I like a lot of the information I'm reading about vegans and flushing, and I strongly encourage folks on those types of diets (vegetarian, vegan and raw) to experience them for themselves, as I think liver flushing is of TREMENDOUS benefit. There are, however a few items I would humbly like to share just to further education and understanding of the raw vegan diet.
First of all, I believe everyone should discover what diet and foods works best for them. We are not all created the same, and some thrive on one and others thrive on something entirely different. In my view, we should endeavor to learn how to reconnect with our ability to communiate with our bodies so we can "listen" to what it's telling us we need. For example, after you get past the false cravings caused by addictive chemicals added to our foods or from our own bad habits, if we listen to our cravings, our body will abosolutely tell us what we need. Instead of rigidly self-imposing a forced regimen that we have recently been sold on from an external point of view, we can simply tune in and our bodies will tell us what's working, what's not, and what's needed. My experience of the people I know who do that, is one of supreme health, absence of illness or disease, youthfulness, full vital energy, and a spiritual/emotional centeredness. They radiate. The people I see who look ill, perhaps their skin is sallow or broken out, they are too skinny, have no energy, and equally bad tempers and emotions, are generally trying to mentally force a program that they are committed to for whatever reason despite the signs that it's not quite working. We are the only species on this planet confused about what to eat. That's a problem, and it's not one-size-fits-all solution. I don't think we can ever find the answer from externally based dictates.
With regards to raw vegans, there is an athlete who is 60 years old and has been raw vegan for 40 years with the body of a buff 20-year old. His name is Storm and his family has a website www.TheGardenDiet.com. He is an excellent example of athletic prowress on this diet. Also, Tim Van Orden, the raw running guy, started running for the first time in his life at 40 and starting from severe illness, and in 4 years he is one of the top contenders in national races and has actually WON first place in the nation as of Fall 2008. He is now competing in the very top levels with professional, life-long athletes and is now beating them after only 4 years of training. Yes, they busted on him for the raw vegan diet, now they he's beaten them they are opening their minds and willing to at least research and consider the athletic implecations. I personally know him, and he does NOT spend all of his time making food. He just mostly eats huge salads and fruit, and only 3 times a day like normal people. They are just very BIG. Most of us raw vegans who have it dialed in spend as much or less time doing food prep as people on the SAD diet. Yes, there are some crazy complicated recipes out there, but most long-timers rarely do those. They are too time-consuming and not as healthy in the view of athletes.
I, myself, have been raw for 10 years, and my performance in martial arts wipes the mat with the big hulky bouncer-type military guys, and literally without breaking a sweat. And I'm 15 to 20 years older than most of them. I do raw, flushes/cleanses, reiki and herbs.
The measurement of success of any diet is not just about getting skinny, It's also about getting strong, healthy, living longer, being more calm and centered, and generally greatly improving your overall experience of life.
There is also a book titled "Rainbow Green LIve Food Cuisine" by Dr. Gabriel Cousins (an MD AND an ND) that contains the most medically researched evidence I've yet to see on this diet. It includes examples of some raw vegetarians and vegans living to the age of 120-150, as well as discusses remote native peoples with this type of life span. I would recommend you read it so that you have more information to consider in your arguements. There IS evidence to take in and consider. His recipes are crazy long, but he is the best medical and scientific resource on the topic out there. His medical center was featured in the recent documentary "Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days."
Yes, there are self-appointed "gurus" who are selling something, and not everything they say is true. My suggestion is to research every source available, talk to people and experiment, and then form your own conclusions. You DO have to sift through hidden motivations and partial or false truths, get past the crazy Nazi-type religious zealotry to get at it, but there really are some incredible gems to be found. Yes, there is confusion, debates within the raw community (meat, honey, agave nectar, cacao, irridated coconuts), complicated recipes, easy ones, success stories, and those not so much--all of it's there. Again, it's about learning enough to sift through the info. But in my opinion, it's so totally worth it. I was wheel-chair bound with a spinal cord injury and partial paralysis, and now I can kick a bouncer's a**. And with style. That, and all those other little things went away, plus tons of other extra juicy benefits that are just icing on the cake.
As for vegans with far more stones, that's not been my experience personally. My diet is not exceptionally low in fat. I have seen a ton of sickly looking vegans/vegetarians, so perhaps for them what you said is true. Just don't lump us all into one category, because there is just as much debate within the raw community, many of us are extraordinarily successful with it, and all of us who are unlocking the secrets linking diet and health are still learning and experimenting.
And one final note, it is SERIOUSLY not cool for one group to dis another and get Davidian-preachy about it. How 'bout we all pool our information and sort out the good, the bad, and what works for each of us personally? If we each demand the freedom to choose the diet path of our choice, we need to each allow the same for others without freaking out and proselytizing about it. Your enjoyment of your own discovery won't be weakend because someone else has a different opinion. Just enjoy what you've found, cherish it, and share only when they genuinely want to know.