Why Are There So Many Churches 
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This was an interesting video on why there are so many churches. I think this denomination did a good job explaining some things.
http://www.youtube.com/user/paden981?v=blYqM4HaWdw
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This is a reply to # 2,188,218you folks if you want to find God you must grow His spirit or the spirit of life that creates living forms then you grow to see that consciousness and no excuses for evil spirit in you to find in here or there whether this is good or bad and thus splitting and fight your fellow creature in earthly heaven. it is the same with business when one boast that he sells the best chocolate yet the best is pure cocoa which indeed has the spirit of God without poison of man to change it into inferior substance/forms to that of God's; so how can you have pure church not inferior one to that of God's? People judge and inject the bad spirit in the form of, in this case, a church or other or similar to an excuse for the bad spirit of man but not of God. In this case you ask what is the spirit of God and the church that comes into conscious of HIs as you ask what is the spirit or energy so blessing that brought the genuine chocolate equal to cocoa for the temple of God you abide in his spirit. Do we really know the spirit of life or God? or the spirit of the sin always finding a form as its excuse for no ever healing at all? why do we make the prophets to see the end of the world? what they know of the spirit of God and the thing of God to which we must grow if we want to live and see God forever? I think that this real Grace to which with good spirit we all grow to become conscious of, indeed. what men or women want to find in this world as their children are brought here and grow to? It is very inspiring to just think of what is Grace or Plan of God, or I think, of gods or elites; it makes clear sense and joy just to expand about this Grace, of which Vertek so much wanted to know from others but not from her own imagination and good spirit to know it herself.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,280for more example, we want to grow more aware or conscious not for things we have to force our self to make for an evil spirit to come into forms and judgement but things already created to which we grow strong as we become conscious of forms filled with His spirit, thus our spirit to forms as reasons and will of His, our real genuine creator and no growth to illusions as plan or thing seen from bad spirit to reasons of false security or thing of weapons or things of business that sacrifices man to sickness and death. it is something that the blessing and conscious grow together for all of us to see and to be health and strong and loving and joyful and what else - I think this some thing to see as from the Love of God rather fear. What the prophets say about good news? I think Jesus have hinted to this Grace, then Saint Paul, oh, yes I have not forgot Vertek. it makes a dynamic sense of all senses, the spirit of God for you to grow or come to HIM. Blessing.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,287yep, there are about 41000 domination worldy Chirstians, like Peter and Paul fighting who would convent most. Refreshed do you want to know which one is the best, Nice burden and Jesus said come to rest in ME. domination equal ruling, women more the men.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,287Jesus hinted of Grace? Are you kidding me? He is all about Grace.
That video was for information about how so many churches came about. You can take it or leave it.
In the beginning of the church there was only one and Christ was the head of it.
Now we have churches that have separated themselves or where there is a man (Pope) that is the head. This is not what God had intended.
You stated you are Catholic, are you not able to see how the system of the anti-christ can come about with this form of government within the church?
This is the same type of government that is taking over now and that the anti-christ will be involved in.
Prepare spiritually.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,297to work on Grace is blessing beyond imagination but the spirit of the government pretending taking care of our security with weapons that the individual would rather ask for simple thing as medicine and food, no process, and free energy for focus of seeing to solution without delay and prejudicism or divisions. Yes their evil spirit can turn into a form or an excuse or reason for that anti-christ. they keep people in as bad energy as anger or greed and envy to blind us and they use women to force their men to obey to them. Hard would be then to focus and understand and enjoy the spirit and Grace that fill the truth. why men are not about this Grace to expand. I think we are all anti-christ. too bad it is like a torn in the flesh as Saint Paul said to have. it is blessing even just to imagining it, joy in the thoughts but it is better for the naked eyes to see. now I am indignant for that not being in this world. it is too hard to be an apple and not rot with others if their spirit is allowed in. the truth may protect us if also we what we do is from the spirit to forms of God. Great conscious or I am dreaming? thanks you refreshed for I would have been cursing you all like angry God, Jesus would do. blessing.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,218Good information in the video, however, this group is also a denomination although I don't think they want to be identified as that. They would like us to think that they are the one true church and that the rest are just denominations which are not biblical as they see it. Also, I do not agree with all of their doctrines although they claim their doctrine is perfect as the one in the new Testament.
