God's strength knows only the limita... 
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God's strength knows only the limitation of you not receiving it.
I know we have readers from many different Christian belief systems. I don't want to upset anyone, but for those of us who do believe that God still speaks to us through words that He gives to others here is a link to a great word.
http://www.jmmgrace.com/teachings8-V17.html
Click on number 18 Receiving God's Promises.
The first 9 to 10 minutes is the Lord speaking. A woman speaks first and then Jim continues with a word from the Lord. Of course, I know all words such as this need to be judged as the Bible tells us to do. I also know that it has to be in agreement with the Bible. I have examined this word on both accounts and highly believe this is a direct word from God. :)
I am posting, not to cause division, but I believe some of the readers may need to hear the Lord speaking this to them today.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,716
The Bible: An All-Sufficient Book
Cecil Willis
In our first article on all-sufficiency, printed in last month's TRUTH MAGAZINE, we emphasized that Jesus Christ is an all-sufficient Savior. If you ever had any doubt that He is sufficient, we hope that we removed that doubt. In this article we want to suggest that the Bible is an all-sufficient book. By "all sufficient," we merely mean that the Bible is equal to the end proposed by God for it. It is all that we need to lead us from earth to heaven. The fact that the Bible is the product of an omnipotent God should be sufficient proof to demonstrate to us that it is sufficient to accomplish God's purpose for it. The Bible affirms its own inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16, 17; 2 Pet. 1 :20, 21; I Cor. 2:13; Gal. 1:12). The Bible also refers to God as an infinite God who is perfect in all His ways (Ps. 18:30; Isa.. 55 :8, 9; 1 Cor. 1:21-25). Therefore when God gave us the Bible, being an Almighty God (Rev. 4:8), He made the book adequate to the ends He proposed for it.
The Bible Claims To Be an All-sufficient Book. Not only does the Bible claim for itself inspiration, it also DE CLAREs that it is all-sufficient. Observe what the Bible claims for itself in the following passages.
- 2 Tim. 3:16, 17 - "Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work." By the Scriptures the man of God is outfitted unto every good work.
- 2 Pet. 1 :3, 4 - "Seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of him that called us . . ." What more could you want?
- John 20:30, 31 -- "Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name."
- The Holy Spirit guided the inspired writers to reveal "all truth" (Jno. 16:18) for all time (Jude 3). No other revelation is needed.
- "Isa. 55:10, 11 - "For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." The Bible may not accomplish everything some man may think it should accomplish. But God DE CLAREs it will accomplish everything He wants it to accomplish. That is precisely what we mean when we say the Bible is an allsufficient book. We mean it is capable of performing the things that God intended that it perform.
- Man is not able to find his own way to heaven (Jer. 10:23), If he were, there would have been no need for the Bible. But since men flounder in the quagmires of sin, God gave them a revelation to "open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God" (Acts 26:18). The gospel is God's power to save (Rom. 1:16), and it is perfectly sufficient, being "able to save your souls" (Jas. 1:21).
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This is a reply to # 2,117,749
Question: "What is the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture? What does it mean that the Bible is sufficient?"
Answer: The doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith. To say the Scriptures are sufficient means that the Bible is all we need to equip us for a life of faith and service. It provides a clear demonstration of God’s intention to restore the broken relationship between Himself and humanity through His son Jesus Christ, our Savior through the gift of faith, revealing their election and salvation as a result of His death and resurrection on the cross. No other writings are necessary for this good news to be understood, nor are any other writings required to equip us for a life of faith.
When discussing Scripture, Christians are referring to both Old and New Testaments. The Apostle Paul DE CLAREd that the holy Scriptures “are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:15-17). If Scripture is “God-breathed,” then it is not man-breathed and, although it was penned by men, those “men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21). No man-made writing is sufficient to equip us for every good work; only the Word of God can do that. Furthermore, if the Scriptures are sufficient to thoroughly equip us, then nothing more is needed.
