of renovation. They indicate that nature is undertaking a house cleaning, that the body is to be put into its best shape preparatory to pregnancy and parturition. If they are heeded all will be well. If they are not heeded, nature will usually succeed in her work in spite of opposition and interference. Sometimes she fails. Always her success is more complete and more satisfactory if we cooperate with her.

The development of these symptoms is a sure sign that a house-cleaning is necessary. When anorexia, nausea and vomiting develop, absolutely no food but water should be taken until these have disappeared and there is a distinct call for food. There should be no fears about fasting. You may be sure that these symptoms will end and nature will call for food as soon as her renovating work is completed and long before there has been any damage to mother or fetus. A fast is just what she is calling for in the plainest possible manner, and a fast she usually gets even if she has to keep throwing the food back into the woman's face as often as she eats it for days. Rest is called for as loudly as the fast and should be had.

If this renovating work is permitted full sway and the woman will eat and live sensibly, afterward, there will be no necessity for another fast during pregnancy.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch26.htm


3. A person with malnutrition?

Yes, if the cause of the malnutrition is from the malabsorption of foods and nutrients. Fasting will afford the digestive system a rest and rejuvenate the powers of digestion and the assimilation of these nutrients.
Being well nourished has little to do with the diet per se but of the digestion, absorption and assimilation of nutrients.

FASTING IN DEFICIENCIES............

"As knowledge of the causes of "disease" increases, it becomes increasingly evident that there are certain forms of "disease" which are in part due to food deficiencies--beri-beri, scurvy, rickets, etc. What these cases need is better nutrition, better food. Yet one can not always arbitrarily rule out the fast in "deficiency diseases." For, sometimes they are due to a lack of assimilating power on the part of the body and this is remedied by the fast. Dr. Weger, who has had much experience with fasting says: "If the body, because of its crowded nutrition, cannot assimilate vitamin-bearing food, it can be brought into the condition to do this by a purifying fast."

"The value of the fast in rickets and certain "diseases" of childhood is well established. Its value in anemia has been discussed elsewhere. There is no reason why fasting cannot be employed in dietary deficiencies with great benefit. Indeed the loss of appetite seen in men and animals fed on greatly deficient diets indicates strongly that a fast is called for".
Dr Herbert M Shelton ........
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch26.htm

Pernicious Anaemia and Fasting by Dr Virginia Vetrano.......
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/articles/vetrano1.html


Can you conjure up any other alleged reasons why anyone should not fast? I think you are clutching at straws now.
Contraindications to fasting are few and far between, but the benefits are stupendous.

Chrisb1.

arn,

Further to Chrisb1's reply on this subject, there are a number of references to holistic first aid for burns that I'd like to see brought forward for scientific testing.

Linda Hazzard mentions in her book, Scientific Fasting, (http://chestofbooks.com/health/natural-cure/Linda-B-Hazzard/Scientific-Fasting/Bathing.html):

"IN THIS CONNECTION IT IS NOT GENERALLY KNOWN THAT BURNS OR SCALDS UPON THE SKIN MAY BE SUCESSFULLY TREATED BY SUBMERGENCE OF THE PART AFFECTED IN WATER. THE EXQUISITE PAIN OF SUCH INJURY IS AT ONCE RELIEVED BY THIS PROCEDURE, AND CONTINUING THE LATTER FOR HOURS OR EVEN DAYS PERMITS NATURAL HEALING PROCESSES TO ACT WITH DESPATCH AND SURETY. IF THE SKIN AREA SEARED IS EXTENSIVE, PLACING THE SUFFERER IN A FULL BATH AND KEEPING HIM THERE FOR THE TIME NECESSARY WILL OFTEN SERVE TO SAVE LIFE. THE WATER IN THE TUB SHOULD BE AT CONSTANT TEMPERATURE AND MUST BE FREQUENTLY CHANGED, WHILE WATER IN QUANTITY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE PATIENT TO DRINK."