Several years ago a male coworker invited me to go to his church which was this one. At the time it was considered a cult by many because of the control they had over their people. They do seem to know the true way of salvation.
They used to require people to attend so many hours of meetings and social activities per week even if that meant quit your job and find one that would fit into their approximately 25 hours of activities that they required per week. They required their people to invite so many people to their church every week. If I remember right they had quotas to meet somewhat like a sales team. They required you to be baptized by their church even if you were already baptized by immersion in another denomination. They did not recognize a person's salvation before involving themselves with their group.
They were so controlling that some were intimidated into marriage by making them feel that they must marry a certain person that their leaders picked out for them in order to obey God. They were taught to obey their leaders even if the leaders told you to marry someone. People were lead to believe that they had to obey these things, even marriages, or they were not obeying God. Leaders were placed over them that they had to obey even in personal issues and decisions in their lives. They were taught that to not obey these men meant that they were not obeying God. Their submission teaching was sick and strong to the point that it prevented people from doing God's will for their lives. Talk about man made rules! They are against the Assemblies of God and the gifts of the Spirit for today. Their teaching on these things is very twisted.
I went to the church one time at the request of this man. The message was so controlling of the people that it was sickening to me. I don't know how people can fall for this stuff, but the place was packed. The place was filled with people who had fake smiles. The people looked miserable and yet were convinced that this was the truth so they had to endure the control. I did not know it was what it was until I went. The joy of the Lord did not seem present in the people. The only presence of God that I felt in the place was the presence of God that I brought with me. That presence told me to get out now! God actually helped me escape. I believe it was supernaturally done. I think He made me invisible to them or something because I heard that they really gang up on the invited person pressuring them to join after the service. I really felt the presence of the Lord on me as I left. I'm telling you it was a miracle that I got to walk out without them stopping me and I could really feel that. Believe me they were watching me during the service and appeared ready to attack me.
I have heard that the group has changed a lot since then. I have heard that the leaders have repented of their controlling ways, but the beliefs are still in tack to my knowledge. I know they do not believe in the gifts of the Spirit for today. They are really off in their beliefs about women. The guy tried to get me to believe that 1 Timothy 4:1 about seducing spirits and doctrine of devils was referring to women's roles. Since I was mouthy about my faith, I don't think that he thought I should be sharing my faith because I am a woman and therefore not allowed to do so. These things must be done by men only. He wanted me to think that I was under the control of a seducing spirit and believing doctrine of devils.
It sounds like they still don't believe one can be saved unless it is in their church and baptism must be in their church. I'm glad that they have made improvements, but it is false teaching to make people think that they cannot be saved outside of them. I still find much error in this group even though the salvation message sounds ok. I hope some day they will come to the full truth. I believe the Lord has been working on them. They are a sincere group of people.
I am telling you to the best of my remembrance of this group. It has been a while since this happened to me. The video did have good information. I didn't know if you knew all of this about them or not. I just thought you should know. The video, if you take a good look at it, is trying to recruit people for their church. While a lot of information in the video is good, I do not think it would be in anyone's best interest to become involved with this group.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,396Yeah I recognized what denomination it was as well. They actually mentioned the name a number of times but the way it was used in the sentence, it may be easily overlooked.
They did do a good job of breaking it all down where it was easy to understand. I will give them credit for that. And they did say that they did not suggest that anyone leave their church....which was refreshing, coming from them.
Yes they do understand salvation correctly but they do tend to keep to themselves on a group level.
I wonder if I could get a copy of that timeline he had on that video? Would be interesting to look further into.
I think I know of another pastor who has info on "Why So Many Churches" that I can post...and he is pentecostal. I may look that up and attach it.
Thanks for your comments.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,450Ok, I'm posting this only because I'm so sad to read this, plus it's on the same lines of what we have been discussing lately. I have read this man's material for years. But I have now read this info and can't believe my eyes. Am I reading this right? Does he not believe in the Trinity? If not, I'm flabbergasted by this knowledge. I guess he thinks he has the only one true church as well? Irvin Baxter, if this is true, you will not receive any more of my support. Thank you God for opening my eyes....correct me if I'm wrong.
WHY SO MANY CHURCHES AND WHICH ONE IS RIGHT?
Have you ever heard someone say, "Well, I should go to church, but there are so many different kinds, which teach so many different beliefs, that I would have no idea which one to attend?
