Need some advice on reflux and gastr... 
CatAttack93
10 y
9,933
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Trying to figure out why I'm having gastritis again. I have low stomach acid and used to be able to take 6 650 mg of betaine hcl per meal. I also take armour thyroid. I began reducing the number of acid pills in late January, because I felt I needed to, but eventually I started to feel worse early April, the doctor decided to take me off my thyroid because we thought I no longer needed it. At this point I was taking 2 to 3 hcl, but after going off the thyroid I am no longer able to tolerate any acid pills. I am now back on the thyroid,and am trying to heal my stomach so I can take the hcl again. I've been taking gastrazyme, dgl, glutamine, slippery elm, marshmallow root, since may 1st and I still cant tolerate any acid, and I very much need it as my weight went from 100 to 90, (100 is healthy for me, I am a petite female) and I'm losing a lot of hair and just feeling like crap. If anything my stomach is worse and I have an ache, and a soar throat every morning from what I assume is acid reflux. Currently I eat eggs for breakfast, and a combo of chicken or fish with vegetables for lunch and dinner. I eat at least 3 bananas a day and avocadoes and raw honey. I take peppermint oil 3x a day, 3g of glutamine, 4 gastrazyme before each meal,2 bio hpf before each meal, 3 tabs of DGL, and I also drink aloe Vera juice. I have been tested for h pylori and it was negative. I know I need to cleanse but I cant handle the die off while my body is deficient from not taking stomach acid. I just cant figure out why my gastritis is worse after taking all these healing supplements.Advertisement
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
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This is a reply to # 2,175,824The HCl can get expensive. I started taking malic acid as a partial substitute for HCl. I buy it powered and put some in some capsules. It's quite acidic and I began taking 2 tsp in water but was worried about my teeth so reduced that to half tsp mixed with 1 x 5ml scoop of Xylitol in water.
I would say that you have an unidentified infection of your stomach just like many people on this forum which is causing the hypochlorhydria. All that you know is that it is not h. pylori.
I believe that the majority of people with hypochlorhydria have these none h. pylori infections of their stomach because hypochlorhydria is not a normal condition and it is not an inherent deficiency of certain people. It is just an unfortunate consumption of something infected with these bacteria which can have big consequences to people's long term health.
You will also have hyper permeability of your stomach which is what is causing all the problems with your hair loss, energy and mood making you feel like crap. Large food molecules are being absorbed into your blood stream which your immune system is reacting to and producing anti bodies. The anti bodies are affecting the areas where there are immune system regulation deficiencies specific to your body.
That is why all the normally recommended stomach healing substances have no effect! They cannot get through the biofilm protecting the bacteria. I believe that the bacteria benefits from the hyper permeability in some way and maintains it.
Please be aware that with deficient stomach acid levels your mineral and B12 absorption will be affected and you will most likely be deficient of any nutrient that requires stomach acid to help it's absorption!
What I recommend that you do until the bacteria can be indentified:
Take some easily absorbable magnesium such as mag malate would be beneficial and would help your thyroid and so would selenium. If you can get some magnesium carbonate and malic acid powder you could combine them and form a pure mag malate in a glass of water. Mag malate is one of the least expensive forms of highly absorbable magnesium, Source naturals tablets is what I use. I could not find an inexpensive form of magnesium carbonate, it cost more than mag malate tablets.
Some methylcobalamin (B12) also benefited me a lot and improved/normalized my body clock and also helps with TH1 suppressor T-Cell activity to down regulate the abnormal immune response to absorbed food molecules which is present when there is hyper-permeability of the stomach/gut. I take high doses of methyl B12. B12 deficiency can cause nervous system damage!
The zinc carnosine can help, I take it myself. It helps to reduce the inflammation which tends to help maintain the permeability. The more inflammation, the higher the permeability becomes. It works out expensive but helps a little. As you have gastritis it should be even more helpful so do not spare the capsules.
Finding out what the bacteria is, is going to be difficult. Without knowing the bacteria it makes defeating it much more difficult and almost impossible. I advise you to NOT start using the common anti bacteria agents because every time you fail and you will fail, the bacteria will adapt and become stronger and more resistant!!!!!
People will recommend things and you will try them and they will fail making the bacteria more resistant! Too many amateurs guessing and trying different things will cause you greater problems in future.
