YAY! Telman!! Can you PLEASE help me understand? Re: All very interesting, but....

Telman,

I'm SO glad to "see" you! I sure wouldn't want anyone to become afraid of flushing (and I certainly don't want to encourage any kind of fear!) Fear...BAD thing. One of my favorite "life quotes" is...'Perfect knowledge casts out all fear' :) For me, natural health is everything about the body and how all the systems interact...so questions related to the liver, gallbladder and bile (and hence digestive tract and akaline/acid balance) come forth and were posted here. I saw this thread (and how it related to this one: //www.curezone.org/forums/m.asp?f=362&i=16981#i ) and thought maybe we could somehow combine information and get down to the 'nitty gritty of the whole thing'. I hope my post didn't hurt anyone or cause anyone to have fear.

If you would/could (please, please, pretty please) read & review the information that I posted (which is from the thread above, which I copied below), and tell me what I'm missing or don't understand. The bile pH is 7.5 - 8.5 (which is on the alkaline side of neutral)...so bile should not be capable of producing ANY type of burning sensation (to my logic and understanding of basic science). But the alkalinity WOULD be capable of disrupting the acid base and inflaming the lining of the stomach, causing more strong stomach acid to be created in order to keep the stomach acid (?). Please pardon my "natural health bias", but Mayo Clinic? Isn't there somewhere else we/I can access for information to lead me to greater understanding? I wasn't too happy with Mayo Clinic when I read this: "Unlike acid reflux, bile reflux usually can't be controlled by changes in diet or lifestyle. Instead, bile reflex is most often managed with certain medications or, in severe cases, with surgery. Neither solution is uniformly effective, however, and some people continue to experience bile reflux even after treatment." (please understand, I have several family members that 'live & die' by the words of Mayo Clinic...and a couple of them -including my dad- are very sick right now because Mayo won't "approve" the alternative treatments that would work for them and heal them) So right now, "Mayo" is a HUGE red flag in my world.

Anyway, the rest is below...I surely would/do appreciate any time you could spare to help me understand this more completely.

Blessings,

Unyquity


Here's the post/thread for which I'm asking for clarification and understanding:
//www.curezone.org/forums/m.asp?f=362&i=16981#i

>>>I understand what you're saying, and all the good information about the digestive tract is 'right on the money' in my book! And I read the Mayo link about "bile reflux"...but that's not making logical sense to me, at all (but it does make "allopathic sense"...if there is such a thing).

Yes, I have been so sick as to have vomited bile...in fact, I've only been sick enough once in the last twenty years to throw up at all, but that one time was a doosey...landed me in the ER after THREE DAYS of non-stop vomiting. 'Twas no fun at ALL - yuck. And it burned like fire...but I'm almost positive the "burn" didn't come from the bile, and here's why:

We've got pH levels that produce a burning sensation and those that don't/can't...basically the first 2-3 numbers on the low end, and the last 2-3 numbers on the high end are the only extremes that can cause a burning sensation we can feel (unless one is super-sensitive). So I'm fairly sure that a pH level of 3 thru 9(ish) doesn't produce ANY type of burning sensation. Our saliva hangs around neutral at 7...orange juice 3.5; coffee is 5.0; milk is 6.5; Epsom Salts 6.5-7; pure water is 7.0; bile is 7.5 - 8.5; Sea Salt water is 8; hand soap is 9-10.

As you know when mixing solutions, the strength and quanity of one pH level neutralizes/effects the pH of another. If you mix equal parts pH 3 and pH 10 (basically), you end up with a solution that's pH 'in the middle'...6.5-ish. So if you mix equal parts stomach acid 2 with bile 8, you end up with pH5...which doesn't add up to the extreme burn one feels when "vomiting bile". However, there's one MAJOR VARIABLE to consider:

The stomach HAS to keep a ph level of strongly acidic...and it keeps adding/producing strong acid when it has an incoming alkaline. The second an alkaline enters the stomach, the stomach goes into major production of stomach acid (both for digestion, and because the stomach environment HAS to stay very acidic). When I was researching the alleged "bile burn" after being sick (which is what I thought caused the burn), I read that when bile backs up into the stomach, the stomach goes into major production of stomach acid in order to neutralize the bile and maintain it's normal acidity level...and what we feel as a burn if/when we vomit/refux is actually the stronger, more intense burn of the fresh/large quanities of pH2 stomach acid...rather than the alkaline-side-of-neutral bile of around 8...which the acid from the stomach just diluted to even LESS of a potential for 'burn'. So you end up with a stomach full of a large quantity of truly burning pH2 stomach acid, mixed with the even MORE neutralized bile. One SEES yellow-green bile vomitus and assumes "the burn" comes from the yellow/green substance (who wouldn't?), but in actuality, the yellow/green bile has been saturated with the more acidic/stronger stomach acid, and it's the stomach acid that causes the burn.

I hope I'm making sense here/explaining it so all can understand my logic/thinking. If this doesn't make sense, or isn't correct, PLEASE let me know your thoughts, as I'd much rather be "corrected & correct" rather than "not corrected & incorrect" :o)
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