Why are there so many different "Christian" churches?!
Do you know that it was prophesied in the Bible that there would come a time when there would be many different churches which would go under the banner of Christianity? Not only that, the Bible revels in this prophecy which explains all this unveiled in the following study. Revelation 17:1-3, "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither, I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters; With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness; and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns." The importance of this study in every individual's life is shown in the very first verse.
The angel said, "I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore." Here God has pronounced judgment upon someone or something. The question immediately arises; "Am I going to be included in this judgment?" if we don't know who or what is destined to be judge, then we cannot act to disassociate ourselves from that which is to be judged. The first and foremost question we must ask is, "who is this woman?" as we search for the answer to this question, we will find that every symbol which surrounds this woman is interpreted in plain language-in this very same chapter.
WHO IS THIS WOMAN?
Rev. 17:18 states very plainly, "And the woman which thou sawest is the great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." So the first thing we discover is that the woman represents a city. There is a city somewhere on earth right now upon which God has pronounce judgment. We need to moved out so that God's judgment will not fall upon us also. Rev. 18:4, speaking of the same city says, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." The next clue in Rev. 17:9 tells what these seven heads symbolized. "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth" (or on which the city sitteth). We now know two things: the woman is a city, and this city is located upon seven mountains or hills.
There is only one city in the world today that is known as the city of the seven hills. If you will look in many encyclopedias under Rome, it is referred to as the city of seven hills. If Rome is this city, then the rest of the clues in this chapter should fit her too. Again in Rev. 17:18 - "And the woman… which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Does Washington D.C. reign over the kings of the earth? Does Moscow? New York? London? Paris? The answer, of course, is definitely not! We can prove, however, that Rome does reign over the kings of the earth. In 1951, the Roman Catholic Church had the right to guide the political thinking of any and all of its members. That states very plainly that if a pope should choose to issue an order to a head of states who is a Catholic, he is bound by the laws of Roman Catholicism to obey. Do you realize that many heads of the state today are Roman Catholic?
One pope emphatically declared, "Popes have the right to remove kings and emperors, since spiritual rules over temporal." during the middle ages, 500-1,500 A.D., the Pope named, remove, and replaced kings in Europe at will. European rulers, as recently as 100 years ago, went to be crowned by the pope, but a rift develop between his country and the Vatican, which prevented it.
In the pope's coronation ceremony, he is pronounced "king of kings and ruler of rulers of the earth." God foresaw all of this before Catholicism ever existed, and foretold it in minute detail so that honest-hearted individuals would not be deceived. The remarkable things is that Catholicism issues statements which are worded almost exactly like God's prophecies concerning her!
In Rev. 17:1 again, the woman is shown sitting upon many waters. The angel tells John in Rev. 17:15, "The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Roman Catholicism claims 800,000,000 subjects or members. (Catholics are many times referred to as subject of pope.) These members are in virtually every kingdom of the world.
What an accurate description of Catholicism given by God before Roman Catholicism ever existed! Roman Catholicism - a city and yet an international system. Rev. 17:4 further described Catholicism, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication." In a description of papal parade, the attire of the pope and the cardinals was described using almost the identical words as those above. Scarlet (red) is the color worn by cardinals; purple is worn by bishops and archbishops. The pope's crown is gold, his throne is gold, the pope and the cardinals always have gold crucifixes hung about their necks. Pearls are used by all members in the form of their rosary.
The astonishing thing is that the Catholic Church claims to be the true church, yet Paul taught against the wearing of pearls, gold, and costly array (I Timothy 2:9). If you will take notice of the different doctrines of Catholicism, you will find that hardly any are the same as those of the early church. That's the reason God hates Catholicism so and has vowed to send terrible judgment upon it. Rev. 17:6-" And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with blood of the martyrs of Jesus. :" Of all the persecutors of the true saints of God, Roman Catholicism ranks number one. In her history she has killed in the neighborhood of 68,000,000 Christians because they would not bow to her false doctrines. In one six-year period alone, Roman Catholicism was responsible for 6,000,000 deaths (not mentioning the unspeakable torture that came before death).
