I don't get it. 
Wheatgrass Yogi
13 y
1,816
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Will someone please explain this cartoon to me?
I've been looking at pictures of Starving men. Can you really come back stronger if you let the Water Fast go too long, losing a lot of muscle?
I want to do a long Fast, but at 5'8" and 130 pounds now, I'm afraid I'll lose muscle. I've done two Fasts while posting here....one of 4 days, and most recently 5. I'll be ready in a week to embark on another of 6, or more, days.
You guys have been Great......WY
http://www.jupiterimages.com/Image/royaltyFree/87185632
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,614
This is a reply to # 1,766,107"water water everywhere and not a drop to drink". Sea water, it would seem.
But taken a bit further, if you think 'landlubber who feels like a castaway', all "at sea", it's like not realizing your medicine is all around you, and fearing it. As a matter of fact, this seems like a perfect cartoon for you--don't you feel? a lot like a koan in that it ought to stop thinking, and go right past all that to the knowing mind.
So you broke the fast? I had a feeling the dry fast portion/day was the wrong way to be contriving the thing.
I am not a big fan of these oft-repeated fasts with only a week between. To me, too much like some sort of obsession, but we know you are not the obsessional type. :-)
I would ask myself, why do I want to water fast?
(If you are as thin as you feel you are, and so concerned about it, what is driving this compulsion to keep fasting? Is it the sciatica? And what drives you to have to make it into a marathon of three parts? Why not just a straight water fast, without fear? About the return of muscle: it's been said many times, Yes. that is, don't make worry.
C
- Re: I don't get it. chrisb1
13 y
1,781
This is a reply to # 1,766,152Advertisement
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Chiron,
I would agree with you here in your post.
There is just so much and too much emphasis on water-only fasting.
Fasting should not have to be a pastime or play any part in our lives whatsoever unless we are ill or diseased or want to lose weight or for spiritual reason, or for intermittent detox of once or twice per year.
The lifestyle we choose to abide by should negate the need for constant and intermittent fasting, and what I do tend to get fed up with is those people who constantly refer to fasting as a cure for this or a cure for that, when it is no such thing.
In the words of Shelton and others: fasting is NOT a cure, it is a cessation of doing. It allows the body to play catch-up on elimination and repair.
Only the body heals itself, and where fasting is a tool or catalyst to that end. No more and no less.
Fastings limitations are that of the body itself.
Chrisb1.
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,613
This is a reply to # 1,766,166
"fasting is NOT a cure, it is a cessation of doing. It allows the body to play catch-up on elimination and repair.
Only the body heals itself, and where fasting is a tool or catalyst to that end. No more and no less."
excellent point, Chris, though it might startle some people here, who might feel we've been saying something else: it's more that they've been hearing only one part of what's been said--the water-fasting as healing part.
I too begin to see way too much 'culture of water fasting' as if it were all of life. But leaped into, and then leaped out of, as well. Making it all a slightly silly engagement--and missing the point. This new culture seems to be overweighted with people who are very often on "day one!" Or who post their plans, and rally suppoort and then don't post that they broke the fast, but soon start posting again, about a future fast.
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,613
- Re: I don't get it. chrisb1
13 y
1,781
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,597
This is a reply to # 1,766,107Advertisement
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"I've been looking at pictures of Starving men."
why? why are you feeding yourself this stuff? One picture is enough to be alarmed, and then move on, and then if you need more, look at the after-refeeding pictures.
If you "feed" yourself images of lack, what kind of a gift is that to your worrying mindset?
This is another way to view this cartoon--the guy is all about "lack". Perhaps you are lacking minerals, and ought to concentrate on that for awhile. Are you drinking wheatgrass these days--having kelp, nettles and so forth?
As you might be aware, our produce in this world tends toward low-brix, and it becomes harder to get real nutrition, without eating some wild foods, and things like kelp and blackstrap molasses. ( when not Water Fasting )
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- Re: I don't get it. chrisb1
13 y
2,029
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This is a reply to # 1,766,107Hello Wheatgrass,
In answer to your question..............
"Can you really come back stronger if you let the Water Fast go too long, losing a lot of muscle"?
Absolutely; of course you can.
The body will conserve its vital tissue on a water-fast, so no matter how long this may be, and even into the starvation period proper, when fasters have ignored the natural return of hunger (how did they do that)? the vital organs are barely touched upon; this also includes muscle tissue.
