Odds he is a narcissist 
Crucified4NoSins
14 y
4,139
† Cross †
Hi, so my best friend started to see this guy, and he seems dodgy, he asked her out while he had a girlfriend and didn't drop the girlfriend for three weeks so he could mess with the girl's life. Then barely five days later, he makes everyone else going out with them cancel and calls it an official first date. She originally refused to date him, but he kept pushing and she said she'd get to know him, but he just went right into dating and that was it.
Now she herself suffers from very low self esteem (due to childhood sexua| abuse, physical abuse and abandonment) and a whole host of other stuff, she is now with this guy and some of the things he says and does just seems off, namely :
1. He has a huge opinion of himself (calls himself gorgeous, worships his family's status and income bracket).
2. Refers to her as an extension of himself (Actually used those words.
3. Claims all women are manipulative and conniving and some girls are only good for relationships and others for sex.
4. Has had promiscous open relationships, but claims he can't have sex with someone unless he has an emotional connection.
5. Looks down on the poor, the sick, etc. and has a huge sense of entitlement.
6. Is controlling (told her where she is allowed to eat for her birthday and when some of her friend disagreed became angry, disturbed and violent).
7. Says he enjoys the sense of power and control over others and that money and power is all that matters in this world.
8. Has become angry, rude and hostile if she shows low self esteem.
Further details for anyone who wants to know, he is somewhat attractive to women and has a rich family, other than that, he claims to know everything, but you ask for more answers and somehow he seems not to really know about anything, also alot of his statements to her versus his real thoughts differ, also he loves to brag and belittle others.
Is he a narcissist?
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- Re: Odds he is a narcissist BlueRose
14 y
4,030
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,656,787He could well be one---many of the signs/symptoms appear to be there.
Whatever is going on with him, it is apparent that he zeroed in on your friend because of the vibe she sent out. People like him can pick up on things like low self-esteem and vulnerability.
You sound like you're a good friend to her---and she could really use one! Perhaps you could point out all the things about him that you mentioned here. Let her know that she could do better. Offer to be supportive if she finally breaks away from him. Has she been to counseling? If not, you could encourage her to do so.
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- Re: Odds he is a narcissist Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,781
This is a reply to # 1,656,840Well here is the thing, I did tell her my opinions, and not only did she not give a hoot, she actually attacked me and all her old friends, in defense of him and his friends (who are such nice people who use drugs I kid you not and get wasted 50% of the time, half of them have cheated and look to this guy as something of a hero).
This guy has weird sense of attachment, I mean his longest relationship was with an Indian girl, who he dated for 9 months, then just suddenly dumped the moment he found a new girl who interested him, and basically severed the Indian girl.
She has always been stable, but alot of personal heartbreaks occured beginning of the year, and well, she sorta flipped out in February, became involved with this crowd and this guy.
I mean she barely spoke to him when he first asked her for sex (not a date), she spoke to him maybe three sentences and knew him three hours.
Problem is she doesn't listen to me either, as things kinda became more than friends between us (which she initiated and then suddenly denied even in front of people who witnessed this), and now she says it's just cause I have issues cause I like her (if you haven't guessed it, I'm male).
We started out as best friends and circa January stuff kinda went very flirtatious and somewhat sexual.
Our other mutual friends she won't listen as she claims it's out of prejudice as he is part Turkish, and she and they are Armenian and there is historic bad blood with the two due to the Armenian Genocide. The truth is, even if he were Armenian himself they'd be annoyed because he is an ass (directly saying women are like dogs and must be taught obedience), we showed this to her and she just denied it existed and then minimized it, idealized him and devalued us.
However, my concern was not out of selfishness, while I won't deny I find her attractive and wonderful, and would not mind to be more than just friends, my initial kneejerk reaction to this guy was because I found it strange that some guy who has a girlfriend would ask someone out and then push continuously after she refused.
Alot of people told me just forget about her, as she hasn't been too kind the last few months, but I've never had anyone I get along with so well and whether as friends or more than friends, I deeply care for her, and besides me she has no one close to turn to (she and her mom are so distant it's unreal, plus her mother verbally abusive), so I feel abandoning her would be wrong, specially as when she was near suicidal I swore to her I'd never abandon her like her father and her mother did after the molestation.
Thing is, she has been suicidal and self harming before and this really worries me too.- Re: Odds he is a narcissist BlueRose
14 y
3,887
This is a reply to # 1,656,888While I think it's wonderful that you have such loyalty to her, at the same time you have to look out for yourself.