There are countries today in which one may not preach contrary to Catholicism with our endangering his life. This seems so foreign today in the midst of the ecumenical movement, but the history books shout a warning to us if we will but listen. Not only has Catholicism been a persecutor in the past, but the Bible prophecies that in the immediate future she is going to be a party to the persecution such as the world has never seen. It is no wonder that God said that Catholicism was drunken with the blood of the saints. Rev. 17:5 - "And upon her forehead was the name written, Mystery Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth."
To understand the first part of this name which was written upon the forehead of this woman, "Mystery Babylon the Great," we must know something about Babylon. The first time we hear of Babylon is at the tower of Babel. This was shortly after the flood. The idea behind building the tower which would reach high into the heavens was that if another flood came, the people could save themselves by going up into the tower rather than depending on God to save them. Thus, Babylon became the origin of man-made religion. Also, this great tower would weld the people together into a single nation and government. So the spirit of Babylon which began at the tower of Babel was the spirit of self-sufficiency.
One ruler, one government, one religion, and one economy: Give us this and we can solve all our problems. The spirit of Babylon got into Nebuchadnezzar one night causing him to forget that God held control over the earth and could bring about the exaltation or the downfall of any ruler or kingdom. In his pride he exclaimed, "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?" immediately, the kingdom was taken from Nebuchadnezzar, and he was driven into the field to roam there as a maniac until he acknowledged the supremacy of God. This lesson was remembered but a short time.
Nebuchadnezzar's grandson Belshazzar held a great feast at which he was the center of attention, praise, and exaltation. In his exalted condition he sent for the gold and silver vessels which were dedicated to the worship of God. As he drank from those forbidden vessels, God wrote a message to Belshazzar in the plaster of the wall. "God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it. Thou art weigh in balances, and art found in wanting. Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians."
The Spirit of Babylon once again brought God's judgment, as it always does. The spirit of Babylon is still working in our times. When Hitler rose into power, his message and goal was to bring 1000 years of peace to the earth (with the Germans as rulers). The reason Satan inspired Hitler to attempt this 1000-year reign was simply because Satan has always tried to do what God has promised he will do. Every saint of God longs for the return of Jesus Christ to set up His millennial (1000-year) Kingdom on earth. (Rev. 20:2-3,6)
Before Hitler's 3rd Reich, it was the 1st and the 2nd Reich, all inspired by the spirit of Babylon, and all with the same vision: to establish a world kingdom that would last 1000 years. Undoubtedly, we will soon see the emergence of the 4th Reich, preaching the same Babylonian message of one world government, one world religion and the promised of 1000 years of peace and prosperity.
The Bible did not say the woman's name was to be Babylon; it said, "Mystery Babylon." In other words she will not be called Babylon, but she will have the same spirit and doctrine that Babylon has always possessed. True to form, Catholicism does not believe that Jesus Christ is going to return to earth in person and set up a thousand-year kingdom of peace, but rather, they believe that through the spreading of the influence of Catholicism, they eventually will gain enough power to rule the world and to establish the Pope as the "King of Kings."
Isn't it amazing how accurate Bible prophecy is, even though written 2000 years ago? It is not fulfilled in just one or two points but in every single detail, no matter how small.
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
This last portion of the name that God gave to Catholicism is, undoubtedly, the most important in opening our understanding. Here we can know the true from the false. Notice, first of all, that Catholicism was called a harlot. Now God is saying that she is not only a harlot but is also the "Mother of Harlots." A harlot is a woman who bears children having no husband. Throughout the New Testament God's true church has been called the bride of Jesus Christ (II Cor. 11:1-3 and Rev. 21:2).
In order to be in the bride, we must take the name of the bridegroom. The way we can take the name of Jesus is through baptism (Gal. 3:27). Except we are baptized in the name, we can't be in the bride. This brings us to a crucial question: how does your church baptize? There are principally two formulas which have been used for baptism by present-day churches: 1) In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; 2) In the name of Jesus Christ. If you will look in most encyclopedias, they will tell you that until 325 A.D. baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was the accepted formula (Canny Encyclopedia pg. 53; Dictionary of the Bible by Scribner's, pg. 241; Dictionary of the Bible by James Hastings; Encyclopedia Britannica, the 11th edition, Volume 3, pp. 365-366). On the other hand, no one in the Bible was ever baptized using the titles "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." Until 325 A.D. this formula was never used or recognized as valid. Then in 325 A.D. the Nicean council was called by what had become the Catholic Church. At this council the mode of Baptism was change from "In the name of Jesus Christ" to "Father, Son, Holy Ghost." Also at this council the doctrine of the trinity was formulated.