Naturapathic Doctor, Arun Sharma (www.imanah.com), posted this on the INHS forum in response to another member's comments:

"...If that is your belief that NH cannot handle emergency situations like that it is not totally true. Yes, I agree that we have not developed into a system and have facilities like a hospital where we can treat accident victims and patients who get heart attack or stroke. But I am sure it is not impossible. We have nature cure hospitals in India some of which do handle such patients. I have dealt with heart attack patients, patients who had severe asthma attacks, burn victims and persons who were bitten by scorpions, snakes and poison ivy. There were a few patients with stroke and who lost sensation on one side of the body. Totally paralyzed with both legs and both hands (as an after effect of drugging) were revived back to complete mobility and active life within a matter of 2 months.
Most patients except surgical cases we can handle with a minimum or no gadgets, natural hygiene can handle them. I have mentioned earlier about a new born baby with RH negative problem and was about to die, was revived with periodic short exposures to direct sunlight followed by cold compress and one day fasting followed by mono diet on tender coconut water. This was considered as an emergency situation where the baby had to be subjected to a blood transfusion simultaneously removing all the existing blood.
Arun Sharma
Director (IMANAH)
International Institute of Mahayoga & Natural Hygiene
visit: http://www.imanah.com"


Although I cannot find the post, Dr Sharma told us at one time about a case of a woman in India with 3rd degree burns to her hand which they treated with cucumber packs (to relieve pain and extract toxins) and fasting. After so many days of fasting, the burnt skin sloughed off and was then completely replaced with perfect new skin leaving no scarring or any other hint of the original injury.

Of course, these anecdotes would never be given serious consideration by advocates of conventional medicine.

None of this counts as proof mind you, just something to think about.

NH...

arn,

You appear to be a typical troll that shows up here on this forum from time to time and eventually leaves. These trolls already know everything and there's no convincing them otherwise.

I say you APPEAR to be one. If you are, then go away you ignoramus.

If not, then we would be glad to discuss these matters further, but you will have to be at least a tiny bit open minded.

First, myself and I'm guessing the others don't really know what is your fasting knowledge and experience. That would be useful info before preceding, because 99% of the trolls never have fasted themselves, whereas 99% of us have. Some of us have done so too many times to count. I myself have fasted hundreds of times and never died once. No, not even once.

Every time I've fasted, I've received positive benefits: physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Many of us here quote "experts" such as references to Dr. Shelton, Dr. Hazzard, et al.

Between Dr. Shelton and Hazzard they have well over 100,000 patients whom they fasted. There is a wealth of knowledge to be had from them.

If I had my way, it would be a prerequisite to post on this forum to read Dr Shelton's work on fasting.

I distinctly remember Dr Shelton extolling the benefits of fasting during pregnancy. My wife has fasted during pregnancy. Many women are forced by nature to fast during their pregnancy due to "morning sickness".

A woman would be better off to fast BEFORE the pregnancy, though, therefore being in optimum health at the point of conception. That not always being the case, though, sometimes a fast during pregnancy is in good order. The duration of which is determined by many factors.

Having food in your stomach and intestine is not in any way magic.

Most people who die have a full belly. Almost never do people die during a fast.

Chris and others have done a nice job answering most of your questions. Your latest round of questioning is very obtuse. Fasting requires a specific healing time to each situation.

For instance, Chris has pointed out one form of malnutrition which would certainly result in benefits from fasting. Just ask Upton Sinclair. He wrote extensively about is wasting condition which fasting improved his overall body weight and general health.

If somebody is malnourished due to lack of quality food, then certainly they would need proper nourishment. This concept is emphasized thousands of times in this forum if you just took the time to look. It is always recommended when possible to nourish oneself properly first before fasting. Nutrition is the primary sub-theme of this forum.

If you are seriously interested in fasting, then please continue to hang around, but if you are just here for an argument, you will be wasting both your time and ours.

The trolls will never win on this forum. Most of us have experienced miraculous healing through fasting and are here to help others realize the same.

Fasting is excellent for mental health. This is why I believe you have never fasted and should seriously consider it.

arn,
Golthing has answered your questions succinctly and eloquently, and some of us have added to answering your other queries.

Please do some valid research of your own, or better still, try fasting yourself to witness the benefits first-hand.

As golthing has stated, if you are a troll, you are not welcome here, unless you have a change of heart and mind regarding your misperceptions of the fast, and the reason this forum exists.

Chrisb1

I actually asked some intelligent questions, and look at the response I got.

If you think you understand, and I don't, why don't you answer my questions so I can learn.

The answers have contained examples of healing during fasting. But there has been nothing to say that healing would not have occurred while eating regular meals, or that healing would be faster.