Have you tried to tell her how you feel about her behavior toward you? When she attacked you when you told her about your concerns regarding her dating this guy, did you tell her that you brought them up out of concern for her?
If you want to stay friends and stay loyal to her, you really need to have a serious conversation with her. Point out that you care about her and want the best for her, thus you didn't appreciate being attacked. Let her know that your patience and loyalty can only be stretched so far. Again reiterate your concerns about this guy. Let her know that you think she should get some counseling. If she agrees, offer to go to the appointment with her as a show of support. Also, wait for her while she's in the appointment. Finally, tell her it's her life but as her friend you are trying to spare her from heartache.
If she attacks you after all that, then I suggest that you end the friendship with her. Or at very least, tell her that when she comes to her senses, she can call you.
You must realize, sad to say, that some people just don't appreciate a good friend when they find one. That appears to be the case with her.
All the best to you!- Re: Odds he is a narcissist Crucified4NoSins
14 y
4,011
This is a reply to # 1,656,898At the moment we are cordial, not like in the past where we used to share everything and talk about everything (was referred to as her person), I spoke to the others and they reckon they themselves keep it distant.
For now I'm keeping it cordial as she doesn't keep as much contact as me as in the past, I mean since the start she has been over at his place almost everyday, that said though there was over three weeks where he was too busy to see her even though he helps her study for her studies as he is in the same line of work, he helped her before, but suddenly now he is too busy, which is odd.
Most said, we'll be there when she crashes, I dunno if she is maybe bipolar, borderline, codependent or a combination of those as she has a traumatic history, I myself have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder centered around death, and as of late have been experiencing some severe traumas (Death of family members and hospitalization for near-pneumonia), so not alot of contact with anyone.
She has once before lost track of stuff like this, namely at seventeen, she flipped out, got wasted and slept with loads of girls. Thing is, she has never been with a guy, her first experience with a girl was traumatic (The molestation), should her first time be with a guy who gets callous amusement out of her suffering, that's what really just makes me feel meh, I mean if he drops her, she has no one, I'm not there and her other friends left (believe me, some have no intention of being close with her again, I'm one of the few who still wants to be close to her), she will try for self harm or do worse, I dunno, maybe when he has dumped her, I can use that as a window so she can get counselling, hell I'd go with her every session, she means the world to me, always has, always will.
- Re: Odds he is a narcissist Crucified4NoSins
14 y
4,011
- Re: Odds he is a narcissist BlueRose
14 y
3,887
- Re: Odds he is a narcissist Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,781
- ...and, possibly BPD #68716
14 y
3,862
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This is a reply to # 1,656,787Your concern for your friend's well-being is noble and valuable because she is going to NEED friends, at some point. This guy fits the profile of NPD, but it sounds as if there may also be hints of borderline personality disorder. Whatever he is, he's bad news and will leave this friend of yours in emotional (at the very least) tatters, and she is going to need support when the shit hits the proverbial fan. Right now, saying anything, suggesting anything, and enlisting Captain Obvious to demonstrate what's actually happening is NOT going to make one bit of difference to your friend - it will only broaden the chasm between you and (this guy hopes) possibly end your friendship. Your friend has been made to feel that she has found the catch of the millenium. Her past issues, and the fact that she probably wears these issues openly, were a beacon for this guy - she appears vulnerable, she says she is vulnerable, and she's a perfect candidate for his games. Nothing you can do or say is going to stop this train wreck from happening, so keep your feelings to yourself, set up your boundaries to protect your own emotional health, and just "be there" when this train goes off the tracks.
Now, about this business of labeling with disorders: stop it. Every human being suffers and endures traumas and tragedies. This is part of the "human condition." To seek a diagnosis or to label one's Self with one disorder or another is unfair to our humanity. It's not what we've suffered or endured, but how we choose to manage our experiences that determines whether or not these labels are acceptable. Additionally, these labels allow for an easy excuse for poor choices, bad behaviors, or poor decision-making. The whole point of this is that, when this friend finally emerges from her experience with this soul-sucker, it will be imperative to avoid using labels to attempt to explain what happened. "Love Fraud: The Book" is due out on the market in a couple of weeks - I suggest that anyone who is concerned with these types of men and women get a copy of this book and check out the blog archives at the official site: www.lovefraud.com. The author of this book is an intelligent, educated, and successful woman who was flim-flammed by the same type of person.
Borderline Personality Disorder is a broad, sweeping "diagnosis" that attempts to explain how and why human beings can deliberately (and, with malice aforethought) harm and permanently damage other human beings without a shred of shame, guilt, conscience, or concern. There are many levels of BPD with some being violent and others not. But, the more that you educate yourself on this, the better you'll be able to be available to your friend, and learn how to avoid allowing yourself to become embroiled in HER drama/trauma, as well.
