From the origins research below:
"Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use." Of course, I'd like to express my deep appreciation to fellow Deist Peter Murphy for the great research work he did in order to write such a great counter-rebuttal!
Added to this is the fact that the bible of Constantine (pagan Roman emperor who created the bible we have today) is in Greek - which was not spoken by Jesus. He spoke Aramaic.
http://www.deism.com/bibleorigins.htm
The Bible's Ungodly Origins
by Robert L. Johnson
Many rank and file Christians sincerely believe the Bible is a direct communication from God to man. I know I used to believe it was when I was a Christian. And from recent conversations with many sincere Christians I know this is currently true for many believers. Once it is proven to our God-given reason that the Bible is strictly a man-made collection of mythology the mind loses yet another shackle of "revelation" and is soon on its way to full freedom and progress.
The Bible was not handed to mankind by God, nor was it dictated to human stenographers by God. It has nothing to do with God. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century.
According to Professor John Crossan of Biblical Studies at DePaul University the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (274-337 CE), (a bust of Constantine is pictured below) who was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity, needed a single canon to be agreed upon by the Christian leaders to help him unify the remains of the Roman Empire. Until this time the various Christian leaders could not decide which books would be considered "holy" and thus "the word of God" and which ones would be excluded and not considered the word of God.
Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action - MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders money to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the "word of God" into existence. (I wish to thank Brian Show for pointing out in his rebuttal to this article that the final version of the Christian Bible was not voted on at the Council of Nicaea, per se. The Church leaders didn't finish editing the "holy" scriptures until the Council of Trent when the Catholic Church pronounced the Canon closed. However, it seems the real approving editor of the Bible was not God but Constantine! This fact is revealed in the second counter-rebuttal to Brian Show's first rebuttal to this article. This counter-rebuttal makes the following important statement and backs it up with FACTS - "Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use." Of course, I'd like to express my deep appreciation to fellow Deist Peter Murphy for the great research work he did in order to write such a great counter-rebuttal!
In the landmark work by H.G. Wells, The Outline of History, Vol. I, pages 462-463, we read, "It (the Council of Nicaea) marks the definite entry upon the stage of human affairs of the Christian Church and of Christianity as it is generally understood in the world to-day. It marks the exact definition of Christian teaching by the Nicene Creed."
Constantine ordered and financed 50 parchment copies of the new "holy scriptures." It seems with the financial element added to the picture, the Church fathers were able to overcome their differences and finally agree which "holy" books would stay and which would go.
Compare the man-made origins of Christianity and its various dogmas to the simplicity of Deism. Deism is belief in God based only on reason and the creation itself. It makes no claim to false "revelations" as all of the "revealed" religions do. To Deists, proof of the Designer is in the design.
To quote Thomas Paine, "Were man impressed as fully and as strongly as he ought to be with the belief of a God, his moral life would be regulated by the force of that belief; he would stand in awe of God and of himself, and would not do the thing that could not be concealed from either. To give this belief the full opportunity of force, it is necessary that it acts alone. This is Deism. But when, according to the Christian Trinitarian scheme, one part of God is represented by a dying man, and another part, called the Holy Ghost, by a flying pigeon, it is impossible that belief can attach itself to such wild conceits. . . .
"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is not the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.
"Instead then of studying theology, as is now done out of the Bible and Testament, the meanings of which books are always controverted and the authenticity of which is disproved, it is necessary that we refer to the Bible of the Creation. The principles we discover there are eternal and of divine origin; they are the foundation of all the science that exists in the world, and must be the foundation of theology.
"We can know God only through His works. We cannot have a conception of any one attribute but by following some principle that leads to it. We have only a confused idea of His power, if we have not the means of comprehending something of its immensity. We can have no idea of His wisdom, but by knowing the order and manner in which it acts. The principles of science lead to this knowledge; for the Creator of man is the Creator of science, and it is through that medium that man can see God, as it were, face to face."
On May 12, 1797 while living in Paris, France Tom Paine wrote the following
letter to a Christian friend who was trying to convert Paine to Christianity.
Paine's response fits perfectly with this page regarding the origins of the
Bible.
"In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations
from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on
religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show
that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because
it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.
