Hi #38976,

I'm always glad to hear news (and to learn) about fighting alcoholism using scientific/medical approaches rather than just vague, spiritual, "group-wishing"-based approaches.

The kudzu worked for me almost instantaneously. It supposedly has several active compounds in it: some of which lessen your hangover, and others which work on reducing those later cravings. I still remain shocked that an herb which has been in use in Asia for over 2000 years is still scoffed at by the american medical establishment. I would speculate that more money can be made from peddling pharmaceuticals like Naltrexone and Campral, than selling kudzu, and that might be at least one reason why the good ole USA doesn't support herbal remedies. I marvel at some of these new drugs, like CAMPRAL, which have only been tested for 20 years, at the most. Really, which would you prefer to try first, one that has been in use for 2000 years or one that has been around for only 20? I think the Chinese made a really hot discovery a few millenia ago! It's a crying shame that making money comes before health in this country.

I use a brand called Planetary Herbals, and the product is called "Kudzu Recovery". This is actually a blend of kudzu with other liver-support herbs. Within a few days of using it, I didn't have any cravings or at least they became managable, to an insultingly-easy extent. In the begining, for the first couple of weeks, I took it everyday, just to feel safe. Now, I just take it on those days where I know I will be tempted to drink, especially on Fridays and Saturdays. I'd say that within an hour of taking it, the cravings go away, like if I wake up from a weekend nap (a day nap is always an alcoholic trigger for me, for some reason.) It is also important to take liver-support herbs like milk thistle, to make sure the liver is functioning well, and obviously healthy food and exercise are important to.

For me, personally, another curezone gem I found was about the role of serotonin in depression, low mood, addiction, etc. I started taking 5-HTP to make sure I had enough serotonin, and this helped me sleep better than I had in years, and my mood improved greatly. Now I can remember my dreams. And the overall behavioral change really was like night and day, it was that amazing. The people who know me and see me everyday (like at work) realized something had changed in me, but they didn't know what it was. Normally I was very shy and retiring, but now I've become a lot more extroverted. Perhaps you don't have depression, so maybe 5-HTP (or tryptophane) supplements aren't for you, but if you want to learn more, curezone has a Depression forum where serotonin-defficiency model has been discussed. The tryptophane that you get from protein foods, btw, is converted to 5-HTP by entero-chromaffin (EC) cells in your intestine, which is then sent to the brain to be converted to serotonin, which is essential for a good night's rest. I can only speculate that the EC cells in your intestine can't be all that happy about having to come into contact with alcohol metabolites, every time you go on a binge. I'm tempted to speculate that maybe excessive alcohol use might irritate these intestinal EC cells enough to at least temporarily stop making the 5-HTP precursor to serotonin. But that's just speculation. Anyway, all I know is that when I take 5-HTP, my Depression goes away, I sleep better, and my mood is so much better, and I feel so much better about life.

Since you are a recovering alcoholic, #38976, you might benefit from learning about the liver flush, which is very popular on this curezone website. Since alcoholism is a problem which directly affects the liver, it might be worthwhile for you (and for any alcoholic) to make sure you clean out your liver. From what I learned from this forum, consuming pharmaceutical drugs like tylenol, eating meat products, and drinking alcohol all can lead to the formation of clotted bile stones which eventually clog the passageways of the liver. When the liver is clogged, it loses function, shutting down, ultimately leading to chirrosis. And wouldn't that scenario sound particularly scary to the average alcoholic?

Andreas Moritz has a book called "the amazing liver and gallbladder flush" which I recommend to you, if you want to learn more.

For the past 3 months, I've been doing a Liver Flush every 2 weeks, roughly (in the beginning, I did a flush every week). I found that although doing the flush did not dispell any alcohol cravings, it did at least improve my overall health and energy levels. The Liver Flush has helped me digest food better, and I know that ultimately that will contribute positively to my sobriety. Unfortunately, the road to better health seems to be a complex one, but I really have made more progress in my physical and mental health from what I've learned at curezone.com, than from any other source. If you have been abusing your liver with booze, then you should strongly consider doing liver flushes. So far I've done 9 flushes, and some of them have produced some really big stones. ((Make sure you take a look at some of the liver stones in the curezone photogallery!))

