I have seen no proof that Ron Paul is a Mason, but have to admit that the fact that both his wife and his daughter are in organizations closely tied to Masons indicate some pretty heavy ties at the least. The lastest theories about evil handsigns may be making much about nothing. Dr. Paul, who is arthritic in his hands, was giving the universal sign language signal for love (thumb extended out) rather than the satanic symble with thumb crossed over. And the kind of hand grasp identified as a secret symbol is also a common one that I bet most people have used when they have to stretch out to grasp someone's hand.
Now, the site you referred to may or may not be right about Ron Paul, but it is nevertheless an apologist site for Freemasonry that glosses over or leaves out important information. On the one hand it talks about how people openly sign up for Masonry as if that is somehow proof that it is not a secretive organization, and yet it says nothing about all the secret rites and rituals of Free Masonry.
The site has a listing of famous Masonic "black sheep", yet does not list Albert Pike, a truly evil Satanist who engaged in orgies with young boys, likely was involved in human sacrifice and was an early NWO leader? What a convenient omission!
Nor does it have much to say about the world of difference between ordinary Free Masons and those who ascend to the 33rd and higher levels. I bet you want ever see a pro-Mason site print or admit the truth about the rituals involved before and after becoming a 33rd degree Mason. They are quite horrific.
There are a very large number of well meaning, civic minded Free Masons. In fact, few of the members below the 33rd degree even know what Freemasonry is about at the upper levels. Apparently - and my sources are very, very good - above the 32nd Degree, at least in some of the groups, the twisted truth is revealed and it is quite simply evil.
You know, Ron Paul has made mistakes. Letting those newsletters go out in his name and claiming to not know what they contained rings hollow with me because it happened for 20 years, he made a lot of money from them and his wife and daughter were on the payroll for several years. No way you do not know what was going in under those circumstances, in my opinion. But he did accept moral responsibility and what keeps me from believing he is a tool of the NWO or any other group is that his record and message have been consistent, though some continue to wrongly ascribe racism to votes made on constitutional grounds (and I can see why given the content of the ill advised newsletters). Nevertheless, what Paul votes for and what he advocates - such as the abolishment of the Fed, end to wars and return of liberties - is so against the NWO agenda that to me it is a much longer reach than some of thosed stretched out handshakes to portray him as an agent of the NWO.
DQ
The site has a listing of famous Masonic "black sheep", yet does not list Albert Pike, a truly evil Satanist who engaged in orgies with young boys, likely was involved in human sacrifice and was an early NWO leader? What a convenient omission!
Nor does it have much to say about the world of difference between ordinary Free Masons and those who ascend to the 33rd and higher levels. I bet you want ever see a pro-Mason site print or admit the truth about the rituals involved before and after becoming a 33rd degree Mason. They are quite horrific.
You just skimmed over the link I posted. Albert Pike is listed, and so is the 33rd degree.
http://tinyurl.com/ce6nkh http://tinyurl.com/akchyx
Applogist site? I have no way of knowing, just as you have no way of knowing that Albert Pike had orgies with young boys. That is unless you were one of the young boys.
For clarification, I don't like any of the so called secret societies. They are secret because they are up to no good. Another name for them is the "Good ole boy network"
I also give people the benefit of the doubt until it has been proven that any assertions are backed up with irrefuteable facts. Of course you already know this as we have been there done that already.
Applogist site? I have no way of knowing, just as you have no way of knowing that Albert Pike had orgies with young boys. That is unless you were one of the young boys.
OK, InCH - ya got me there. I was not one of those young boys Pike buggered in the woods. Or maybe he didn't. Likewise I was not alive during World War I or World War II, but I have good reason to believe they happened, though perhaps not nearly as much for the reasons we have been told.
And actually you do have a good way of finding out, but it would require you to take a look outside the apologists propaganda and look at what non-apologists have to say, compare the two and make a judgment. The same as I did when deciding who to believe among the health freedom groups.