"But by what authority do you call the Bible the Word of God? for this is
the first point to be settled. It is not your calling it so that makes it so,
any more than the Mahometans calling the Koran the Word of God makes the Koran
to be so. The Popish Councils of Nice and Laodicea, about 350 years after the
time the person called Jesus Christ is said to have lived, voted the books that
now compose what is called the New Testament to be the Word of God. This was
done by yeas and nays, as we now vote a law.
"The Pharisees of the second temple, after the Jews returned from captivity
in Babylon, did the same by the books that now compose the Old Testament, and
this is all the authority there is, which to me is no authority at all. I am as
capable of judging for myself as they were, and I think more so, because, as
they made a living by their religion, they had a self-interest in the vote they
gave.
"You may have an opinion that a man is inspired, but you cannot prove it,
nor can you have any proof of it yourself, because you cannot see into his mind
in order to know how he comes by his thoughts; and the same is the case with the
word revelation. There can be no evidence of such a thing, for you can
no more prove revelation than you can prove what another man dreams of, neither
can he prove it himself.
"It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you
know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The
Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No.
"Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do,
and because you don't is all the reason you can give for believing or
disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do
you know Moses was not an impostor?
"For my own part, I believe that all are impostors who pretend to hold
verbal communication with the Deity. It is the way by which the world has been
imposed upon; but if you think otherwise you have the same right to your opinion
that I have to mine, and must answer for it in the same manner. But all this
does not settle the point, whether the Bible be the Word of God, or not. It is
therefore necessary to go a step further. The case then is: -
"You form your opinion of God from the account given of Him in the Bible;
and I form my opinion of the Bible from the wisdom and goodness of God
manifested in the structure of the universe, and in all works of creation. The
result in these two cases will be, that you, by taking the Bible for your
standard, will have a bad opinion of God; and I, by taking God for my standard,
shall have a bad opinion of the Bible.
"The Bible represents God to be a changeable, passionate, vindictive being;
making a world and then drowning it, afterwards repenting of what he had done,
and promising not to do so again. Setting one nation to cut the throats of
another, and stopping the course of the sun till the butchery should be done.
But the works of God in the creation preach to us another doctrine. In that vast
volume we see nothing to give us the idea of a changeable, passionate,
vindictive God; everything we there behold impresses us with a contrary idea -
that of unchangeableness and of eternal order, harmony, and goodness.
"The sun and the seasons return at their appointed time, and everything in
the creation claims that God is unchangeable. Now, which am I to believe, a book
that any impostor might make and call the Word of God, or the creation itself
which none but an Almighty Power could make? For the Bible says one thing, and
the creation says the contrary. The Bible represents God with all the passions
of a mortal, and the creation proclaims him with all the attributes of a God.
"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for
the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the
prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (I Sam. xv. 3) `Now go and smite Amalek, and
utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man
and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'
"That Samuel or some other impostor might say this, is what, at this
distance of time, can neither be proved nor disproved, but in my opinion it is
blasphemy to say, or to believe, that God said it. All our ideas of the justice
and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God,
just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.
"What makes this pretended order to destroy the Amalekites appear the
worse, is the reason given for it. The Amalekites, four hundred years before,
according to the account in Exodus xvii. (but which has the appearance of fable
from the magical account it gives of Moses holding up his hands), had opposed
the Israelites coming into their country, and this the Amalekites had a right to
do, because the Israelites were the invaders, as the Spaniards were the invaders
of Mexico. This opposition by the Amalekites, at that time, is given as
a reason, that the men, women, infants and sucklings, sheep and oxen, camels and
asses, that were born four hundred years afterward, should be put to death; and
to complete the horror, Samuel hewed Agag, the chief of the Amalekites, in
pieces, as you would hew a stick of wood. I will bestow a few observations on
this case.
"In the first place, nobody knows who the author, or writer, of the book of
Samuel was, and, therefore, the fact itself has no other proof than anonymous or
hearsay evidence, which is no evidence at all. In the second place, this
anonymous book says, that this slaughter was done by the express command of
God: but all our ideas of the justice and goodness of God give the lie to
the book, and as I never will believe any book that ascribes cruelty and
injustice to God, I therefore reject the Bible as unworthy of credit.