If you can get help then that would be most beneficial because these bacteria are very unforgiving and believe me, I have a lot of personal experience at this. They laugh in the face of common anti biotic sustances and shrug them off so easily! I have had some success but I held off destroying it which I regret. Please believe me, do not attempt to destroy this yourself because YOU WILL FAIL! Without knowing the bacteria or the strain you cannot find the necessary quorum sensing inhibitors which are an important factor in defeating it. Every fail will mean you are more likely to be stuck with it forever. Their aim is to survive and they are evolving closer to perfection with each iteration to do that. They will counter anything that you throw at them and your trial and error will render everything useless. Save it until you know what your fighting and know how to defeat it!
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,554
This is a reply to # 2,176,078Would taking the bio hpf help? Its designed to push out dead or alive bacteria and make the stomach not conducive to the growth of bacteria. I notice when I take it it makes my gastritis flare up (although it is not terrible pain). I wonder if that means it's working, or if the barberry in it is aggravating my stomach, as I read it could do that.
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,614
This is a reply to # 2,176,126And how the heck do I figure out what kind of bacteria it is? This shit is too difficult I may just take some carafate to coat my stomach to take my acid again, I feel like I'm gonna die without it
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,670
This is a reply to # 2,176,131It is only an idea on what could be causing your problems with stomach acid and gastritis. H. pylori gets all the blame but it is not the only urease positive bacteria that can inhabit the stomach therefore getting a h. pylori negative result could mean that a different bacteria could be responsible.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16780553
Unfortunately I don't think that there are any other tests to determine whether another bacteria is responsible. It's all in the realms of research and if/when someone gets around to looking/testing.
However because you have gastritis, that does tend to go along with h. pylori. How recent was that test? Was it before or after the gastritis began?
BTW Cloves are very good for the stomach and promoting digestion. They warm the stomach which stimulates the digestive fires. Taking some with your food might help a little. I mix some ground cloves when cooking food and also add a drop of clove essential oil to the malic acid/xylitol drink which I have with 6 malic acid capsules and 5 capsules of now foods HCl with a big meal. I was taking 12 HCl capsules before I added malic acid! If you get Clove eo make sure that you get a pure therapeutic grade oil which is not mixed with anything else. Sometimes they do not dec1are that other things have been added to it, instead passing it off as being pure and increasing their profits. I get mine from nhr organics. Clove oil also has anti biofilm activity but not enough on it's own to deal with mine. I warned that it is damn difficult didn't I.
I have been looking for an anti urease herb to try and stop the urease activity in order to prevent stomach acid being neutralized and therefore enable proper digestion. But without knowing the bacteria it's difficult finding something that works because it needs to fool the bacteria into not trying to neutralize the acid. That is what some quorum sensing inhibitors do but they are specific to certain bacteria which means we are back to a dead end. I did read that thyme herb was meant to have anti urease activity against h. pylori, that was when I thought I had h. pylori until a blood test showed I did not have it. Which explains why it did not stop the urease activity.
I am in a similar situation myself, no gastritis but poor digestion and limited acid.
Do you belch when you eat? You mention bloating which could be SIBO which can be caused by lack of acid. An easy test for urease is to consume some acid! On an empty stomach take a glass containing about 100ml/3.5 floz of water and mix either lemon juice, AVC or vinegar, a couple of tblsp.
You have gastritis so it might be worth starting with something weaker if you think it could be uncomfortable.
Drink it and see if you belch. Ignore any belching immediately following drinking, you could of swallowed some air. It can take 20 to 60 seconds to react if urease is present. The urease enzyme produced by bacteria uses urea in saliva and produces ammonia and bicarbonate. That reacts with any acids such as hydrochloric acid, neutralizing them and producing carbon dioxide and hence the burping.
A few other things which might be helpful. They are in that supplement you mentioned but getting the raw ingredients and more of them might work better. You can get these in whole or powdered form so you could try it to see which benefits you:
Liquorice root is meant to help protect the stomach. Be aware that this can raise blood pressure if taken for long periods!
slippery elm powder
mastic gum
Haritaki which is meant to be good against digestive problems and has anti urease activity against h. pylori but whether that will work against other bacteria is hard to say. I have not tried this myself yet but I do intend to get some. Be aware that it has mild laxative effects but can treat diarrhoea. I intend getting it in powdered form so I can adjust the dosage as needed. I don't like capsules, it's paying a lot for very little IMO.