You can find general info about Liver Flushes here: //www.curezone.org/cleanse/liver/default.asp

You can find the support forum for Liver Flushing here. It's good because you can ask questions and compare notes with other people who are also in the process of flushing: //www.curezone.org/forums/f.asp?f=447

Well, I guess I'll step down from the soapbox now. Hope you'll give the kudzu a try.

Can you please explain more about this "briar rose" stuff, and what you've observed about it so far? I tried googling "briar rose" but didn't get any relevant hits.

Hi #58095, thanks for your response.

You've got a point, that the "oldtimers" who did not have access to certain medical knowledge like kudzu are true stoics for dealing with the alcholism issue. I can only imagine how I would have fared under those circumstances. Probably very badly at that. I've always wanted to be superman, but I can accept the fact that I'm not. My point (and fanaticism, even) is that kudzu is a tried-and-tested means for controlling alcoholism (in conjunction with liver-support herbs like milk thistle, etc.). Think of kudzu as a godsend, without any spiritual strings attached. It's that lucky coin you find on the street that turns your life around. The Chinese have proven this over the past 2000 years. If the stuff didn't work, then they wouldn't have bothered to revere it the way they do, for those millenia. That's a looonnnnnnnnnng time, even longer than the "oldtimers." As Americans, we are total fools to throw this knowledge away or to ignore it, like our society does today.

So ultimately, until you give the kudzu a try yourself, you won't really be able to say if it works or not. (But I'd encourage you to do some reasearch on it and give it a try, and to tell us all about your experiences -- after all, this is curezone, where we are discussing these important issues). Likewise, I wouldn't know what I know about AA until I'd actually gone to meetings and (unsuccessfully)worked with a sponsor.

As someone who is not an old timer (I'm 34, and have been an alcoholic for more than 15 years), perhaps I have not suffered to the extent that some older people/more advanced alcoholics have. But regardless, I have suffered, been lost for years in despair, lost enough friends, family, esteem, and enough physical/mental health to know that I could not continue on the path that I was travelling, otherwise I would die early and miserably. And yes, I'm familiar with that checklist of alcoholic qualities that you kindly listed. Furthermore, as someone who is a scientist, I believe that Science and natural medicine can be used to find cures to disease, if we sincerely apply ourselves to that task.

As a 34 year-old, I also perceive a very heavy cynicism within AA circles, with regards to medical approaches to dealing with the problem. The AA system seems to be very complacent with regards to believing what the doctors of the medical establishment tell them. ((Please remember that curezone exists outside of the common american medical establishment. I only speak now because this is a curezone forum. I would never go to an AA site and say what I say.)) While the alcoholic disease could be considered a "labyrinth of misery", I have to state right out that I find the mental labyrinth surrounding the AA culture to be completely unliveable. In fact, I see the AA structure as a kind of labyrinth in itself, and I reached the point of refusing it a few years ago. But that was a personal decision, I admit.

But here is a caveat: I think that it is great if some folks can reach sobriety through the AA process, and I'm certainly aware that many have (but only 25% of you, isn't that the right statistic???), but my angle is that there must be an alternative, and I belive (perhaps foolishly, but nevertheless...) that with more scientific knowledge of the human physiology, it will someday be possible to suppress alcoholism completely, perhaps with the right regimen of herbs, exercise, diet, etc. In fact, this belief I have animates me and gives me resolve, as a scientist/biologist and also as a fellow alcoholic. From everything I've learned at curezone, I think that we're truly on the edge of reaching that level of control. Doesn't that possibility of finding a natural, possibly herbal (safe) method of alcoholism-suppresion EXCITE you at all? Most responses I've heard so far on this forum are the "no, no, no, it won't work" kind. If we could find a way, like through kudzu and body-cleansing technques, to effectively deal with the alcohol-disease that would mean FREEDOM from that inner insanity that we all know so well.


There are many techniques like liver-flushing and kudzu-usage on curezone which are very radical and novel to the american medical "scene" which are only beginning to penetrate into what is considered "common knowledge." So in that sense, Americans should be very EXCITED about this. You are right, #58095, alcoholism as you defined it so clearly in your message is "uncurable", but at least with something like kudzu, you are able to shield yourself from alcohol, quite easily. I tried it out for the past 10 weeks with very satisfying results. I assert that having an actual, physical shield that is proven to work is much more desireable than well-wishes and campfire mumbo-jumbo. But the good part is that we are all free to chose our own defenses.