Colossians 2 is a perfect example of the dangers a church faces when the sufficiency of Scripture is challenged and merged with non-biblical writings, full of ungodly theology and concepts. Paul warned the church at Colosse: “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ” (Colossians 2:8). Jude says it even more specifically when he writes “although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3). Notice the phrase “once and for all.” This makes it clear that no other writings, no matter how godly the pastor, theologian or denominational church they may come from, are to be seen as equal to or completing the Word of God. The Bible contains all that is necessary for the believer to understand the character of God, the nature of man, and the doctrines of sin, heaven, hell, and salvation through Jesus Christ. Paul’s words to the Galatians indicate the seriousness of delivering a message outside the Bible: “If we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:8).
Perhaps the strongest verses on the issue of sufficiency of the Bible come from the book of Psalms. In Psalm 19:7-14, David rejoices in God’s Word, declaring it to be perfect, trustworthy, right, radiant, enlightening, sure and altogether righteous. As such, no other writings are necessary because the Bible is inspired by God and all we need for salvation, life in Christ, and the building of the Kingdom.
The sufficiency of Scripture is under attack today and sadly, that attack comes far too often in our own churches. Management techniques, worldly methods of drawing crowds, entertainment, extra-biblical revelations, mysticism, and some forms of psychological counseling all DE CLARE that the Bible and its precepts are not adequate for the Christian life. But Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me” (John 10:27). His voice is all we need to hear and the Scriptures are His voice, completely and utterly sufficient.
Michael Houdmann.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,749Vektek, this post was not for you. I already know that you don't believe that parts of the Bible are for today. Please realize that there are many of us that do believe and do covet earnestly the best gifts as the Bible tells us to do. I just thought that someone may be blessed by the word and may even have desperately needed it. I didn't think it would start an argument because you said you would not respond to my posts that you do not agree with.
Vektek, many of us who post here, as well as the readers, love you. We can see that you love Jesus and have contributed much to the Christian forums. The problem is that many of us are not going to take a giant step backwards in our faith to go along with your beliefs. I just don't love you that much. We love Jesus more than we love you. We desire more than anything to please Jesus and to attain all that He wants for our lives. I plan to go as deep into the things of the Lord as I can whether you approve of it or not. Those of us who know the truth of the matter I'm sure feel the same way.
You can say I am using a line like your husband did. It can only be a line if it is not real. Many people do only have a line to offer others. I have more than a line. My experiences are real! I hope that someday you will see that, but if you don't I will chose Jesus and all He has for me any day over you. And yes, I still love you.
Verses from
1 Corinthians 12 (King James Version)
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,768I'm sorry, I forgot I said that about not posting replies to your post that I don't agree with. I have a lot on my mind right now. I should have started another thread for the articles on the Bible's sufficiency, especially since my posts were not meant for you anyway either (as I know what you believe also) but for others to hopefully not be swayed into the deception that the bible is not sufficient.
Let me make something very clear though. I have never asked anyone ever, to choose me over Jesus. It's comments like these that boggle my mind.
You are asking people to listen to a man that says he is speaking directly from God. That is very dangerous my friend!
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This is a reply to # 2,117,774The Bible tells us to judge those words. If the word is not in agreement with the Bible then yes, it is dangerous if we are so foolish as to not judge and test the spirits as the Bible tells us to do. If we have done that, we know it is not from God and walk away as I have done many times. I have heard many words that I do not trust to be of God. I'm not going to throw away what God wants for me just because people try to get in the way. People will do that. People have their own motives. Some like to manipulate others with words they say are from God. Some like to puff themselves up etc. I am not scared of what is really from God. He wants me to receive from Him.
You can spend all day posting articles written by men on the sufficiency of the Bible if you want to. It's too bad they do not really believe that the Bible is sufficient enough believe it! You are the one that is deceived in this regard. Sadly, you are the one who is swaying people into deception in this area. I want people to receive all that the Lord has for them even if you do not approve.- Re: God's strength knows only the li... vektek
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This is a reply to # 2,117,785Rainy, those articles contain scriptures of the Bible proclaiming it's own sufficiency. The other parts of the article didn't even need to be there, but it was more convenient for me since I lack time today to look all those scriptures up myself.
