Re: The Four Amazing Juices (Kevin Trudeau Discussion) 7/23/2007 924919

Re: The Four Amazing Juices

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Dquixote1217 Views: 13,419
Published: 17 y

This is a reply to # 924,261

Re: The Four Amazing Juices

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It is refreshing to see you post something besides a Trudeau cheerleading message, Matt - and you are to be credited for your effort. I even gave you a positive vote. But before I shut up (smile):

When a report is full of adjectives like "amazing" and praises like "elixir for the ages", your "staggering amount of info" could be viewed as a staggering amount of propaganda. Especially if you look at what the hype has to say: A juice which all by itself can cure disease? Not likely unless you incorporate the juice into an overall program of healthy diet, exercise, removal and avoidance of toxins, elimination of stress, sunshine, pure water, etc. I am not doubting any single testimonial - but I think that when a person decides to use any natural juice or supplement, they probably have made a decision to adopt an overall healthier lifestyle and they change more than just adding a single juice to their diet and lifestyle.

I understand that you can find no lack of "evidence" to support the MLM juices on the PRO juice sites. They have thousands of websites in the MLM mix that are loaded with doctor's reports, testimonials and over-blown hype from paid supporters, investors and MLM members. Do you think there might be a chance that Carl Lewis got some consideration for this quote:

One of the most impressive recommendations of Goji is by Nine-time Olympic Gold Medalist Carl Lewis who said, "As a professional athlete, my very livelihood depends upon being in the very best physical health possible. That's why I choose to use a cutting-edge, anti-aging and wellness product like Goji juice."

"cutting-edge, anti-aging and wellness product" all in one sentence - yeah, I'm thinking there was some compensation for Carl in there somewhere. LOL.

By the way, did you happen to check to see how many of these doctors have a financial interest in the products they tout? I happen to know that doctors are heavily involved in MLM health products - the company I am a consultant to has had several offers from doctors to promote health products they are investors in or MLM members of - and I advise them to turn down every single offer. MLM's are more about making money than they are about making people healthy.

And Matt, how can you possibly quote studies at PubMed when you don't know the correct spelling? In the instance of Goji, let's look at what PubMed really has to offer (per Ralph Moss):

PubMed, the US government's comprehensive database of 15 million medical journal citations, lists a total of 102 articles on Lycium species. Fifty of these are on Lycium barbarum. Most of these concern laboratory tests, and only five articles even mention cancer. If we restrict our consideration to just clinical trials (structured studies involving human subjects) there are precisely two. One is irrelevant to our purposes, since it does not concern cancer (Breithaupt 2004).

This leaves a single report of a clinical trial in cancer using a goji extract. It was carried out by G.W. Cao and colleagues at the Second Military Medical University in Shanghai and published in a Chinese medical publication, the Chinese Journal of Oncology. Seventy-nine patients with advanced cancer were enrolled in a trial in which they were treated with lymphocyte-activated killer (LAK) cells + interleukin-2 (IL-2). But some of the patients also received polysaccharides (complex sugars) derived from Lycium barbarum (abbreviated LBP).

Initial results of the treatment from 75 evaluable patients indicated that "objective regression of cancer was achieved in patients with malignant melanoma, renal cell carcinoma, colorectal carcinoma, lung cancer, nasopharyngeal carcinoma." It also was supposedly effective in "malignant hydrothorax" (which presumably refers to pleural effusion, a collection of fluid within the chest cavity which frequently accompanies thoracic cancers).

According to this Chinese article, the response rate of patients treated with LAK + IL-2 alone was 16.1 percent. But when goji extract was given to some patients the response rate jumped to 40.9 percent. The authors also state that the remission in patients treated with LAK + IL-2 plus goji extract lasted significantly longer and led to a more marked increase in natural killer (NK) cell activity than LAK + IL-2 alone.

"The results indicate that LBP can be used as an adjuvant in the biotherapy [i.e., immunotherapy] of cancer," the authors concluded.

This is a potentially important finding. A juice that can double the response rate to standard cancer treatment would be worth many multiples of $44. However, there remain numerous questions about this clinical trial that might be difficult to answer, since all there is to go on is an abstract in PubMed. The full article is in a Chinese journal that does not maintain an English-language website. Dr. Gao is the co-author of just seven PubMed articles, none of which gives his contact information.

If, however, I could interview Dr. Gao here are some of the questions I would ask:

    * How many patients were treated in each group?
    * What exactly is your standard for an "objective regression"?
    * How much longer did the remissions last in the goji-added group than the control group?
    * Was there any effect on disease-free or overall survival?
    * Have there been any follow-up studies using goji with drugs in a single form of the disease?

Additionally, this Chinese study uses a non-standard therapy for many of these cases, i.e. LAK + IL-2. This was a "hot" therapy in the 1980s and early 1990s, primarily because of the advocacy of Steven Rosenberg, MD, of the National Cancer Institute (Rosenberg 1993). But is rarely used today. Indeed, the NCI has stated that the addition of LAK to IL-2 has "not improved response rates or durable remissions sufficiently to merit the expense and complexity of this therapy" (NCI 2004).

Even the NCI's clinical trials database does not list a current clinical trial using these once popular treatments (Kimura 1997). So this small goji trial uses an outdated therapy. It would, however, be interesting to see what goji extract could do when added to the current treatment for a group of patients with biopsy-confirmed cancer of a single type.

Therefore, although I am intrigued by Dr. Gao's findings, I would still recommend that patients hold onto their $44 until there is better documentation of the drink's purported effects.

That certainly does not say Goji is bad. In fact it might indicate that it is tremendous. But it is far from definitive, just as there are far from any abundance of articles, or any definitive articles, on Goji at PubMed.

I could go on and on here, Matt, but there is no need - because as I posted earlier, I happen to agree that the juices are good ones, very good ones in fact, with the exception that it is my opinion that Noni is way overblown, overpriced and tastes like furniture polish. The other ones are good to great ones - if only they could tone down the hype, they would still qualify as pretty amazing to me.

As I stated earlier, I drink acai and I would drink the others (except Noni) if the prices were right (even at the $20 you mentioned, that is still about three times too much, imo). Pomegranate, blueberry and dark grape juice with grapeseed extract suit me just fine and, though not cheap compared to apple juice, are less expensive than the hyped ones and are loaded with anti-oxidants, resveratrol, bioflavanoids and more. At a tiny fraction of the price, green tea is also loaded with anti-oxidants and health benefits.

Bottom line to me: If you have the money, the juices really are good ones to incorporate into an overall healthy program. Just don't fall for the hype and depend on them or anything else to be a magic bullet all by itself. There are lots of good natural bullets out there, including things you ingest, things you do, and things you don't ingest or do. None of them are magic, but the more of them you have in your gun the better your chances are of beating disease and illness and maintaining good health and a robust immune system.

OK, now I will shut up. Can't promise for how long though . . .