This was the founding of the great whore, the "Mother of Harlots." She became a woman with no husband. She bore no man's name. In the 16th century Martin Luther lead the Reformation, carrying with him millions. The Roman Catholic Church hastily called the council of Trent in am attempt to stem the tide away from Catholicism. At this council many decrees were made condemning the Protestants; however, the council decreed that the Protestants, at least, had not forsaken the Mother Church's baptism. With this fatal mistake, the Protestant movement was doomed to eventually be nothing but a lot of little harlots following the footstep of their Mother. We see the doom being fulfilled today with the Protestants turning back to Mother. In an effort to lure her daughters home, the Catholic Church issued this statement: "We the Mother Church are opening our arms to all of our daughters to return home.
Anyone who holds to our baptism may return without being rebaptized." How accurately it is being fulfilled! Finally, God said of Mystery Babylon in Rev. 18:7: "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow?" Simply articles like this and God's true preachers are going to be preaching loudly, "You're a widow. Before 325 A.D. you bore the name of Jesus Christ, but now you're widow and a harlot. You are soon to be judged." In defense she is going to say, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. " But Rev. 18:8 says, Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine: And she shall be utterly burned with fire: For strong is the Lord God who judgeth her." Judgment is coming to Catholicism! Judgment is coming to Protestantism, her daughters! All this is in your Bible, whether a Protestant or Catholic Bible!
Get your Bibles down and read for yourself. Are you going to reap the wrath of God, or are you going to wake up and obey the truth? Remember, the point on which the entire issue turn is the formula of baptism used. Ecumenical leaders are saying, "We have a basis for unity. It is our common mode of baptism… Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." All churches will soon be divided into two basic groups: those who baptize using the phrase that was never used for an actual baptism in the Bible…Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or those who baptize using the phrase that was used every single time by the New Testament Church…In the name of Jesus (or Jesus Christ). See Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5. In the Bible God's true church is symbolized as a virgin bride. A false church is also symbolized as a woman, but the woman is a harlot. The bible prophesied that there would be many false "Christian" churches-the Mother harlot and all of her daughter harlots. Their relationship is cemented by their common baptism. As the dark cloud of ecumenism closes in on the world, there are many honest-hearted and sincere individuals in these false churches that God would like to save. The Word of God rings out, "Come out of her, my people, that ye by not partakers of her sins, and the ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).- Why Are There So Many Churches (EDIT... rainy.5
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This is a reply to # 2,188,455I thought you knew that Irvin Baxter does not believe in the Trinity. I knew he was "Oneness" meaning he thinks God is revealed in three personalities. I somehow tend to believe that there are many of this belief who are really saved even though they are mixed up with this belief. Does it say anywhere in the Bible that one must understand the Trinity to be saved, or believe in the Trinity? They are not denying the deity of Christ. This also is something that I am asking that I do not claim to have the answers for. I guess I should make that clear because of all my posts where I ask questions just to get others to express themselves etc., when I have very strong beliefs about the answer.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,469I guess one would expect me to know, but for some reason I never did. I knew about his write-up about "why so many churches" but I guess I never read it before. It was always offered in one of his tracts and I never bought one. I found the info elsewhere on the internet. I had read his page on what he believed and I don't remember ever reading that before.
Are you sure that this is what they believe...Oneness? Most of the people I know that don't believe in the Trinity are in what most people would call a cult. They only believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of God...not a third person or personality of the Trinity. They are called non-trinitarians.
It bothered me because I was just having a debate with someone the same day about this very subject. They showed me some very weak scripture to support their view and I was planning on looking up more scripture when I got home.
I have to wonder what the Holy Spirit is trying to show me here, or if He is helping to motivate me to search scriptures to help this person.
I just think I need to study this area because I need to know how this belief affects other beliefs through out scripture. Just like my question to you about if someone used the small "s" or large "S" for Holy Spirit in that one scripture, that I posted elsewhere, how it may change the meaning.
I was just wondering if it made any difference in our understanding of the bible as a whole or if it did not change a thing.