After Ketosis sets in properly, the body will still need a tiny amount of glucose for some of its functions, so a very small amount of protein, 18-24 grams, is still catabolized to supply it...............about 1/2 an ounce to 1 ounce of muscle tissue per day.
Over a 30 day Water Fast a person generally loses a maximum of 1-2 pounds of muscle mass. This demonstrates the conservation of the body's protein as an evolutionary development that exists purely to protect muscle tissue and the other vital organs from damage during periods of insufficient food availability...............and for whatever reason that may be.
The general concept of strength comes from the perceived size of a mans muscles..........the bigger the muscles..........the stronger the man; but this is in fact a fallacy, because bodily strength comes from the power of nerve-energy or "the life-force" behind these muscles.
An example..........
Bernarr Macfaden (the father of of physical culture within the USA) although a physically slight man could rip a pack of playing cards in half with his bare hands..........and then proceeded to do that again into quarters.!!!!!!!
He had relatively small muscles.
I would read Carringtons excellent book on the source of strength entitled...............
"Vitality, Fasting and Nutrition" to learn even more.
A free copy here.................
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=erQ8EHYMaXkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=vitali...
Chrisb1.
- Re: I don't get it. ALB
13 y
1,662
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At 130 and 5ft 8 doubt you have much muscle now nor much bodyfat. Get some measurements of BF.
Remember irish fasters started dying at 60 days at 15% on water fasting.
So if you are like 5% you might only last 20 days.
You will of course be canibalizing muscle and other vital things fasting is starving when you are under minimum fat and think thats around 5% for men. 15 or something for women.
I think you have it right with short fasts and really with all the stuff you are doing don't think you would need any long fasts you are pretty healthy aren't you?
If anything you are underweight. I think 7 to 14 sounds more than long enough and wish that soon I will only have to go 14 or 21 just don't like those longer fasts much.
And yes guys will try pure fasting next time for shorter periods of time. Course you do know that Shelton pretty sure insisted every fast be to true hunger but that is not practical for really fat people it would take months and months for true hunger. For skinny guys like you maybe true hunger will come in 7 days or 10 days or 14.
Try longer and see. But would be pretty careful to go 20 or more until you know your bodyfat.
That is why fat people can go so long with no food they have the fat in reserve. I can't image weighing 130 at 5ft 8. Wife was skinny as stick when in past she was getting down around 130s range, at 5ft 6.Healthy weight for your height is likely 160 range. Are you anorexic maybe? Not meaning this in derrogatory way.
Also the body does spare muscle in fasting if their is fat to burn.If there is none it canabalizing it badly then vital organ stuff. Fortunately most times no real harm is done you can gain back muscle takes awhile though and the other organs and stuff are guess pretty resilient till near the end when the fast becomes lethal and things really start being eaten up,heart muscle ,etc.
Starving is not a pretty way to die it don't sound like.
And fasting is starving when no fat reserves remain.
- Re: I don't get it. chrisb1
13 y
1,795
This is a reply to # 1,766,188At 130 pounds and at 5ft 8 inches that is very slim and only borderline above being underweight with a BMI of 19.8.
Question for you Wheatgrass.
Q why do you need to fast so often with three extended fasts already under your belt?
Your body will continue to heal from its ailments post-fast and cleanse itself if your lifestyle choices encourage that to happen.
Lifestyle choices are far more important than the fast. Even animals only fast when absolutely necessary such as illness/injury/disease and food scarcity.
In comparison WG I am also 5ft 8inches and weigh in at 154 pounds.
If I were you I would concentrate on building healthy tissue with a natural diet and other lifestyle choices such as exercise, fresh air, plenty of sleep and rest before even contempalting another fast of any duration.
All the best.
Chrisb1.
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- Re: I don't get it. ALB
13 y
1,655
This is a reply to # 1,766,221Advertisement
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Bmi is pretty useless measurement. Bodyfat is much much better indicator. You at 154 are obviously in an nice range most likely at 150 I would likely be 5% BF at 5ft 6 due to carrying a lot of muscle.
I would think a 7 to 14 day fast would be plenty for WY.
Also you guys might want to think your lifestyle if you are pure vegans. Pretty good case for being an omnivore right there!
