Well, that didn't work out so well, so trying it again here.
I'm not the one replacing Jerusalem with saints, when it's nations coming against Jerusalem.
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written,“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb....................And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God....
.....These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
For the avoidance of doubt, this post looks better on the other forum, not the .info version.
I just believe that there is a dual meaning. A spiritual one of God and a physical one that satan is trying to mimic.
Now I really am confused. So the 'beloved city' is now a Satanic imitation? And the object of a Satanic onslaught after the end of the millennium? Satan attacking Satan? How does that work exactly?
What am I failing to understand here? Something is seriously adrift somewhere, and I'm not even being deliberately obtuse. I genuinely want to understand, so please clarify.
@ vektek - HELP! Do you understand what refreshed is trying to say here?
I use this colour when it's my own writing.
This when quoting a boarder. But I see red rather than pink, so not sure what's going on there.
This when quoting Scripture, emboldened for emphasis, ....
and for additional emphasis, back to red again.........
and for super duper emphasis, this colour.
I do this purely for clarity, so if it's only served to confuse you, I might hafta recconsider my formatting idiosyncrasies.
Ah, ok. Wondered why/how my formatting could cause such confusion when I go to the trouble of making it as clear as possible. As for how I do it, I mainly use the CK text editor, which is the second button to the right:
If you click the Edit CK button instead of the Edit Text button (which is just a plain text editor), you'll have a lot more editing features at your disposal, which gives you a lot more control over the text. The other advanced editors give you even more features, but I find the CKeditor more than adequate to the task.
Hope that helps sis.
Then just sit back and watch the (ahem) master at work.
Phew! I started to wonder if it was just me. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's totally perplexed by that 'tangled web' refreshed is weaving for us. I think she's really getting her snickers in a twixt with this one. One finds that tends to happen when you try to fit the NT into a preconceived notion of the meaning of Rev. 20, instead of allowing it to throw light on its true meaning.
And thx for the kind words. Glad to be of help to someone at least, even if it isn't refreshed.
'master'
That was a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek, and cryptic reference to a character in one of my favourite tv shows - Dr Who. And a nod to 461, who thinks I'm some kinda mind-control whizz of a 'programmer'. No need to take it to heart, as I hope your wink at least suggests that you haven't.
As for forcing anything down your throat, the points you raise are often those raised by many others of your persuasion, and my detailed replies are therefore intended primarily for information in the time-honoured Q&A tradition. There is no intent to 'convert' you to anything beyond what you, exercising your own free will and critical faculties, are capable of believing for yourself.
The only direct appeal I have ever made to you is to examine your own beliefs in the light of fundamental gospel principles, which I would have thought was no great burden for anyone who professes to be 'in Christ'.
And yes, I still love you regardless of your millennial convictions. You are still my sis. in the faith, and will always remain so. If I have ever given you a different impression, please forgive me.