Any thoughts from you on this subject are welcomed.- Re: Why Are There So Many Churches (... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,188,531
http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2061447#i
Here is a post I made a while back concerning the Trinity.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,535I think those church goers were forced to go by fear and thus their believe could not manifest in a form to hold on the creator. they did not Love and the believe come true to their liking. the spirit of God is Love or emotion or vibration or aura and this solidify the believe, like two polarity and the energy crosses and form a thing; this idea is being tried many proof now in Science to understand the nature of God. like you say the bride and brideroom but not so much thunder or that please that One high, our Lord. I wonder now if Science has tried to proof better about the existence of God then the church. all what has manifest is false love, false hope backed with fear. a lie in the heart, no God, or connection to allow the spirit to come in and speak to the person - why? they care only about control, no understaning ,light, and formation as needed and would be send by Love of God to his people. why miracle takes place? even to save soul?
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This is a reply to # 2,188,605and that was a quite a big picture about the mystery of the whore of Babylon. more clear.
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This is a reply to # 2,188,531I have always been taught that "Oneness" groups believe that God is manifested in three Personalities sometimes called ways. I also have been taught that these groups are cults.
There are other groups out there that believe as you said. They don't believe in the Trinity. They believe the Holy Spirit is another name for God or believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of God. I don't think these beliefs qualify to be called "Oneness".
I copied this from the web.archive website. It is an org. Sorry I cannot link with my user name. This should help give you ideas to use when debating these people.
"Jesus is our Lord and Saviour. What He says is the truth. What He commands, we do. If we refuse to acknowledge this we cannot claim to be Christians.
Christ's last instructions to His disciples were explicit: "Full authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth; go and make disciples of all nations, baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey all the commands I have laid on you. And all the time I will be with you, to the very end of the world" (Matt.28:18-20, Moffatt).
This commandment given by our Lord leaves no possibility for modification -- it is an instruction to make disciples of all and baptise them in the Name of the Triune God. All nations have not been baptised -- the unbelievers are in the majority. Missionaries have not been to the "very end of the world" -- some parts remain unevangelised. Therefore we are to do as Jesus says, baptising in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit until the end. There is therefore no provision for baptism in the Name of Jesus alone even though all authority has been given Him, because all authority belongs to the Father and the Holy Spirit as well.
United Pentecostalists (if I understand them right) teach that Jesus (Yahshua/Yeshua) is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If so, then He was talking to Himself at Calvary and praying to Himself throughout His ministry. Jesus Christ was not two persons, as the Gnostics taught, but one. He taught His disciples to be one with the Father in the same way that He was one with Him (John 17:22). When speaking of the Father He always referred to both of them as "we". If the United Pentecostalists are right, then we are Christ too, and that is New Age doctrine!
United Pentecostalism is a dangerous heresy that robs God the Father of His glory. It misapplies a selection of scriptures that speak of Jesus's divine Fatherhood without considering all the rest. Even the term "godhead" (Ac.17: 29; Rom.1:20; Col.2:9, KJV) is meaningless in a United Pentecostalist (UP) setting because the word implies that there is more than one Person who is God -- otherwise how could there be a "head"? There is no Godhead in UP doctrine.
Consider another problem. If Jesus is the Father and also the Son, how come "Jesus the Father" knows when Jesus the Son is returning to earth but not Jesus the Son?? "No-one knows about that day [the second coming], not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" (Mt.24:36, NIV). The UPC doctrine is nonsense in this light. Why not simply accept that the Father and Son are two Persons but one God, as the Bible teaches?
Actually, to be frank, I am not sure you are asking the right question. I am not saying that you have not been called to be a "Pentecostal" but I am wondering what all your reasons are for framing such a question, whether you are becoming a Pentecostal because of family tradition {the enquirer's brother is a Pentecostal minister -- ed. note} or because you are absolutely sure this is where the Lord wants you to be. I think you have other questions that you must ask Him. Of one thing I am sure, though, it is that UPC on the Godhead doctrine is false and therefore dangerous -- it is contrary to the Apostolic Doctrine of the New Testament (Rom.16:17) and should therefore be shunned."-
Trinity vs. Oneness Debate rainy.5
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This is a reply to # 2,188,617The rest of the debate can be heard in audio mp3, according to the youtube description, at the aomin website. It is an org.