Plus, I did really like the last article especially with it's warning of what is happening more than ever today as so many are moving away from the sufficiency of scriptures, saying it's not sufficient, in favor of listening to men who say they are the voice of God now, completing what God apparently could not complete (according to them).
Also, I do believe ALL of the bible Rainy. But I also believe the bible has to be rightly divided and studied within context, and that we must see who the scriptures are talking to in each passage, as I've said many times before. Just like me, you don't believe the Sabbath law in the ten commandments applies to Christians today. Well why not? Are you throwing out parts of the bible? I know, as for me, I'm not throwing that part of the bible out, but seeing that that command was given to the Israelites alone, and not to all people. To command it for everyone today, which many do, would lead people into deception. Right? So, what do you say, because you don't teach people they should keep the Sabbath command of the ten commandments, are you throwing that part of the bible out?
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This is a reply to # 2,117,803You are the one that is not rightly dividing the Word. You are allowing yourself to be brainwashed by ministers that do not rightly divide the Word. You are allowing yourself to listen to ministers that twist the Word to fit their beliefs. Of course their articles are going to contain scriptures. How else will they be able to deceive? I believe they may be sincerely deceived ministers, but they sure know how to make the devil happy. Keeping Christians away from the whole truth makes the devil smile. Pray for the Holy Spirit to interpret the scripture for you, instead of looking to articles of man. Pray for discernment.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,815How easy it is to deceive people if you can convince them that you are now speaking new revelation from God? This is Satan's grand plan to deceive people, and it is working very well, and it saddens me that you have been deceived in this way.
There are many scriptures in this thread that speak for themselves that they are sufficient and need nothing else added, and here are two more that are a huge warning, DON'T BE ADDING TO THEM OR LISTENING TO ANYONE THAT DOES!
Proverbs 30:6
6 Do not add to his words,
lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,908"How easy it is to deceive people if you can convince them that you are now speaking new revelation from God?"
---------------------
I agree with this statement. Words from the Lord spoken through people are not to be new revelation outside of the Bible. If it is then, of course, we know it is not of God. This is how many cults start.
You are really twisting what this gift of the Spirit really is.
Did you even listen to the message from the Lord that I posted in the original post? There was nothing in it that conflicted with the Bible. It was meant to encourage a hurting person in the Lord. I thought someone needed to hear it so I posted it. Now it has turned into mud slinging instead.
What does God think of this?
Haven't you ever heard God speak directly to you in a very clear voice? He speaks to our spirit which is as clear as an audible voice, but is not an audible voice. Do you also believe that Christians should reject these words too?- Re: God's strength knows only the li... vektek
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This is a reply to # 2,117,915All I know is that there are a whole lot of people, many of them in the charismatic movement, saying they are bringing new revelation. That was what I was trying to warn you all of not too long ago, which all seemed to be rejected or ignored, even with direct quotes from many of these deceivers saying they were bringing new revelation.
But regardless of whether someone is saying they are bringing new revelation from God or not, doesn't matter to me. When someone says they are speaking directly from God, then no, I'm not interested. I have the Bible, the perfect written word for that. If someone wants to speak for God in an audible voice, and share that with someone, then just quote scripture!
I started to listen to that message you put up, but I couldn't get past that trance song.
I think God is pleased when someone stands up against the deceptions of the devil. I don't call doing that mudslinging.
And I am not alone. Many Christians are standing up against the whole idea of anyone saying God is speaking directly through them. I hope and pray many more will start to stand up as this deception is growing daily!
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This is a reply to # 2,117,928Words of knowledge and wisdom are not deception. They are gifts of the Spirit as is the interpretation of tongues. Some people may pretend it to deceive and we need to be aware of that and judge it as such.
The lady was not in a trance.
You are throwing truth out with dirty bath water again.- Re: God's strength knows only the li... vektek
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This is a reply to # 2,117,931I didn't say the lady was in a trance. But it sounded like something designed to put whoever was listening to it into a trance.
No, I'm not throwing out truth, but upholding the truth that the scriptures are sufficient, and that we don't need anyone telling us they are speaking directly from God, unless they are quoting scripture.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,942"we don't need anyone telling us they are speaking directly from God"
-
The Bible disagrees with you so I'm going with what the Bible teaches whether you approve or not.
