Re: coffee why not

>>>I fear I didn't express myself correctly/coherently or you misinterpreted my intention/overall meaning... either way, I'll attempt to clarify.  I was answering a poster/s that were concerned about drinking coffee during a fast, and wanting to know if drinking coffee on an empty stomach (I'm assuming all day/night, in place of food) was better than food in the stomach

 

Fair enough.  I knew that was the case, but who are we to judge whether a little coffee every day or any herb or plant may harm the fast? Sure maybe too much does, but 1 cup? Why doesn’t tea harm the fast? A lot of teas have caffeine but they are perfectly fine on this board. Some people here take the Lower Bowel and other herbs during the fast, how do we know that doesn’t make you more acid or have detrimental effects on the fast? It seems you’ve taken the studies which show the negatives of coffee in extreme use and assume that it is a poison and cannot be used at all.

 

>>>You make it sound like I was trying to make myself out to be the "Big Coffee Sherriff of Curezone County" :), and that wasn't my intent in any way! 

 

Haha! That’s funny. And I’m the Big Bad Coffee Defender ;-). It’s a showdown!

 

>>> I am 46 years old and have been a learner/student of natural healing, protocols, techniques, and use of herbs since I was in my young teenage years.

 

Great. I hope you’re still open-minded. Most aren’t who’ve been involved that long. They usually end up biased politically, closed minded, brain washed against everything status quo, and then believe everything they read online as true. Sure, some of it they are correct about, but some it is BS alarmism.

 

>>> if you have reasoning or evidence of ANY type that would help me to learn how coffee does not 'elevate the blood sugar, raise blood pressure, leach vitamins, increase body acidity, have addicting qualities, increase stress, decrease bone/mineral density' (or any of the other things that others posted), I am the first person that wants a chance to read and learn how I might be in error!

 

That’s not the point and not what I wrote. I never stated there is evidence to disprove your findings. My point was there are studies that show positive/beneficial elements to coffee consumption as well (just Google it). I don’t discount the negatives you’ve cited, I only believe these are facts that are revealed under EXTREME USE of the substance, and therefore, the negatives are somewhat overblown, and I suspect that’s because there is a culture of anti-big business on all “alternative” ”natural cure” web sites, and in the movement in general.  They’re rationale? Coffee is big business; therefore it is an automatic poison. I’m just not necessarily convinced of that, although I am against harmful additives placed in coffee by manufacturers. Best to buy the pure stuff.

 

>> ...as do sugar cane, opium, belladonna, cyanide & cocaine

 

Correct, but your lengthy delve into unnaturally refined cocaine is lost on me. What relevance does that have to hot water poured over natural coffee grinds to make a drink? Is that a fair comparison to chemically processed cocaine or opium??

 

>> Coffee purchased in a 'normal' supermarket is indeed doctored with additives and is a highly processed product

 

Well, ok, that may be true but you need to make clear that, THAT is the poison and not Coffee in and of itself necessarily, and that there are sources of naturally manufactured coffee grinds that are available on the market, otherwise what are we arguing about? Coffee? Or Chemically processed coffee? 

 

>> As for the "caffeine high", I consider (as do most all students of natural healing) that a state of elevated blood sugar, elevated blood pressure and elevated energy that is obtained by consuming a highly processed "natural" product...to indeed be "artificial" to our bodies. 

 

I know what you mean but it is a poor choice of words. There’s nothing “artificial” about it. Too much of a natural substance (even water) gives you a natural albeit unwanted result. It may indeed be “bad” but it is not “artificial”. A synthetically developed drug that gives you these negatives I could entertain arguments that it is “artificial”.

 

>> I certainly don't/can't/won't recommend drinking it on an empty stomach in place of food to accomplish a 'healing' fast

 

You know, I really think you’re overstating the question a little. I could be wrong, but I don’t think the poster was actually asking, “can they drink coffee in place of food to accomplish a fast”.  Accomplish a fast with coffee?? That seems a little extreme. I got the sense they were wondering if they could have a cup in the mornings WHILE THEY WERE ON A FAST.  I've done it and still get good fasting results. Therefore, I’m not sure that would be so bad, although I agree it would have a dulling effect on your fasting results if you were to have coffee in place of each meal (i.e. Too much).

 

>> I fear you picked a bad example to make your point - because Cayenne pepper is small or large doses rarely has a negative effect on the body...and the effect of Cayenne pepper on the body IS EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL and extremely different than coffee.

 

Absolutely disagree. You can’t make those claims. Is the mainstream population taking Cayenne every day in a similar manner to coffee? Do we really know what Cayenne will do to the body or any potential addictive properties (not necessarily psych) that may develop in the body over long-term use? There aren’t studies that show long-term use of Cayenne because people aren’t consuming it consistently like coffee. So, indeed, it may be a bad example, but you’re comparing in a worse way. You’re pointing out ALL substance effects and I was just comparing that they are 2 natural substances that are stimulants each with an acid-forming property on the body. Do you see the difference? Anyway, even MH criticizes Dr Christopher’s consistent use of Cayenne, so I’m still not convince it was a bad example for the purposes of my argument.

 

In closing, I’m not quite sure why you’ve gone on to lecture me about your age and how long you studied natural healing etc. Perhaps I poked an insecure nerve, which was not my intent. You’re probably much smarter than me, and I don’t disagree with all that facts you brought up about coffee, or intend to disprove them, I’m only suggesting that maybe your view isn’t quite as bad as you make it out to be, and that perhaps the original poster could still consume coffee in a beneficial way, much like other herbs espoused here.

 

Anyway, my primary reason for posting was to make people think a little and not necessarily assume everything is pure gospel from the experts here (including MH). Some of it they are right-on about, but the dangerous part is to assume they are right about ALL just because they are right about some. Anyone reading the thread would have come away with the notion that coffee is bad, its poison, and stay away from it entirely. And I don’t agree with that. 

I’m skeptical, and that has earned me some enemies on this web site that follow me around and check all my posts as unhelpful. They view me as the enemy because I question some things and don’t fall over myself believing everything. That’s fine they are afraid of me challenging them. I’m ok with that. I will continue to post what I believe. You had the decency and courage to reply (a very good reply) and I appreciate that. Thanks!

 

Best,

PB