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,634
This is a reply to # 2,176,399I tried the acid test, took 2 tablespoons of ACV in 4 ounces, had a tiny burp in my throat right after drinking it and a tiny burp like a minute and a half later, nothing I would consider a burp though because it was just a small burp of air in my throat..I dont know if that's conclusive of anything
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,492
This is a reply to # 2,176,771The early one can probably be discounted because it could just be swallowed air. Anything later could indicate urease activity where the acid is being neutralized by bacteria producing carbon dioxide gas which leads to burping.
Maybe a lot of the gas is coming out the other end. lol jk
This is not a conclusive test by any means but it does indicate that there could be a problem and that you might have some urease bacteria in your stomach causing the problems.
There could be several problems. A nervous system problem which is lowering your stomachs acid production which could of allowed bacteria to colonize your stomach. A nervous system problem might be due to poor absorption of nutrients over a long period, B12 needs stomach acid and so do essential minerals such as magnesium and zinc.
Bacteria could be fermenting food in your stomach or it could possibly be as I first suggested due to a weak? urease bacteria. It could be a combination of all three. It is all a lot of guesswork and all that you can do is to try to find more clues.
Another test is to consume sodium bicarbonate mixed in water on an empty stomach. Then time how long it takes you to burp. This test did not work well for me. It took a very long time, over 5 mins for very minor burps. The longer the time, the less stomach acid that is being produced. It's the first test that I did which made me first consider lack of stomach acid.
http://www.livingfoods.co.uk/pages/articles/the-acid-test.php
These are all very inexpensive tests and not infallible or totally accurate. They do not conclusively prove anything unfortunately but can indicate a potential problem worth further investigation.
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,411
This is a reply to # 2,177,424Yeah I guess I just dont understand why I can't tolerate the acid pills anymore, I was taking them just fine last month, my theory is that because I went off my thyroid that allowed my lining to become weak, as you need thyroid to help maintain the junctions in your tummy
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,411
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,492
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,634
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,670
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,613
This is a reply to # 2,176,126Advertisement
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Bio-HPF contains bismuth which is used in multi drug therapies to treat h. pylori.
Something in it must be irritating your stomach. Perhaps stimulating your digestion which is causing irritation. You said that you could not tolerate any HCl or acid so maybe the capsules are causing the release of acid. Clove can do that.
To calm your irritated stomach it might be worth getting some slippery elm powder and consuming some of that. It draws out acid from the tissues which might be soothing on your stomach.
In the short term while you have these problems it might be worth getting some amino acids from a body building supplier. Get some common essential amino acids and consume them if you can tolerate them okay. Start slow and build up. They won't need digesting and will nourish your body with the missing protein/amino acids. They are acids so only get a small amount until you know that you can tolerate them. Taking with something to coat the stomach might help such as liquorice or mastic gum.- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,569
This is a reply to # 2,176,416I was tested for H. Pylori last week, and any noticeable gastritis didn't start till I started the bio hpf. It isn't bad at all though, just annoying. I also have had some swollen lymph nodes in my neck for over a month, along with the sore throat, most noticeable in the morning.I also have an ache in my chest it kind of feels like what I guess could be heartburn?The thing is I've had low stomach acid for a year now, but I never had the swollen nodes or reflux then. Last year I did a parasite cleanse for over a month, along with 3 Liver Flushes and I took Dr. Schulze s intestinal formula after the cleansing. I began the thyroid then took all those supplements to heal my stomach, and within a month I was able to take 6 acid pills with each meal. I was so healthy and felt so great from November to early last month, then I realized I was feeling off. I began cutting down my acid pills in January, thinking my stomach was starting to work again(I'm only 20) but I may have picked up the bacteria as a result of cutting back. Who knows.
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,615
This is a reply to # 2,176,462I don't belch when I eat but all throughout the day I have tiny burps in my throat and I can taste my supplements even a few hours after taking them. I've started to take parasite killing herbs because im desperate, when I did my last cleanse I expelled tons of worms , im thinking maybe my stomach won't heal this time because I need to get the rest out, and I've probably picked up more since I haven't been able to take my hcl in a month. I mean I did that last time first, who knows maybe for me it's crucial to cleanse before the supplements will heal my stomach.Advertisement
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,642
This is a reply to # 2,176,463lol I didn't mean a gut wrenching loud belch. If there is urease activity it would depend upon the quantity of bacteria and their urease capabilities. Some urease bacteria are very strong but others are less so. It's possible that the small burps you get could be due to the carbon dioxide produced by the neutralization of your stomach acid.