She sang a song. The words were:
Rivers of love, rivers of love, rivers of refreshing are flowing.
They're flowing rivers of love.
Rivers of refreshing, rivers of cleansing, rivers of love are flowing, flowing in this place.
Gentle waters, gentle waters are flowing in this place.
Rivers of love coming from the Father, coming from the Father.
Rivers of love, rivers of compassion, rivers of refreshing are flowing. They're flowing. They're flowing. The rivers are flowing in this place.
Jump in. Jump in. Jump into the river of His love. Jump into the rivers of His refreshing. Jump into the rivers of His compassion. Jump in. Jump into the water.
Oh jump into the water. It's flowing. They're flowing. Gentle waters are flowing. They're flowing. etc.
Be refreshed. Be healed. Be refreshed. Be renewed in the water. Be refreshed. Be renewed. Be healed in the waters of His love. Rivers of love are flowing. Rivers of love are flowing in this place. Jump in. Jump in. Jump in and receive. Jump in and receive and flow with the waters of love, the waters of His love, the waters of His love.
I MAY HAVE MISSED SOME OF IT BUT YOU GET THE IDEA.
She then continued...
Oh, if you only knew, oh if you only knew of My love for you. I love you so much. I love you so much. I know, I know you are hurting. I know you are hurting. From the very depths of your heart to your bones you are hurting, but I love you more than that hurt you are feeling.
I love you so much. I love you and I desire to comfort you. I desire to bring you up. I desire to bring you up above sorrow and grief. I know you are hurting. I love you so much. I love you so much. My heart, My heart is for you. My heart is for you and I desire to comfort you. Come, come unto me and let me wrap my arms around you and comfort you and love you and strengthen you and empower you with grace to walk day by day with Me.
I have not left your side. I will never leave you. I will never forsake you. I love you with an everlasting love and I love you so deeply, so deeply and I know your pain. I know your pain and I want to heal your pain. I want to heal your pain. I want to heal your broken heart.
I want you to know me and know my love and know my compassion for you. I desire that. I desire that for you to know me and to know my compassion and how much I want to lift you up and to give you strength. I want you to know my love and my compassion. I love you. I love you saith the Lord. I love you. I love you says the Lord your God, your Abba, your Daddy. Your Father loves you. I love you. Come to Me. Come to Me. Come into my presence and I will give you rest. I will give you rest and I will comfort you and I will strengthen you. I will heal you. I will heal your broken heart says the Lord.
Then Jim comes in with another word:
My strength is the strength that you need to face anything and to go through anything in life. My strength will enable you to stand up to any valley or mountain that you come across as you follow me. My strength is the strength that you need to accomplish anything that I tell you to do for Me. My strength is the strength you need to win every battle.
There are times you will face things that you do not think you can go through, but you don't know how you can overcome. You don't know how you can make it. In and of yourself that is true for you do have limitations in and of yourself, but there are no limitations on me.
My strength knows only the limitation of you not receiving it, but My strength is the strength you need for everything in life. For did I not say in My word to be strong in Me and the power of My might. There is nothing that I cannot conquer if I am allowed to move in the lives of My children.
I will show you how to overcome everything. I will show you how to live as more than a conqueror. I will give to you a strength that originates only from me and it is the strength you need to make it through everything. When those thoughts began to rise up and you began to have feelings that I can't go on, I can't do anymore, I can't take anymore, It's because you are trying to reason things out with your own mind and your own strength. My strength is the strength you need for everything. I have not left you alone and I never will. Receive from me the supernatural strength that will enable you to make it through everything says the Lord. From: http://www.jmmgrace.com/teachings8-V17.html
Vektek, there is no new revelation in any of this. This is the heart of God our Heavenly Father as He revealed Himself to us in the Bible. He just wanted to remind us of this here today as we can so easily forget. I strongly felt that He wanted to encourage us in Him today. That is why I posted and not to start an argument.