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- Re: I don't get it. ALB
13 y
1,655
- Re: I don't get it. chrisb1
13 y
1,795
- fear: the biggest contraindication t... chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
2,096
This is a reply to # 1,766,107
fear is enemy number one. But you can't shoo it away. or 'put it away'. Nor can you *talk it away* (which is what I see happening again and again: a subtle form of distraction/deflection through quasi-engagement), with continually dialoguing what has been stated again and again, and proven. I used to do this on the Moreless forum, years ago, always talking about the protocol, and questioning it -- really very interested in all aspects, ( there are old posts to prove it), firmly believing I was simply studying/learning about it. Moreless used to get a little snippy, and short-fused. Actually, sometimes alot. But okay--he was always answering the same questions, and from the same people sometimes. Then finally, I shut up -as he suggested- and undertook some of the protocol, and saw for myself the results. Which were beyond reproach.I was not as sick as many there--so things tunred aorund very fast for me, with the remineralization.
But Chris, here, has maybe put the subject to rest, and with his imperishable patience for the same old subject that there are countless posts on.
WY, this wanting to do a long fast and *doing it* are still worlds apart, let's be straight- it would seem; so, all that's within the nebulous realm of speculation--which we don't have endless precious time for, in this crazy world.
C'mon, man. And you have a way of bringing the (this) reader back again and again in good faith... So, one wants to try to allay your fears again and again--but also, at some point to urge you to get self-honest about where you are at. Five days might in fact be plenty for you.
As Chris has said, endless fasting is NOT what the water fast is about. In fact, all the masters said "don't do it" unless you really have to, for health. They didn't make it into a kind of Utopia of the Godlike.
A person in need would fast, with real grit and patience, then start to take good care of themselves, and go on with life, *after water fasting* AWF -- which should free valuable neurons for considering much more than the mere physical state. For all that I talk up the water fsst, it is only one small part of life. To think otherwise is to become a risoner of some new compulsion/addiction, which God knows, we need an end to.
I would sincerely suggest you deal with the fear (with EFT, etc). Don't just put the dealing-with in a drawer called interesting. It's not going to work to keep talking at it. And then, really examine why you want to do this long water fast anyway. Forgive self, forgive others, ( then find true appreciation for everything previously thought of as 'bad'or 'wrong': these are the huge blocks and undoings -- water fasting doesn't do all that work of liberation--It's the mind that has to get right about emotions, sensations, memory.
best, CPS--I hesitate to give youmore 'stuff' to read and consider- since I think thinking is part of the thing you really need to fast from (!!) but I'm going to get a link to an interview with this guy Lou Corona, I think it might resonate for you. The guy is healthy, has water fasted, eats raw and living for 38 years--might be a good mentor, or example. be back in a sec'.
here it is! enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0QOF4kSI3k
- Re: I don't get it. Wheatgrass Yogi
13 y
1,652
This is a reply to # 1,766,107A special thanks to Chiron, Chrisb1, and ALB for replying to my topic 'I don't get it'. Your points were all well taken.
Chiron....I have a Refractometer too. The water I drink tested out at -0.2, and the soak water for my next smoothie was +10.8.
Chrisb1....I looked at Carrinton's "Vitality, Fasting and Nutrition". It is too much for me right now.
ALB....I am going to shoot for 7 to 12 days for my next Fast, as you suggested.
I find all of this very interesting....especially Ketosis, and Autolysis.
All the gains I made in reducing my Sciatic Nerve pain during my 5-day WF have been lost during refeeding. I'm in pain as I write this.
Best to All.....WY
P.S. Chiron....I liked what you said about the cartoon....good insight.Advertisement
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- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,558
This is a reply to # 1,766,423Try the EFT. My ex-husband had sciatica for a time upon our separation. I feel it is often very emotional. What about a good chiropractor, as well? (additionally, have you ever watched any Kam Yuen? he's pretty grounded--knows his meridians...)
"soak water". Not sure what we are measuring here. Water with Sea Salt ? The refractometer doesn't measure just water...(the drinking water)It is built for density of plant sap, where density equates harmonically to mineral synergy and fruit sugars.
best, C - Re: I don't get it. ALB
13 y
1,648
This is a reply to # 1,766,423I think there are some good yoga exercises for sciatic nerve pain. Found some on net once but my pain lucky for me went away maybe on its own.
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,558
- Re: I don't get it. chirontherainbowbridge
13 y
1,614
