RE: ...I have no way of analysing it and analysis is likely to cost a lot of money and without that I think it would provide less information than details about the generation process that you used to make it.
I think you misunderstood. The intent was to use the solution in hopes of helping you decide whether or not you'd want to invest in such a process method.
RE: Does it have any control of current via a potentiometer etc?
I've chosen to use current limiting diodes in my own setup since my configuration(electrode size/distance etc) is fixed and where these are very simple to implement. That said, it would be quite possible to substitute this with a variable current limiting circuit should the need arise.
RE: Does it have some form of stirrer
The answer is yes, as a stirrer is integral in the production of high quality colloidal silver solutions. - ie, dispersing ions from the anode boundary etc
RE: and if so what method does it use?
I personally prefer the use of a magnetic stirrer for its simplicity and effectiveness. Though I'd add that the use of a mechanical stirrer is also possible with the addition of measures to control cross-contamination.
PS. the worst possible scenario in cases such as these however, would be the use of air(bubbler etc). If not only for its severely limited capacity for dispersion, but more so, for the added cross-contamination that comes with the admission of oxygen(enrichment) into the solution. - thus promoting the formation of silver oxides and further destabilization.
RE: Is it entirely manual or is there any automation?
Since my own process will run in under 18mins, I've chosen to keep the setup manual. - safe the addition of a timer . That said, it wouldn't be very difficult to automate this with a micro-controller such as an Arduino to either; collect telemetry, or carry out simple functions such as suspending or terminating an operation based on conditions etc. Though I never opted for this personally as the batch is usually finished by the time I'm done cleaning the first set of cathodes.
RE: what voltage level for generation does it use?
I run my own setup(electrode sizing, etc) at 42v DC so as to keep the cell running as close to maximum potential throughout processing. That said, I'd add that it's important to note that the voltage in this particular case is merely a carrier from which the current(mAh) is delivered into the cell to do the work.
NB. the efficiency of an electrolytic cell can be managed by reading the voltage drop between the electrodes throughout processing. This in turn, provides the means from which to control the potential of the cell and inherent properties of the particulate(size, shape, net structure), as well as calculate saturation(ppm).
RE: I assume the larger silver electrodes that you hinted at are how you are able to produce the Colloidal Silver so quickly by having a larger surface area, is that correct?
Correct. The rate of production(ion distribution) within the cell is proportionate to the size and capacity of the Anode. That said, the rule of thumb in this particular case is; 1 mAh p/sq. inch of total wetted surface area.
RE: ATM I am trying to find a design that does what I need, as all so far have proved deficient in one way or another.
Perhaps I can help. ie, can you elaborate further as to what your particular needs are?
RE: So I can get an idea of what it would cost me to build it can you tell me what additional equipment that I would require?
I'd say that the setup costs will depend on how far down the rabbit hole a person is willing to go. ie, In this field, we can scratch the surface, or dig deep into the depths of laboratory process methods in pursuit of more stringent parameters. - ie, < 3nm /30+ ppm.
RE: I have suffered from Chronic-Fatigue-Syndrome for over 20 years and I know the cause which has been very frustrating because all attempts to beat it have been blocked because the items that would help cannot be purchased by the public only research companies and educational establishments.
Sounds like both you and your Aunt could benefit from the use of an advanced Colloidal Silver solution coupled with the addition of a secondary treatment or protocol. - see: Beck Blood Purifier /electroporation device.
RE: Large batches quickly are less important to me than quality and small particle size ie low current. Chronic-Fatigue-Syndrome has taught me patience but that is being severely tested by frustration ATM
Generally speaking, the higher the quality of the solution(particle size, stability etc) in terms of production, the more complex and expensive the process will be. That said, there are numerous limitations that come with what I'd call the common LVDC Colloidal Silver generators being sold today, in that none of them(to my knowledge) actively deal with the issue of solution stability and inherent particle size/ quality beyond the fundamental basics. To which I'd add, is likely attributed to the complexity and costs of the measures required to accomplish this.
PS. I've also learned(over time), that many, if not most conditions can potentially be treated with what I'd call, modest solutions. So long as these solutions are relatively stable(ie, oxidation and precipitation), and that the pathology(ppm/dosage) is sufficient to treat the condition.