God is not pleased with all this fighting. I have a feeling that He has better things for me to do with my time. I probably will be disabling my account shortly. I am not mad at you or anyone. I just want to obey the Lord and use my time as He wants me to.- Re: God's strength knows only the li... vektek
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This is a reply to # 2,117,951Show me where it says in the bible we need anyone to speak to us directly from God now that the bible is complete? Maybe I've missed something?
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This is a reply to # 2,117,9551 Corinthians 14
King James Version (KJV)
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (This verse shows tongues as a prayer language speaking to God)
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. (This verse shows tongues as given as a message from God in a church setting where there needs to be an interpreter. Of course this word needs to be judged to see if it really is a word from God.)
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. (This verse shows tongues as a prayer language speaking to God)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
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This is a reply to # 2,117,968So the word in the original post was the woman and Jim prophesying to edify the church. It was a good word and very uplifting.- Re: God's strength knows only the li... vektek
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This is a reply to # 2,117,969I'm up way to late as it is, so yes, I'm going to take the easy way out here and post another article that I agree with on this and a youtube video too. I'm sure a lot more could be said about all this than what I'm posting down below.
I'm for sure no expert on the whole tongues issue. I'd like to study it more, but I've studied it enough already at least to be convinced in my own mind.
I'm sorry I got involved in this discussion, unless it has helped someone. But I need to stick to what I said before that I wouldn't respond to your posts Rainy, unless I agreed with them. Thanks for reminding me of that. I really need to make that the rule for myself with not just your posts, but everyone else's too, since I don't have time to debate anyone.
Article on have tongues ceased?
1 Cor 13:8-10 says that tongues will cease and that prophecy and knowledge will fade and disappear when 'that which is perfect' has come. What is meant by 'that which is perfect' in 1 Cor 13:10 KJV?
1) 1 Cor 13:8 says that tongues, prophecy and knowledge will cease. When will they cease?
2) 1 Cor 13:9-10 say that prophecy and knowledge will cease when “that which is perfect is come”.
3) In Greek, the words “that which” and “perfect” are in the neuter form. So, “that which is perfect” cannot be referring to Jesus as the words are not masculine. (in Eph 4:13, G5046 is masculine).
4) When 1 Cor was written, the Bible was incomplete ... it was 'in part', and that is why prophecy and knowledge, in 1 Cor 13:9, were said to be 'in part'. When the Bible was completed, this special, revelatory prophecy and knowledge ceased because all the future prophecy and special knowledge which God wanted us to have was now contained in the Bible. The word 'perfect' can be translated 'complete' or 'finished' and these words describe our 'that which is perfect' Bible.
The inspired writers of the Bible were given futuristic prophecy and special knowledge. Futuristic prophecy, such as Revelation, was given to these men to foretell the things which God wanted to reveal to man. Supernatural knowledge was needed to explain things like redemption, Christian living, church guidelines etc. After these things were recorded in Scripture, this type of prophecy and knowledge ceased so Scripture cannot be added to today. Normal knowledge will never cease but will continue forever and increase greatly after Jesus' return. Today, we are encouraged to grow in biblical knowledge and to prophecy in the form of biblical preaching, as in 1 Cor 14:24-25, which saves and edifies souls.
What was the purpose of tongues?
1) 1 Cor 14:22 says, “Tongues then ... are a sign for unbelievers”. The word “then” (“Wherefore” in the KJV) means that this verse is referring back to the previous verse(s).
2)1 Cor 14:21 says that God will speak to “this people”. The New Testament term “this people” always refers to Jews and the unbelievers being referred to in 1 Cor 14:22 (from Isa 28:11-13) were Jews.
3) In Acts, whenever tongues was used Jews were present.
4) So, the purpose of tongues was to be a sign to unbelieving Jews. One sign was to show that salvation was for the Gentiles also (hence the foreign languages). Clearly, the sign is no longer needed.
5) Tongues was also a sign of judgment against the Jews. The quote in 1 Cor 14:21-22 comes from Isa 28:11-13 where judgment is pronounced against Israel. Their Temple was destroyed in 70AD.
Tongues is nowhere said to be a sign of a Christian being saved through receiving the Holy Spirit, nor is it said to be either a Prayer Language, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or Tongues of Angels. These things can only be read into the text. The Bible only says that tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, nothing more.