I think that it would be worth you trying the acid test to find out if there is any evidence of urease activity. It doesn't really cost anything, you can use what acid you have, even vinegar, lemon or AVC if you have some.
Taking some such acids as drinks with food might help your digestion a little bit as well.
It doesn't sound like you are digesting very well and finding out why would help you to make progress.
The following site explains reflux and why it occurs, insufficient stomach acid and a ph which is not low enough.
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Heartburn_-_at_last_I_have_sussed_out_why_this...!
I don't know any reason why worms would prevent the stomach from healing. It could be a lack of nutrients required to heal or body processes which cannot get the required nutrients. Magnesium is crucial to so many processes and it's absorption is seriously affected when there is insufficient acid and digestive processes. Common forms of magnesium require oxidation in order to be absorbed. I became hypothyroid when I stopped taking mag malate and switched to mag oxide to save costs. Your thyroid problem could be down to lack of magnesium because of lack of stomach acid.
At least until you can get your stomach working well, I would get an absorbable magnesium to ensure that everything can work properly and not delay healing. Magnesium is such an important mineral which can affect so many enzyme systems and activating your thyroid hormones.
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
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This is a reply to # 2,176,462Have you mentioned any of this, especially the lymph node swelling to your doctor? It might be worth mentioning the reflux as well just in case they are connected in some way.
Do you feel tired? Have you noticed anything regarding your muscles, arms & legs? Is your blood pressure okay, normal?- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,476
This is a reply to # 2,176,674Yeah I mentioned both and he didnt say anything about the lymph nodes, he said to take some zantac but only for a few weeks because it's not a solution. Blood pressure must be normal as the nurse didn't say anything about it when she took it. I am very tired all the time and my muscles are tired and weak, if I'm at work and I sit down on top of my legs when I'm rearranging something on a bottom shelf my legs get very hot and kinda have the feeling like when your foot goes to sleep
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
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- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
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This is a reply to # 2,176,416I got a liquid amino acid blend from twin labs...it has 15 g of protein in it from whey im hoping I can digest it, the description says easily digestible
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,620
This is a reply to # 2,176,482Advertisement
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If it is amino acids it should not require any digestion. Your body should not react to them if you have any permeability problems. I wonder whether the lymph nodes and hair loss are a symptom of your body reacting to malabsorbed protein. I have seen people have such problems but the blood pressure is often low in such cases. Or it might possibly be due to hypothyroidism.
It should be okay if it is hydrolyzed whey protein which should provide a pretty decent mix of amino acids.
I found these which might provide alternative sources where you can compare the prices.
http://truenutrition.com
http://www.bionicsportsnutrition.com/amino-acids/?sort=featured&page=1
http://www.mysupplementstore.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=48&q=amino- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,569
This is a reply to # 2,176,679The hair loss is definitely due to the malabsorbed protein...the last time I went through this the hair loss didn't stop until I was on the acid for a few . The lymph nodes and reflux is what confuses me, I never had any of that the last time...what do you think about hiatal hernia? I've been reading up about it and wondering if that could be the reason or partly the reason I'm having reflux and why my supplements won't heal me, maybe they aren't getting to where they need to be or something
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... #159400
10 y
9,713
This is a reply to # 2,176,706Did you read that drmyhill article about reflux? The link worked when I posted it but the site must of been changed. A new link to the article>
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Oesophagitis_and_heartburn_%28GORD%29
It gives the reason as being a too high ph level.
hiatal hernia, possible but I think it can be explained by other causes.
I don't think that it would stop the supplements from getting to your stomach because that is not what hiatal hernia does. It just causes a large opening which can cause reflux. There are other causes which are more likely. I used to have reflux many, many years ago. It diminished, probably because my stomach acid levels dropped even further. You might still be at the point where it all gives symptoms of reflux. If left it could stop entirely due to even further lowering of your stomach acid.- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
10 y
9,474
This is a reply to # 2,177,428Advertisement
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Yes I read the article. It just seems like I could have it because all the symptoms. My stomach feels pain like I took too many acid pills, whether I eat anything or not. I read about it stressing the vagus nerve which can cause over and under releasing of HCL, and because of the open valve at the bottom of the stomach, the secretions are lost before they are effective. Seems to make sense as to why I'm not absorbing much. Im going to see a chiropractor on Monday to see if he can help. I've been doing the exercises to help and so far my throat seems less soar in the morning.
- Re: Need some advice on reflux and g... CatAttack93
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