Best wishes to you and your friend!
- Re: ...and, possibly BPD Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,590
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This is a reply to # 1,657,759He doesn't have the history for Borderline's usual enviroment (although I suppose genetics can come into play), however, more about him :
He is obsessed with militaristic persuits.
Dreams of ideal love, unlimited power, unlimited wealth.
He enjoys hurting animals, and he himself has openly admitted he has used sex to hurt, control or punish someone.
My friend, being as she is with her low self esteem,
thinks nothing bad of this, even outright denying it,
the guy's group of friends adore him and that's enough for her to think he is the greatest thing since pizza.
It worries me as he is this, American Psycho esque character, rich, succesful, charming...but yet every woman he was in a relationship with, lasted a short time and has labeled him a bad boyfriend, and he does the same to all of them, proclaims marriage or love early on (in the first week), idealizes then...then rapidly devalues them and systematically abandons them, but not before messing with them and humiliating them.
He has been known to have violent outbursts.
She has been with a guy that was Borderline, I know him, he is actually a prety decent guy, although exhibits black and white thinking, and even he is rebuked by this character, she has been very cruel toward this ex and he wants nothing further from her, but even he is concerned.
The mother is in love with this guy as he is rich and Southern European mostly (part Turkish part Greek, she has no idea about the Turkish part, the mother is very traditional in her views, she'd kick her daughter out if she hears the word Turk), and it reminds her of the stereotypical Mills and Boone character, basically the mom is giddy as she heard cash and the mother isn't very big on the fact that her ancestry is Middle Eastern (even wanted to change the surname to sound Anglo-American).
I'm seen as a nice guy, but the mother is wary of me, because I'm Mexican, and she thinks we are all gangsters and illegal immigrants and slum dwellers (despite having paid myself through college and have a decent job, I work as an IT Information Security Consultant).
So the mom will be hostile with me if I even suggest this guy is bad news to her.
He directly said, the only thing that turns him on in sex is the idea of power and control, being in control and controlling people, that's the ultimate rush and that only power and control coupled with money is real in this world, and if he gives any of his precious finances, he excepts every service rendered (his words in reference to love, intimacy and attachment).
Right now I'm keeping out of it, hurts to see her hurting herself, but meh, right now if I even say a word against him, she'd ignore me for weeks probably.-
Re: ...and, possibly BPD #68716
14 y
3,693
This is a reply to # 1,658,306"He doesn't have the history for Borderline's usual enviroment"
First of all, there's no such thing as a "usual environment" for someone with BPD - debate still rages as to whether or not BPD and/or sociopathy is genetic or learned, though there have been plenty of these types of people who were raised in loving, nurturing environments and still fit the profile of a sociopath to support the theory that they just are.
From your descriptions, this person fits the profile of a full-blown sociopath. Of course, I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, especially based upon a third-party description.
This guy is very, very bad news and it's very unfortunate that your friend is going to have to learn the ugly way about him. For your emotional well-being, stay out of it and learn as much as you can about sociopathy. At some point, this is all going to fall apart - hopefully, sooner than later. When it does, your friend is going to need support and encouragement.
I strongly recommend the site: www.lovefraud.com This site was developed with the intent to educate the general public about sociopathy (aka Borderline Personality Disorder Cluster B Traits) and has evolved into an extraordinary healing blog. Check it out, and be good to yourself.
As an aside, I can't imagine how difficult it is to feel labeled and stereotyped as you do. Know this one thing: you are a valuable human being with something important to do in your lifetime.
Best wishes!
- Re: ...and, possibly BPD Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,822
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
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Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 1,658,995Well just saw photos of him and her on facebook.
Just uploaded and on my wall...that hurt, alot.
But yeah I see your point, how long on average before these jerks start to devalue?
I mean I know alot will tell me just forget about her, if she gets her it's her fault, abandon her, move on, but...I really love her alot and I can't bear the thought of her being left with no one, in all truth, I'm the one person she really has in this world, even if she devalues me right now.
Love or mercy keeps me at her door I guess, but I just find it insulting that when she has a problem, has worries or so on, I'm good enough, in the past I was everything, I meant the world to her, I mean we were inseperable, to the point that everyone thought we were a couple for God's sake.