Mick Alexander
Have tongues ceased video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGCLc9KtfIE
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This is a reply to # 2,117,986
Vektek, you are so brainwashed by false teaching that I honestly don't think there is any hope for you to come to truth on this issue. You talk about how you believe in rightly dividing the word and interpreting the word in context and yet you don't do this yourself. It sounds like a good line to help give you credibility, but you are obviously trusting minister's false teachings to be rightly dividing the word etc. for you. I wish you would get serious about seeking the Holy Spirit for truth. At any rate I don't have a lot of time to keep arguing, but for the sake of our readers I will try one more time just in case it may help any of them that may have become confused on the issue.
Here is the article that you posted:
Article on have tongues ceased?
1 Cor 13:8-10 says that tongues will cease and that prophecy and knowledge will fade and disappear when 'that which is perfect' has come. What is meant by 'that which is perfect' in 1 Cor 13:10 KJV?The answer to this question is in the context of the chapter. Verse 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1) 1 Cor 13:8 says that tongues, prophecy and knowledge will cease. When will they cease?
2) 1 Cor 13:9-10 say that prophecy and knowledge will cease when "that which is perfect is come".
3) In Greek, the words "that which" and "perfect" are in the neuter form. So, "that which is perfect" cannot be referring to Jesus as the words are not masculine. (in Eph 4:13, G5046 is masculine).Yes, I suppose he figures he can really add credibility to his article by pointing to Greek. After all, who knows Greek? Practically no one would dare question him now. He can now really twist things and he has. Perfect here in Greek means to reach a complete state of perfection or your final goal.
4) When 1 Cor was written, the Bible was incomplete ... it was 'in part', and that is why prophecy and knowledge, in 1 Cor 13:9, were said to be 'in part'. When the Bible was completed, this special, revelatory prophecy and knowledge ceased because all the future prophecy and special knowledge which God wanted us to have was now contained in the Bible. The word 'perfect' can be translated 'complete' or 'finished' and these words describe our 'that which is perfect' Bible.This is false teaching and does not hold up when you study the Bible. This is a made up interpretation of men.
The inspired writers of the Bible were given futuristic prophecy and special knowledge. Futuristic prophecy, such as Revelation, was given to these men to foretell the things which God wanted to reveal to man. Supernatural knowledge was needed to explain things like redemption, Christian living, church guidelines etc. After these things were recorded in Scripture, this type of prophecy and knowledge ceased so Scripture cannot be added to today.The Scripture is indeed God-breathed and men who operate in the gifts of the Spirit today are not to added to the Scripture with their gifts. Many operated in the gifts in biblical times too, but it was never recorded as Scripture. God never intended it to be Scripture.
Normal knowledge will never cease but will continue forever and increase greatly after Jesus' return. Today, we are encouraged to grow in biblical knowledge and to prophecy in the form of biblical preaching, as in 1 Cor 14:24-25, which saves and edifies souls.
This statement is true, however, the gift of the word of knowledge will cease when that which is perfect is come. The gift of the word of knowledge is different than normal knowledge.
What was the purpose of tongues?
1) 1 Cor 14:22 says, "Tongues then ... are a sign for unbelievers". The word "then" ("Wherefore" in the KJV) means that this verse is referring back to the previous verse(s).
2)1 Cor 14:21 says that God will speak to "this people". The New Testament term "this people" always refers to Jews and the unbelievers being referred to in 1 Cor 14:22 (from Isa 28:11-13) were Jews.
3) In Acts, whenever tongues was used Jews were present.
4) So, the purpose of tongues was to be a sign to unbelieving Jews. One sign was to show that salvation was for the Gentiles also (hence the foreign languages). Clearly, the sign is no longer needed.
5) Tongues was also a sign of judgment against the Jews. The quote in 1 Cor 14:21-22 comes from Isa 28:11-13 where judgment is pronounced against Israel. Their Temple was destroyed in 70AD.You and the writer of this article do not understand the diversity of tongues which is very clearly presented in the Bible. I will try to explain it. I don't have time to hunt up a lot of scripture for you, but let me encourage you to study the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit instead of articles written by men who do not know what they are talking about.