Analogously, the diabetic shields himself with insulin. At one point, there was no hope for diabetics because there was no concept of injectable insulin. They knew eventually that they'd go blind, lose limbs, and ultimately die at an early age. But now diabetics can take their insulin and lead functional lives. Can you even imagine the joy of the first diabetics who received artificial insulin and watched their own heads become clear as a result of their blood Sugar stabilizing? They might not be able to eat sweets and swill booze, but at least they get out and do so many, many, many other more important things, so perhaps an insulin shot is better than no shot at all. The insulin changed everything for them, didn't it?

My point is that because you bothered to come to curezone, you should not abandon your tried-and-tested AA approach, but not be afraid of supplementing it with other techniques, like liver cleansing. For example, #58095, have you removed your liver stones yet? Did it even occur to you that maybe you'd feel better if you bothered to put in the year or so that it takes to purge all of the bilestones? Imagine the improved energy levels, and improved sleep and mental alertness? What about that? What does AA have to say about cleaning up the billiary metabolic waste left behind in your liver by the many years of alcohol consumption? Why is the Liver Flush not part of the 12 step program? Seems to me there should be at least 13 steps now to work on.

I'm suprised that so many folks on this forum think that such therapeutic agents are not possible for alcoholism, that our ONLY hope is the labyrinthine mumbo-jumbo. If the mumbo-jumbo helps you, then great. But as someone who hasn't become that cynical yet, I intend to take my kudzu to keep my mind away from alcohol cravings/obsessions, get excercise and stabilize my blood sugar, for a start. I promise you that I will get the last of the liver stones out of me. And believe you me, when I learn of newly discovered relationships between alcholism and adrenal fatigue caused by allergies, for example, I will take that stuff seriously, and spread the word, too. If I can avoid alcoholic relapses just by paying attention to something simple like allergies, then hey, that's easy enough to do. It's time to leave the dark ages behind us, and to use the good knowledge that is coming to light here. We might not be able to get it from our doctors, but it seems to me there's just an amazing WEALTH of information lurking on these CureZone Forums , that could do some amazing, unforseeable things for alcoholics like us.

"Ohhhhh, but it just wouldn't work."

LOL

Ok, I'll shut up now. Thanks for listening.

it is very confusing to me that in a site dedicated to researching alterantive options, there would be so much criticism of the very same: research.

The basis for CureZone is that we are taking back our choices to find health and balance. The extreme ascerbic responses are what I am afraid of when considering group therapies. I am a gentle soul, and not very capable of responding when confronted with such vehement reproaches.

You're right that this is the AA forum, but I came here because I thought perhaps there would be some information on how to be part of AA in the pure sense of the word: Anonimity. And since Curezone is about alterantive ways of healing, that there would be suggestions or options.

AA is a wonderful organization and works for many, some of whom I know and love. It is fantastic if it is what works for the individual. I do also believe in choices, and totally denying that possibilty seems to close the door of hope...

MadArt (ist)

What is your passion? Painting? Music? Writing? Sculpture? Or do you consider all of life a moving, living work of art? [An intriguing idea]

It is my belief that creativity is a dominant trait in most addicts. This is evidenced by how many musicians, painters, actors etc. suffer from various forms of addictions.

It seems strange, though maybe that momentary loss of inhibition releases the creative spirit, and we are then allowed to think without barriers. Or maybe we are then not afraid to let ourselves be seen through our creations.

That said, what I have found to be equally effective at loosening the creative flow is a combination of thought and sleep. Where I might observe or ponder for long periods, sometimes over a period of several days [Perhaps at night, or just after work]. Just sit and look and sort of absorb the proposed site or object of my next creation, or a work in progress. Then somehow, the thoughts start coming and the flow of ideas is released.

This “incubation” period, can encompass walking the dog, listening to music or simply gazing, or talking it out with others, – oftentimes with God other times with myself.

What is true as well, is that all the colors and the notes and the peals of laughter are much more beautiful when not encumbered by the heaviness of spirit brought on by liquor…

To that end I am considering finding out more about meditation and have began learning some gentle yoga positions. I am thinking these may allow for some of the same results: soothe the soul and free the creative mind. Hopefully another piece of the puzzle.

By the way, I am a lifelong artist of many forms, truly an artist at heart, but somehow have eluded becoming a working artist. There may be time yet. So they say: the best is yet to come.

MadArt (ist)