The site you referenced is a Masonic apologist site. So, OK they did post about Pike and 33rd degree Masons. The posted total whitewash and fluff. Look at what the other side has to say to get an idea of their ludicrous attempt at cover up regarding Pike:
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/albertpikeandkkk.html
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/index.php?action=Confession_Leo_Taxilm_and_...
And they contend that one of the most famous founding Masons who has been described by other Masons as "the Masoic Shakespeare" and even "the Masonic Pope" is a obscure Mason that most members are never even aware existed? They are so busted!
When it comes to 33rd degree Masons, I don't have to look elsewhere to refute the cover-up garbage they posted. I was a member of a Masonic youth organization. Both my legal guardians were 32nd degree Masons. Yes, by and large the rank and file Masons below the 33rd Degree are good civic minded folks for the most part (notwithstanding that one of my legal guardians was once a member of the KKK, as was his father before him).
In many instance I am afraid that the same cannot be said about those above the 32nd degree. I am still chilled by memories of a report from what I consider an unimpeachable source of a 33rd Degree Mason father's deathbed confession to his son. Why would a father lie to his son and warn him away from Freemasonry with descriptions of the ritual of spitting on the cross and disavowing Christ, revelations that beyond the 32nd degree the Masons worship Baal and that one of the initiation rites involved human sacrifice (they took a drunk homeless person, tied him to the railroad track and watched him be cut into by the train)?
No, I was not there either - but I have no doubt that what was described was true and that it is unlikely to have been an isolated incidence.
"I also give people the benefit of the doubt until it has been proven that any assertions are backed up with irrefuteable facts."
Hoo boy, InCh - you're leaving yourself wide open with that one, given some of the stuff you posted during the height of the debate over the election farce between the illegal alien and his old guard running mate and the designated washed up runner up and his publicity stunt running mate! Can we just agree that some of the stuff you posted was not quite irrefutable? LOL!
But hey, at least we agree that the only reason secret societies exist is to keep things secret from the public at large and that really is not likely to be a good thing.
DQ
When I met Ron Paul I sensed a good heart, but I am not infallible.
Much easier to judge a person by their actions. Aside from the newsletters which Ron Paul did not likely actually write but should never have allowed to go out in his name, Ron Paul's words and actions have consistently been those of a strict constitutionalist who would abolish the Fed and the illegal IRS, revoke the Patriot laws that have cost liberty with no real security in return, restore individual freedoms and demand a sensible financial system based on true value and paying as you go. THAT is his message, not a civil war based on race. I can live with the newsletter mistakes and no one else's message even comes close that I can tell.
DQ
Actually we have debated everything Rudi has posted ad nauseum, including going to some of the websites he copied and pasted from and finding that the large majority of the posters there, including minorities who have known and worked for Ron Paul, disagree with the conclusions he has reached.
Once again, why is it that virtually no major politician of any color and no major figure of any color has condemned Ron Paul for being a racist? Why is it that his colleagues in Congress consider him to be one of the most honest and principled members? Where is the racism in the articles we know for certain he has authored or in his speeches?
Rudi refuses to call it debate when others disagree and when they do disagree he labels them as racists who want a civil war and/or have a bullet for anyone who is brown, a Muslim, etc. Is THAT what he considers debate? I call it and the continued bashing of a guy who will never be President a fixation.
Maybe we should have our own vote. How many people here are in favor of a civil war based on race? Who amongst us has a bullet for anyone based on their skin color, religious beliefs, politidal beliefs or sexual preferences? Not me, Never have and never will, no matter how many labels are applied.
First it was Ron Paul the racist. Now it is Ron Paul the controlled opposition of the NWO despite an entire career that says just the opposite. If he were the controlled opposition, then why did the NWO controlled media have such a coordinated effort to trivialize him and hide his message?
What next - are we who continue to support the bulk of his actual message and actual deeds going to be labeled secret NWO operatives or reptilian shape shifters who have our own secret Bohemian Grove meetups where we cavort naked and worship a giant owl?
I don't hate anyone or any group, though I surely do hate some people's actions.
DQ