"As I have now given you my reasons for believing that the Bible is not the
Word of God, that it is a falsehood, I have a right to ask you your reasons for
believing the contrary; but I know you can give me none, except that you
were educated to believe the Bible; and as the Turks give the same reason
for believing the Koran, it is evident that education makes all the difference,
and that reason and truth have nothing to do in the case.
"You believe in the Bible from the accident of birth, and the Turks believe
in the Koran from the same accident, and each calls the other infidel.
But leaving the prejudice of education out of the case, the unprejudiced truth
is, that all are infidels who believe falsely of God, whether they draw their
creed from the Bible, or from the Koran, from the Old Testament, or from the
New.
"When you have examined the Bible with the attention that I have done (for
I do not think you know much about it), and permit yourself to have just ideas
of God, you will most probably believe as I do. But I wish you to know that this
answer to your letter is not written for the purpose of changing your opinion.
It is written to satisfy you, and some other friends whom I esteem, that my
disbelief of the Bible is founded on a pure and religious belief in God; for in
my opinion the Bible is a gross libel against the justice and goodness of God,
in almost every part of it."
You simply aren't going to brush off Ehrman and his extensive research that easily.
Where I differ with many of the gospel detractors including Ehrman, is that I believe that we are all a part of God. Jesus taught that - as well as many other things that modern Christians (including fundamentalists) simply don't believe.
http://coffeeshopatheist.com/blog/2012/01/bart-ehrman-on-why-the-gospels-are-...
You present nothing, absolutely nothing to counter the fact that the gospels are anonymous books.
The majority of bible scholars and ministers now accept the fact that the gospel authors are anonymous. They also accept that fact that many of the books attributed to Paul are forgeries.
However, there is that segment who struggle with their belief that the bible is inerrant - even though there are conflicts galore and rules they don't follow, that they have to grasp at straws to maintain their belief. That the bible is inerrant has been the foundation of the church trying to control everyone else for centuries.
http://hwarmstrong.com/who-wrote-the-gospels.htm
WHO WROTE THE GOSPELS?
Introduction:
Who Wrote The Gospels?
No
one would trouble to ask such a question if it were not that all four of the
biblical gospels are deliberately, even playfully, anonymous in their texts. The
Third Gospel for example carefully names its audience, Theophilus ("Friend
of God"--Luke 1:3), but never its author; while the last chapter of the
Fourth Gospel takes great pains to identify the author of that work as "the
disciple whom Jesus loved" (John 21:7, 20), and then never tells us his
name! The gospels are so anonymous that their titles, all second-century
guesses, are all four wrong. Christians in the second century, possessing
anonymous manuscripts and eager to give names to them, fastened upon four
historical figures--the Apostles Matthew and John, Luke the "beloved
physician" of Paul (Col. 4:14), and John Mark of Jerusalem, the
"son" of Peter (Acts 12:12; I Peter 5:13). It's relatively easy to
show that these identifications are imaginary and based on wishful thinking, and
I will do so below. But that really is not the most amazing part: what still
surprises is that, paradoxically, though the four gospels are anonymous they in
fact tell us more about their authors than they do about their ostensible
subject, the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
If
the paragraph above surprises you, welcome to the ongoing debate; biblical
scholarship is still chewing on the truly groundbreaking argument of Rudolf
Bultmann, propounded some seventy years ago, that any gospel is a primary source
for the historical situation out of which it arose, and is only a secondary
source for the historical details concerning which it gives information. (Bultmann,
1960, 38)
That
the gospels tell us more about the situations of their origin than about their
subject is a disturbing idea, and remains controversial. As Robert Funk has
recently put it:
Biblical scholars have not been able to make up their minds whether the biblical narratives are about real or fictive events. Or, if they are about both, which is which. The test is a simple one: did the events depicted as having taken place actually take place? Are the gospels essentially fiction or biography? (Funk, 1997, 179)........ (more at the site)
"LOL! Once again you contradict yourself in your own statement"
Not true at all. You are complaining about the article. I'll stand by this statement in that story:
"Christians in the second century, possessing anonymous manuscripts and eager to give names to them, fastened upon four historical figures......"
That's my position and I stand by it. The books didn't even have names until well into the second century. There is no thread of authorship anywhere.
You have never - on this thread or any other, presented information that supports the apostles authorship. Why? Because you can't!