- Hope this helps
RE: ...I have no way of analysing it and analysis is likely to cost a lot of money and without that I think it would provide less information than details about the generation process that you used to make it.
I think you misunderstood. The intent was to make use of the solution so that you could decide whether or not you'd like to invest in this particular process method.
Okay thanks for clarifying.
RE: Does it have any control of current via a potentiometer etc?
I prefer to use current regulating diodes personally as my electrode configuration(size/distance etc) is part of a fixed setup. Though it wouldn't be very difficult to add a potentiometer to the design if need be.
Okay, therefore is the current at a fixed and constant rate in your device like it seems from what you say about using a current regulating diode? Another design I have uses a comparator to monitor the current and maintain a constant current level as the resistance decreases as the amount of silver increases. Do you know what current flows between the electrodes? This seems crucial to the ionic silver and particle size. It does seem that it is the particle size which makes the biggest difference as smaller particles provide a larger surface area which provides the greatest benefit. Ionic silver by comparison is largely ineffective as it reacts with chlorides within the body, in particular the stomach which would render it pretty much useless. As I understand it Ions are more effective for topical use where chlorides are not present but inside the body there are a lot of chlorides which make them far less effective.
RE: Does it have some form of stirrer
The answer is yes, as a stirrer is an integral part of the successful production of Colloidal Silver solutions. - for the dispersion of ions from the boundary layer of the anode
RE: and if so what method does it use?
I personally prefer the use of a magnetic stirrer for its simplicity and effectiveness. Though the use of a mechanical stirrer is also possible with the addition of having to contain the solution during processing(for cross contamination etc).
PS. the worst possible scenario in this particular case would be the use of air(bubbler etc). If not only for its severely limited effect in terms of dispersion, but more so for the addition of the cross-contamination due to the introduction of oxygen(enrichment) in the solution. Which in-turn, promotes the production of silver oxides and further destabilization.
I do prefer the method that you have used. A magnetic stirrer does seem the best method and I dislike the bubble methods employed by thesilveredge.com device for the reasons that you state. I think that maybe he saw that as the answer to being able to produce larger batches but I dislike it.
RE: what voltage level for generation does it use?
I run my own setup at 42v DC so that I can keep the cell within optimal load from start to finish. Keeping in mind that the voltage in this particular case is merely a carrier for the current(potential) as it is the current that does all of the work.
That said, the efficiency of the cell can be achieved by monitoring the voltage drop between the electrodes during processing. This allows to observe and ensure that the process is running at optimum potential(load wise). - which is an integral part in the production of consistent nano particulates(shape/size).
What made you decide on 42V DC? What are you using to provide that 42V DC? The particle size does seem to be crucial to effective colloidal silver. Smaller particles seem most effective. thesilveredge.com claims that their device can make particles as small as 0.8nm which is fairly small, not quite as small as products professionally made by MesoSilver but still very close if what they say is true. Do you think that their claims are possible? I am sure that we all know how marketing often make false claims knowing that it is difficult to disprove. MesoSilver prices are very high and I wouldn't want to be purchasing much at those kind of prices. What I would like is something which works well, gets results but isn't too expensive. A DIY approach appeals but it has to work and work well. I am attempting to beat a biofilm in my stomach which is very difficult to overcome. Stomach acid will convert Silver ions so silver particles of small sizes are essential. That is why I asked the questions I have as the design I have ATM does seem a bit deficient in that respect and uses fairly high currents of around 10mA. I do not see production time as being as important as quality. I need to give it maximum chance of success.
RE: ATM I am trying to find a design that does what I need, as all so far have proved deficient in one way or another.
Perhaps I can help. ie, can you elaborate further as to what your partricular needs are?
I would like something which works effectively, produces the smallest possible particle sizes that are possible at home without spending large sums of money on professional equipment. Being able to adjust the current would be beneficial as I might be using it for multiple purposes both internally and externally. Versatility would be an appealing feature. Your design seems to rely on a current limiting diode to control the current through the circuit. I can see a problem with this method in that polarity reversal would be very difficult if using a diode where current can only travel in one direction. I did notice another post of yours about 13 months back where there was mention by you and another poster about build up on the electrodes which indicates that you do not use polarity reversal which can combat that problem. A current limiting diode is a simple solution but I think that it has some limitations with regard to the electrodes.
I noticed that you mention heating the distilled water in the thread. What benefit does this give? Does it affect Silver Ions, get rid of them or prevent them from forming?
