Re: Cause of Breast Cancer: Estrogen Dominance or Microbes?

Thanks, Hv! I'm beginning to see the issues now. I've been Googling the other side - the opinions *against* progesterone. I am alarmed in particular by this article:

http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/progesteronecancer.html#cancer_risks_revealed

It says that progesterone is more carcinogenic than estrogen! Is that true? I wonder if these researchers are funded by Big Pharma and so are creating biased or untrue results.

I have not looked in to all the research on it but yes, progesterone is carcinogenic. One thing I did not see them mention is the fact that progesterone activates cancer causing HPV viruses.  Therefore, progesterone can initiate cancers as where estrogen only appears to stimulate the growth of already initiated cancers.

I am glad they also brought up that commercial progesterone is not "natural".  The term "natural progesterone" has been pet peeve of mine for quite a while since the word natural is only used to give the product a sense of safety.

[Quote Hv]
Progesterone will antagonize estrogen, but it is also a precursor for estrogen. If enough of the built up progesterone converts to estrogen then you would still be back to the same initial problem of more estrogen than progesterone to control it.
[/Quote Hv]

For elderly women who have very little progesterone, such as my aunt (73 years old) who has estrogen dominant breast cancer, does this apply?

Yes.  Just because a woman is past menopause this does not mean she is not producing estrogen.  And in order to produce estrogen the women must first have progesterone that will eventually convert to estrogen.

What determines how much progesterone is converted to estrogen?

Progesterone must go through various steps to become estrogen.  One of those steps in the production of testosterone.  Then an enzyme known as aromatase converts the testosterone in to estrogen.  The amount of estrogen produced will depend on the level of aromatase activity.

If the progesterone is from the body's own production (i.e. induced by Vitex and not coming from external sources), doesn't the body regulate the conversion so that not too much is converted to estrogen as to be dangerous?

Vitex will raise progesterone, but the body will do this slowly.  And in smaller doses the vitex will not stimulate the production of large amounts of progesterone.  The body may convert some of this in to estrogen if there is a little excess, but this is still vastly different than the major and sudden surge of progesterone that progesterone creams cause.

[Quote Hv]
Supplementing is way different than allowing the body to generate its own. Progesterone creams allow progesterone to build up in the fat tissue leading to progesterone dominance and its side effects. Just like any other hormone replacement therapy levels cannot be controlled and thus the risk of side effects is much greater. If there is an imbalance then there are natural and safer ways to correct the imbalance rather than risking imbalance from synthetic pharmaceutical progesterone supplementation.
[/Quote Hv]

Vitex simply induces the body to produce more progesterone on its own. Does it have these side effects, too?

If in high enough doses yes.  This is why I don't recommend high doses of vitex.  High doses of vitex have been traditionally used to suppress the libido, thus the other name chaste tree berry.  The decrease in libido is from the increase in progesterone.

Could Vitex probably induce too much progesterone production in my aunt as to make her progesterone dominant?

Not unless she is taking large doses, which is not very likely.  The recommended doses on bottles of capsules is actually too low for this.

[Quote Hv]
The progesterone is not natural. It is synthesized in a lab. The fact that they keep blatantly lying about this fact calls the rest of their claims in to question.
[/Quote Hv]

I thought it was Progestin that was synthetic, not the bioidentical progesterone processed out of diosgenin plant sterol from wild yam, which is what is referred to as "natural progesterone"?

Both are synthetics.  Just because the progesterone starts out from a natural source this does not mean it is natural.  If it were then we would also have to consider plastics made from natural oil as natural.  Or sucralose could be considered natural since it is made using natural sugar that then goes through a 5 step chlorination process.  The sterols from the yam or other sources are chemically altered in to the progesterone making it a synthetic.

[Quote Hv]
Ovarian cancer is another HPV associated cancer, and progesterone activates the HPV virus.
[/Quote Hv]

Does progesterone do this only if it is dominant or even if it is not?

Progesterone can do this even without progesterone dominance.  There is more to cancer though such as immune suppression.  Simply activating cancer viruses does not guarantee cancer growth.

[Quote Hv]
Vitex in low enough doses would not significantly increase progesterone. But people tend to think if a little is good more must be better.
[/Quote Hv]

How long would it be safe to take Vitex?

It is not as much the time as the amount.  

The Vitex that I bought is 400 mg per capsule. I bought 3 bottles with 100 capsules per bottle for a total of 300 capsules. I'm planning a dosage for my aunt of 3 capsules daily for 10 weeks. After 10 weeks, the dosage is to be reduced to one capsule daily. Calculating, it would take 23 weeks to consume the 3 bottles. Is this safe enough? If not, what dosage and length of time would you suggest?

That is perfectly safe.  Three capsules a day is actually a very low dose.

In summary, the most important thing I'd like to know is, should I return the Vitex (which I would not like to do at this point) or can it still be useful?

Useful?  To a very small extent.  There are many things that can be done that would be so much more beneficial such as the bitters and B vitamin sources or TMG to help with lowering estrogen levels.  And building up the flora to assist with the breakdown of estrogen metabolites so they are no reabsorbed.