No it doesn't. However, it also means there is no supporting evidence that they did either. Back to Q. There is strong evidence that Q is the basis for the synoptic gospels. One source. No disciples.
"I rest my case, your original statement at the start of this thread was false."
You have no "case" to rest. Bart Ehrman, author of the books below (and many more as well) is a former evangelical minister who began looking at the sources behind the bible and was so appalled that he resigned his ministry and became an agnostic. He threw the baby out with the bath water but he writes great stuff.
The authors of the gospels are unknown. Nobody but nobody knows who wrote them. The majority of the scriptures attributed to Saul/Paul are known forgeries yet they remain in the New Testament.
Because of the many, many, problems with not only the gospels but the rest of the bible as well (the Exodus is a myth), is why I say over and over on Cure Zone that one must have two way conversations with God, Jesus, Mary and any other individuals you choose to chat with including your great great grandmother. They are all eternal spirit and so is everyone else on Planet Earth.
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies.A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude. Since then he has published extensively in the fields of New Testament and Early Christianity, having written or edited twenty-four books, numerous scholarly articles, and dozens of book reviews.
Bart D. Ehrman is the author of more than twenty books, including the New York Times bestselling Misquoting Jesus. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and is a leading authority on the early Church and the life of Jesus. He has been featured in Time and has appeared on NBC's Dateline, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, CNN, The History Channel, major NPR shows, and other top media outlets. He lives in Durham, North Carolina.
http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512/ref...
For almost 1,500 years, the New Testament manuscripts were copied by hand––and mistakes and intentional changes abound in the competing manuscript versions. Religious and biblical scholar Bart Ehrman makes the provocative case that many of our widely held beliefs concerning the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, and the divine origins of the Bible itself are the results of both intentional and accidental alterations by scribes.
In this compelling and fascinating book, Ehrman shows where and why changes were made in our earliest surviving manuscripts, explaining for the first time how the many variations of our cherished biblical stories came to be, and why only certain versions of the stories qualify for publication in the Bibles we read today. Ehrman frames his account with personal reflections on how his study of the Greek manuscripts made him abandon his once ultra–conservative views of the Bible.
http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God-Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/0062012622/ref...
Bart D. Ehrman, the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus, Interrupted and God’s Problem reveals which books in the Bible’s New Testament were not passed down by Jesus’s disciples, but were instead forged by other hands—and why this centuries-hidden scandal is far more significant than many scholars are willing to admit. A controversial work of historical reporting in the tradition of Elaine Pagels, Marcus Borg, and John Dominic Crossan, Ehrman’s Forged delivers a stunning explication of one of the most substantial—yet least discussed—problems confronting the world of biblical scholarship.
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/00...
The problems with the Bible that New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman discussed in his bestseller Misquoting Jesus—and on The Daily Show with John Stewart, NPR, and Dateline NBC, among others—are expanded upon exponentially in his latest book: Jesus, Interrupted. This New York Times bestseller reveals how books in the Bible were actually forged by later authors, and that the New Testament itself is riddled with contradictory claims about Jesus—information that scholars know… but the general public does not. If you enjoy the work of Elaine Pagels, Marcus Borg, John Dominic Crossan, and John Shelby Spong, you’ll find much to ponder in Jesus, Interrupted.
More evidence that the gospels were not written by disciples. Q has been known to be behind the gospels and Q also has an unknown author.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/qthomas.html
by Marilyn Mellowes
Q is the designation for a gospel that no longer exists, but many think must have existed at one time. In fact, even though no copy of this gospel has survived independently, some nineteenth-century scholars found fragments of such an early Christian composition embeded in the gospels of Matthew and Luke.
By putting these two gospels beside that of Mark, scholars realized that when Matthew and Luke are telling the story about Jesus, for the most part they both follow the order and often even the wording of Mark. But, into this common narrative outline, Matthew and Luke each insert extra sayings and teachings of Jesus. And although Matthew and Luke do not put these sayings in the same order, nevertheless they each repeat many of the same sayings, sometimes word for word.
Since for other reasons it seems unlikely that either Matthew or Luke could have copied from the other, how can this sort of agreement be explained? The answer appears to be that Matthew and Luke each had two sources in common: the Gospel of Mark and another gospel, now lost, a collection of sayings known only as Q.