Now it's like I'm there when he doesn't give a crap when she is down (he's all affectionate until she complains, has pain or is down...then she just "wants attention" according to him).- Boundaries #68716
14 y
3,764
This is a reply to # 1,659,016
I am so sorry that you're experiencing this drama/trauma - of course it hurts because it was meant to do just that. You've explained your concerns to this friend, I gather, and she hasn't taken it very well. Why should she? She believes that she has found Prince Charming, and you're trying to "ruin" the fairytale for her!
I would suggest deleting the photo(s) of her and her boyfiend - yes, I typed "BOYFIEND." This will remove the visual barb for YOU. Then, either "hide" her facebook comments, or stay off off FB for a week or so - yes, in this day and age of technological communications, we believe that we just can't LIVE without our social networks, but this is erroneous. We are FAR better off avoiding the "I just woke up - gonna be a bad day," and "I have a migraine" negativity. Who honestly cares about every aspect of someone's life THAT much? A week without social networking is a respite for the soul and a severance from the mundane, trivial, and super-negativity.
As for how long? It's already been going on - friendships have been dissolved, humiliation/degradation has already begun, etc. There is no way to know when the proverbial shit is going to hit the fan, but your concerns aren't going to amount to a fart in a windstorm, right now as far as she is concerned. BOUNDARIES. When she's lonely, when she's miserable, when she wants to rant about this guy's treatment of her - YOU ARE NOT AVAILABLE. This may sound very cruel, but this is strictly to protect your Self. She keeps coming back to you because you allow her to - you haven't set strict boundaries, and you will be eaten alive by proxy as this progresses. This is what is commonly termed as, "tough love."
Now, in setting your boundaries, it's not necessary to BE cruel. If she calls and wants to rant about the boyfiend, an appropriate response might be, "Are you telling me all of this because you want advice, or are you just ranting? If you're ranting, that's fine. But, I'm not offering any advice." If she wants to associate with you when she's lonely, an appropriate question might be, "Are you seeking me out because I'm a valued friend, or are you just lonely?" And, so on. Right now, you are making HER problems into YOUR problems, and that will only cause more emotional trauma to you. You are not responsible for her well-being, under any circumstances. You are only responsible for your own well-being and your own choices. You cannot "save" her from her current path. You can only "save" your Self so that she will know a stronger, wiser, and more self-assured person when she eventually DOES need support to get (and, STAY) out.
I would never suggest to someone to "forget" another human being that they care deeply about. And, I would never, EVER suggest that someone "deserves" the damage that a sociopath inflicts. But, the only way that human beings learn NOT to touch the hot stove is by burning their fingertips - telling someone that they'll burn themselves only spurs them on to prove us wrong. But, distancing your Self from this gal's stupid choices is imperative for your emotional health. Once she starts sliding down that vortex of misery, she will drag you right down with her as long as you allow it.
Best wishes to you.
- Re: Boundaries Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,731
This is a reply to # 1,659,295I am doing exactly that now, she is oddly talking to more of my friends, as he is quite a distant person anyways, I mean in 1 hour he'd post all these songs up on her profile, then be quiet for weeks, even if he doesn't see her, it's like he goes between two extremes, one minute overt, grand displays, the next minute absolute neglect.
I know he is already emotionally abusing her, and I feel for her and I know as you said she needs to see for herself, still hurts, but I get your point. He just better not lift a hand towards her or try to sexually abuse her.
No one means more to me than her and if he does any of that, I will make him regret the day he was born.
I assume the best course of action for her, after he does the extension amputation is she needs to have NC with him no?
Something doesn't checkout btw about him, something a friend of mine commented on :
He claims he works 70 hour weeks during tax season, yet he still has time to study for his Law degree, do a volunteer income tax accounting gig for 3 hours, go out with friends, go to gym, etc. How in the space of one day do you manage it.
If you work say 14 hours a day (Assuming you don't work on a weekend), have to go that program for 3 hours, commute (which would take probably an hour), study and/or go to class (plus to study for the bar, I thought you have to have a 20 hour working week maximum), go to gym for two hours, eat for maybe 1-2 hours.
That means he is busy 19 or 20 hours a day, yet can still go out and party with his friends or (when he has time for her) spend it with her?
I'm no accountant, but those numbers look a little like a mini watergate scandal- Re: Boundaries #68716
14 y
3,703
This is a reply to # 1,661,905
"No one means more to me than her and if he does any of that, I will make him regret the day he was born."