I am still trying to learn as much as I can about this before I begin so that I do not make any mistakes and end up with something which does not work in a satisfactory way.
I would like something which provides polarity reversal, current adjustment so that variable particle size is possible and being able to produce the smallest particles that I can. However that certainly complicates matters as I do not have a circuit that will do that ATM. The one that I do have does much of it except for the current adjustment and the circuit designer did state that a different comparitor might be needed for lower currents. It's a question of how low such a comparitor can go and what range they could operate to.
I am attempting to treat a condition which I have limited information, ie the bacteria is unidentified, I know it is not helicobacter pylori and I believe it is gram negative and shares many properties with helicobacter pylori but apart from that there are many unknowns. I do not know how effective colloidal silver will be in the presence of a biofilm which is designed to eliminate toxins to prevent the bacteria from becoming harmed. I did read on thesilveredge.com that the guy there claims that he suffered from extreme fatigue and he claims that colloidal silver eliminated the problem but marketing and false claims do not count for much IMO.
www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp
Thank you very much for your help so far, you have been an inspiration and excellent source of information both in this thread and your other thread posts.
RE: Okay, therefore is the current at a fixed and constant rate in your device
Yes.
RE: Do you know what current flows between the electrodes?
In my own case that would be 32 mAh
RE: Ionic silver by comparison is largely ineffective as it reacts with chlorides within the body, in particular the stomach which would render it pretty much useless
I too recall feeling this way in the early stages of my research. That said, upon closer inspection, I discovered that these particular views stemmed from studies and reports carried out by certain Colloidal Silver manufacturers who were intent on promoting their products. Whereas in truth, the published report data would not prove substantial to the claims in that the numbers are reflective of the sample concentrations. Ie, 20ppm of Microparticle Silver vs a 10ppm Ionic Solution.
That said, I’d encourage you to download and review this report as well as the following tests to draw your own conclusions toward matters.
In saying this, it has been my observation that all forms of Silver Solutions(compound or particulate) will undergo disassociation in the presence of HCl, whereas specialty products such as encapsulated solutions have been reported to survive gastric conditions in excess of 60 mins.
RE: As I understand it Ions are more effective for topical use where chlorides are not present but inside the body there are a lot of chlorides which make them far less effective.
I encourage people to conduct their own tests in cases such as these, as this will likely prove far more beneficial in terms of conclusions than to take someone to their word. That said, one of the biggest issues with the Colloidal Silver domain in our day, is where it is subject to vast amounts of personal opinions and repetition. Which often leads to what I’d call personal opinions eventually taking-on the form of verfified facts given enough time. - unfortunately
RE: What made you decide on 42V DC?
42v marked the necessary voltage required to ensure a current flow of 32 mAh was supplied to the cell from start to finish.
That said, I’d remind you that the voltage in this particular case is merely a carrier through which the current is delivered into the cell. And so in this way, one could conclude that the voltage is secondary to the objective so long as there is sufficient voltage to successfully carry out the flow of electrons.
NB. One simple way to visualize this would be to assemble a simple Electrolysis circuit along with an active measure of the voltage reading across the electrodes(anode and cathode), as well as a means from which to monitor or measure the current flowing through the cell. After which, activating this(w/distilled water) will likely show a full voltage reading(ie, 30v) and very little current. Which will in turn, increase as the leve of ions in the concentration begin to rises.
That said, what's interesting with this, is where we can influence /or change the level of current going into the cell at this stage using several methods:
And thus, it becomes possible to control the rate of current flowing into the cell by adjusting the voltage in the early stages of processing or as is commonly referred to as the ramp-up stage.
What are you using to provide that 42V DC?
I'm currently using a variable bench-top power supply if not, only for convenience. That said, I've had success using a conventional power supply(from an old printer) coupled with a DC-DC step-up voltage converter and rheostat(to control voltage). As well as a using a 60v DC LED power supply, which seemed to work well also.
RE: Smaller particles seem most effective.
I agree. Though I'd also add diffusion potential(permeability) and reactivity (through ionic exchange), at the top of this list as these seem vital to the effectiveness of a solution in most cases.
RE: thesilveredge.com claims that their device can make particles as small as 0.8nm which is fairly small, not quite as small as products professionally made by MesoSilver but still very close if what they say is true. Do you think that their claims are possible?