One kind of tongue is meant to be as a sign for unbelievers. This happened in the Bible and it is also happening today. I have heard many testimonies of this. This seems to be the only one the two of you know of so I guess I don't need to elaborate on this one.
The Bible also speaks of tongues for interpretation. 1 Corinthians 12:30 makes this clear. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?" This kind of tongue is when the Holy Spirit moves on someone to give a message in tongues in church or a gathering of Christians. Someone then must interpret. The Holy Spirit must move on someone to interpret and the person interprets as the Holy Spirit gives them the interpretation.
The Bible also speaks of a kind of tongue that is speaking mysteries to God. The term "prayer language" is not used in the Bible, however, the "term prayer language" is the term that man has given to this kind of tongue. This kind of tongue is used in private prayer. This is also called praying in the Spirit. This is the kind of tongue that Paul was referring to when he said that he speaks in tongues more than them all. Because the Holy Spirit helps us pray this is very powerful prayer.
Tongues is nowhere said to be a sign of a Christian being saved through receiving the Holy SpiritI would agree with this statement.
, nor is it said to be either a Prayer Language, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or Tongues of Angels. These things can only be read into the text. The Bible only says that tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, nothing more.
Mick AlexanderI think I have shown above that the Bible does not "only say that tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, nothing more." This is a false statement by the writer of the article, but then most of the article is filled with false statements.
As for the video that you posted of the guy with the cute accent, I did listen to it. The guy doesn't have a clue as to how to interpret these scriptures.
I was really surprised that Tim Conway got most of it right. I just clicked on his video that I saw on the side bar after listening to the one you posted. I thought he would give the same wrong interpretation as the guy that you posted. He seems a little confused on some things, but for the most part Tim has the scripture interpretation right. For example, I'm pretty sure that the belief that all must speak in tongues in order to be saved is not a Charismatic error. It definitely is an error, but from what I've seen it is from those groups that are considered a cult. I don't claim to be Charismatic, but have been to churches that do and I have not seen that error in any of them that I've been to. I have not been to Pentecostal/Charismatic churches that are considered a cult. Why go to something that I know is off? I do claim to be Pentecostal as my experiences with the Lord line up with that belief system which is very biblical.
Tim doesn't seem to understand the different kinds of tongues so he got off trying to explain some of this.
Here is a link to Tim's video if anyone is interested. It definitely has more truth than the one that Vektek posted, but it is far from perfect. I just recommend listening to the first half which was pretty good. It may help you understand some things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMkpn0iZonA
I really don't have anymore time to spend on this. I know I did not go into a lot of detail to debate these issues, but I just don't have the time. Hopefully, I did post enough information to cause people to think for themselves and to search the scripture for themselves. Hopefully, this will cause people to seek the Holy Spirit to teach them the truth of the matter. I'm sorry. I just don't have the time to do any better than this.
If you respond, Vektek, with more false articles etc. I doubt I will reply back. It will be because I don't have the time and not that I agree with your false teaching.
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This is a reply to # 2,118,273I decided to embed Tim's video because it looks like the link may not work.
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This is a reply to # 2,118,275I don't know why the video does not start at the beginning. Please start it at the beginning manually as the best part is the first half. The link in my post does not start at the beginning either when I did a copy and paste. I do not know what I am doing wrong.
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This is a reply to # 2,118,356Hey Rainy, that sometimes happens to me as well on some videos...but it seems to start at the beginning just fine for me. Don't know why that happens.
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This is a reply to # 2,118,273
"Vektek, you are so brainwashed by false teaching that I honestly don't think there is any hope for you to come to truth on this issue."
Well I'm not going to give up hope that you can come out of the false teachings you believe Rainy. I know it is only by the grace of God that any of us can come out of deceptions, so I will put my hope and trust in God that he can do whatever he pleases at anytime. Nothing is impossible with God! Luke 1:37
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This is a reply to # 2,118,506I got so excited over your post that I even clicked on the like button. :)
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