Okay...stop right there. YOU should mean more to you than anyone else. Not in a "selfish" way, but in a spiritual and emotional sense. You and mutual friends can clearly see this train wreck coming from way down the tracks. When this shit does hit the proverbial fan, if you are still in this mind-frame, you will make her issues into your issues, and that is one of the ugly and far-reaching aspects of how these people leave a vast wake of damage. You will be counted as collateral damage if you keep focusing on helping this gal and/or making this bad fellow "regret the day he was born." By taking on another person's issues as our own, we effectively remove the ability for them to learn the consequences of their own choices, regardless of how terrible the consequences might be. We cannot live for others. We don't have that power, and it's counterproductive to pretend that we do.
Checking up on her, checking up on him, looking into his activities, focusing on what is happening in this ill-fated relationship is taking up WAY too much time that you could be spending upon building a strong and wise Self. "Self" is that part of you which makes you unique in all the world. Distancing one's Self from a harmful situation means just that: distance from EVERY aspect, including constant checking of social networking sites and discussion among mutual friends about her situation. None of these activities are productive for you, mutual friends, or for the victim. It only breeds more rumor, more supposition, more angst, and more erroneous need to intervene. You cannot help her. You cannot save her. And, there is nothing that you (or, anyone else) can do to stop this train from wrecking.
Boundaries not only apply to other people, but to our own choices and actions. For instance, I must literally force myself to maintain a strict personal boundary that I will not make any personal disclosures to new acquaintances. I will not risk giving a potential user any personal information about my past issues for them to use at a later date. I must maintain a personal boundary to NOT give into the impulse to "check up" on individuals with whom I've had a negative experience. What they're doing is not my business, and this is a very strong impulse to manage. I must also place a boundary on my emotional triggers - I cannot allow myself to react to everything that touches my past emotional, physical, or spiritual experiences. This is where you may want to consider working on YOU - your Self. I would gently suggest that you spend this energy on you. Begin looking beyond this one person whom you do not have the power to save or help. Look into different methods of managing you, emotionally as well as spiritually. And, when I say "spiritual" work, I mean finding and nurturing your Self - NOT organized religious doctrines.
Yes, it's terrible to watch someone that we care about making very stupid choices, but we are not responsible for their choices or the consequences of those stupid choices. Hence, the desire to make this guy "regret" anything is only feeding this focus on saving your friend. If he harms her, the responsibility lies upon his deliberate actions, and she will have to take ownership of her decision to be with this bad guy, or not. Being an a**ho** isn't against the law. And, there is no law against making stupid decisions.
Put your emotional and spiritual growth first, Crucified4NoSins. You can't stop this train wreck. But, you sure have the power to cultivate and maintain a strong, wise, and healthy Self. :)
Best wishes to you!
- Re: Boundaries BlueRose
14 y
4,011
This is a reply to # 1,661,921Excellent advice from SoulfulSurvivor---I agree 100%. SoulfulSurvivor's words got me thinking about the time our daughter put us through hell.
We had sent her off to college where she partied away the second semester and flunked out. Later, someone whom she had confided in told us the whole ugly story. Our daughter had taken up smoking and gotten into drugs. To say we were devastated by this info was an understatement. We called her up and confronted her with what we knew. Also, we gave her an opportunity to come home and get back to school. She declined and we told her she was on her own---she wouldn't get a cent from us. We kept in phone contact. There was a part of me that wanted to go get her and drag her home. However, she was an adult now and had to make her own choices. This isn't to say that we didn't worry about her---we did. However, we did keep some distance.
Long story short---she did put us through more grief---there was a time that we didn't hear from her for 6 months and had no way of contacting her.
Eventually, she called and apologized for her actions. She has gotten her life back together---doesn't smoke or do drugs anymore, is married and has kids. She calls us at least once a week, sometimes more often.
I'm glad that we resisted the impulse to go and try to intervene in her life. We used that time to heal and give us some time for ourselves---to do what we wanted to do.
I wish things had gone differently, but looking back, I'm glad we handled things the way we did. Some people were critical of us for not going to her and dragging her home. I explained that she was now an adult and had to find her own way.
Take SoulfulSurvivor's words to heart and work on healing yourself. Your health and well-being are of the utmost importance. I understand that you care about her but she is an adult and it's her life to lead---sad as it is right now. You must for your own sake, keep her at arm's length. She knows how to contact you if she wants. You need to move forward. Is any of this easy? Of course not. However, sometimes doing the right thing isn't the easist thing to do.
Best of luck to you!
- Re: Boundaries BlueRose
14 y
4,011
- Re: Boundaries #68716
14 y
3,703
- Re: Boundaries Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,731
- Boundaries #68716
14 y
3,764
- Re: ...and, possibly BPD Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,822
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- Re: ...and, possibly BPD Crucified4NoSins
14 y
3,590
- Re: Odds he is a narcissist BlueRose
14 y
4,030