Theoretically, the silver ions liberated from the anode through electrolysis will prove to be the smallest physical particle size possible this side of the material barrier. Beyond this, the issue of reduction and net structure(particle dispersion) will come into play so as to determine the overall quality of the particulate in solution. To which I'd add, I'm happy to say, science is on our side:
In short, if a seller claims to have a +20ppm Colloidal Silver solution, while claiming to have the smallest particle size only to turn and have the darkest solution, then we can rest assured that something is amok with the claim.
That said, I recently witnessed a lab grade +30ppm Colloidal Silver solution, made from the smallest physical particle size made possible through modern science and will say with assurance that there is no such solution(to my knowledge) being sold anywhere. - I have never seen anything like it.
Similarly, I would say with great assurance that companies or sellers claiming to make .6nm particulate solution only to end-up with a tea colored solution, should be taken with a rather large grain of salt - my two cents of course
RE: What I would like is something which works well, gets results but isn't too expensive.
Fair enough.
RE: Stomach acid will convert Silver ions so silver particles of small sizes are essential.
I do hate to be the barer of bad news on this, though I'd add that the acids in our stomach's will convert any form of silver particulate, be it ionic or elemental, regardless of the composition. Which can be verified at home by taking a solution such as Mesosilver etc. and adding a few drops(0.1M) of HCl and observing the results.
And so at best, the best outcome in such cases would be to work toward improving resistance and contact time so that the particulate can survive long enough in the digestive tract to make a difference.
Having said that, your needs will definitely pose a challenge in that most LVDC process methods will require additional measures to either stabilize the solution and /or improve resistance. ie, encapsulation
RE: That is why I asked the questions I have as the design I have ATM does seem a bit deficient in that respect and uses fairly high currents of around 10mA. I do not see production time as being as important as quality. I need to give it maximum chance of success.
I'd add that the initial size of a colloidal silver particle is only one part of the quality criteria. Though I'm thinking this will not be your greatest obstacle given that the colloidal silver is destined for the gastric system. To which I'd add, all potential for the structure and where the quality of the solution will become null-and-void once it enters the stomach - personal testing has shown that the disassociation time for silver nanoparticle in typical conditions(pH) is around 5 -30s at best.
RE: Being able to adjust the current would be beneficial as I might be using it for multiple purposes both internally and externally. Versatility would be an appealing feature.
The total current is determined by the inherent capacity of the anode(dia., and wetted surface area). And therefore should not change unless the anode size is changed, upgraded etc.
RE: I can see a problem with this method in that polarity reversal would be very difficult if using a diode where current can only travel in one direction. I did notice another post of yours about 13 months back where there was mention by you and another poster about build up on the electrodes which indicates that you do not use polarity reversal which can combat that problem.
I choose not to make use of a polarity reversal as this promotes the release of silver oxide in solution as opposed to aggregating on the cathodes(which can then be removed from the solution). I've also determined that this particular practice greatly affects the overall quality of the solution and stability. That said, it would take two current limiting diodes(back to back) to control current in a polarity reversing circuit.
RE: I noticed that you mention heating the distilled water in the thread. What benefit does this give? Does it affect Silver Ions, get rid of them or prevent them from forming?
Heating ones solution does a number of things, including though not limited to; raising conductivity, and electrode capacity, reducing oxides(in solution), increasing solubility(compounds), reducing oxygen and increasing hydrogen, as well as promototing the reduction(converting) of the silver ions into elemental particles.
That said, one of the primary methods of controlling the ionic /particulate ratio of a solution is accomplished through the use of heat.
RE: I would like something which provides polarity reversal, current adjustment so that variable particle size is possible and being able to produce the smallest particles that I can.
Fair enough. However, I've never designed a reversing polarity circuit personally, and so I'm afraid I won't have much to contribute on this. That said, I did however, see a few videos in the past as well as a few circuits floating around that may warrant taking a look if this is your objective.
RE: ...It's a question of how low such a comparitor can go and what range they could operate to.
I'd begin by calculating your minimum and maximum current needs; ie, 1 mAh p/squ. in. of wetted Anode surface area, for the circuit and take it from there.
PS. Based on what you've written, I'd question the costs of your endeavor in contrast to purchasing an advanced CS generator personally.
- hope this helps