- Re: Why Are There So Many Churches (... rainy.5
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This is a reply to # 2,188,617I just wanted to add something in regards to this statement that I made:
There are other groups out there that believe as you said. They don't believe in the Trinity. They believe the Holy Spirit is another name for God or believe that the Holy Spirit is the power of God. I don't think these beliefs qualify to be called "Oneness".
I think, from what I have run into, that these groups also deny the Deity of Christ. At least "Oneness" believes in the Deity of Christ. They would have to since they believe Jesus is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not three persons, but three different ways to manifest the one God.- Re: Why Are There So Many Churches (... saywhatagain
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This is a reply to # 2,188,649I watched the initial video on why there are so many churches and I don't think it is a good explanation at all. I think the question of why there are so many churches is a very good one and something everyone should ponder. How can it be that there is only one Gospel but so many different churches all preaching the Gospel with slight or sometimes large variations? Yet everyone is so sure of their own understanding and interpretation of the Gospel. It makes things very confusing, especially for someone first coming to Christianity.
My feeling is this: Yes Jesus did set up a church but I don't believe that church endured. Not due to any fault of Jesus, but due to the fault of man. Catholicism basically destroyed anything that was set up by Jesus, but I need to do some serious research on this topic, as it is very interesting to me. What actually did happen to the real Church of Christ that he set up? I don't think the video explains this at all. Basically, what it seems like this guy is saying is anyone who believes in the true Gospel of Christ is in his 'Church', to some extent I do kind of agree with this, but then why do so many of us disagree on what is the true Gospel of Christ? There is not one view but many interpretations which create all the Christian Sects, Why? The answer is because of the imperfection of man. That is why the initial true Church couldn't endure and why today man in his great folly each has his own interpretation of the Gospel. If we are just relying on our own interpretation of the Gospel and not relying on the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit to guide us personally, then we will never truly be saved. In the end, personally I don't think it as important which specific Church you worship in but more important is how you worship, using the Holy Spirit for divine discernment in your own life. In other words, it is not the correct understanding of the Gospel that declares us as a member of the Church of Christ but our complete surrender of our hearts and minds to Christ that makes us a part of his real Church. After we surrender our hearts and minds completely, then the full truth of the Gospel can start to unveil itself to us. When Christ returns, he will destroy all of our silly sects and finally establish His One Church again, which does not exist today, but only exists in the hearts of his true followers.
As far as the issue of the Trinity. I don't know that he said the Trinity doesn't exist. He said that the Catholic church formulated their own specific ideas about the Trinity, in other words the 3 as 1 approach, at a specific time. He also said that he doesn't think we need to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost but only in the name of Jesus Christ. Just another glaring example of how we all have our own interpretation, but I don't think that I read anything about him saying, the Trinity doesn't exist, unless I missed it. People who debate the Trinity and their own personal opinions on the matter are again debating with their own rational human minds, instead of laying down their lives at the feet of Christ and allowing him to show them the true meaning of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Do we have to believe in the Trinity to achieve salvation? No, I don't think so. I don't think we need to understand everything exactly perfectly about the Gospel to receive salvation, otherwise basically no one would be saved. We come to Christ and if you ask with a sincere heart, without our own selfish ego, he will show us the way. We worship at the feet of Christ day and night and he transforms us into something completely different. I think the true power of the Bible is not all of the little specifics, not all of the particular doctrine, the true power of the Bible is to let us to know this person Jesus Christ. Once you know him, then you just kneel at his feet and let him transform you. That is not to say, his Gospel doesn't matter. His gospel is how we know him and we should study it as much as possible, to dispel our misunderstandings, but we study the Gospel to come to Christ, to know Christ better, so we can come closer to him and accept him more fully into our heart. If we think the Gospel will save us, that is where you get into trouble, because our interpretation of all the specifics of the Gospel can be wrong. And even if we had a perfect understanding of the Gospel, if our hearts are filled with pride and ego, we cannot be saved.- Re: Why Are There So Many Churches (... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,188,736I will agree with you that the Church of Christ is not the perfect example of the one true church any more than the other churches. But if we read about the 7 churches in revelation, the church of Philadelphia (brotherly love) was praised for enduring patiently.
I believe the true church still exists...but it exists spiritually by the example of the Philadelphia church. 
Expand 22 messages, 21 to 42 of 42 Mighty.Sun.Tzu
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- Why Are There So Many Churches (EDIT... rainy.5
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