Q stands for "Quelle," the German word for source. Although no actual copy of Q has ever been found, many scholars are convinced that such a document once circulated in early Christian communities. Since it was difficult to get excited about something that did not exist, Q remained a hypothesis that lingered on the edges of scholarly research. But in 1945, a chance discovery in Egypt provided surprisingly new evidence that rekindled interest in the possible existence of Q.
Two brothers were looking for fertilizer at the base of cliffs in the Egyptian region of Nag Hammadi, where the Nile bends on its way from Chenoboskeia to Pabau. As they searched, the brother called Mohammad Ali hit a hard object, concealed under the ground. It proved to be a huge earthen jar, closed with a shallow red dish. At first Mohammad Ali was afraid to open the jar, lest a jinn might be closed up inside it. But finally he summoned the courage to break it, hoping that it might contain gold. Out tumbled, not gold, but twelve books bound in gazelle leather.
These books would prove one of the most important archaeological finds of the twentieth century. And one of the reasons for their importance is the valuable evidence they provide for the existence of the sayings collection known as Q.
These manuscripts, now known as the Nag Hammadi Library, contained a complete manuscript of the Gospel of Thomas. A fragment of this gospel, written in Greek, had been found earlier at Oxyrynchos in Egypt. But it was only a fragment. The text found at Nag Hammadi, although complete, was written in Coptic, which was the form of the Egyptian language in use during later Roman imperial times.
On the basis of this text, however, scholars were able to reconstruct the Gospel of Thomas in Greek, the original language of its composition. By this means, they were able to compare its contents with those of writings found in the New Testament.
The Gospel of Thomas is very different from the gospels that have become part of the New Testament. It contains no narrative material, nor is there any story of the birth, the life, or the death of Jesus. It consists only of sayings, 114 in all, each preceded by the phrase, "And Jesus said." The collected sayings of the Gospel of Thomas are designated by its author as "the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke."
Some of the sayings from the Gospel of Thomas are very much like those found in the gospels of Matthew and Luke, for example:"Jesus said, 'Come to me, for my yoke is easy and my mastery is gentle, and you will find repose.'" (#90) But others are puzzling: "Jesus said, 'Become passers by.'" (#42).
According to this author, salvation is achieved in the recognition of one's origin (the light) and one's destiny (the repose). And in order to return to his or her origin, the disciplemust separate from the world by "stripping off" the garment of flesh and "passing by" corruptible human existence.
For New Testament scholars, one of the most interesting things about this gospel is that its author (who calls himself Didymos Judas Thomas) appears to have used sayings from the same collection used by Matthew and Luke. But for this author and his community, the meaning of these sayings was clearly very different. The Gospel of Thomas, therefore, provided exciting new evidence for the existence of an earlier collection of sayings used by a variety of Christian communities.
In 1989, a team of researchers led by James M. Robinson of the Institute for Antiquity and Christianity in Claremont, CA, began a most unlikely task: the "reconstruction" of the Gospel of Q. Robinson and his team are accomplishing this by a highly detailed literary analysis of Matthew, Luke, and Thomas. Their painstaking work goes "verse by verse, word by word, case ending by case ending." After nearly ten years of work, the results of their efforts are soon to be published as the Critical Edition of Q.
The "recovery" of the Q gospel has stimulated a debate about the nature early Christian communities, and by extension, the origins of Christianity itself. One scholar, Burton Mack, has advanced a radical thesis: that at least some Christian communities did not see Jesus as a Messiah; they saw him as a teacher of wisdom, a man who tried to teach others how to live. For them, Jesus was not divine, but fully human. These first followers of Jesus differed from other Christians whose ritual and practice was centered on the death and the resurrection of Jesus. Their did not emerge as the "winners" of history; perhaps because the maintaining the faith required the existence of a story that included not only the life of Jesus but also his Passion.
"The Professors, from whom you study these writings, must have gotten their PHDs from cracker jack boxes. Try asking the living God where the Bible came from to see if you can get a truthful response. Ask Him sincerely. He will hear you cry out to Him."
First and foremost God does not have a gender. God is neither "He" nor "She" because God is spirit.
Why do you deny the scientific conclusions of scholars?
I communicate with God on a daily basis - a two way communication. We have discussed this subject many times and She points out that Jesus gave an answer to the question thousands of years ago - "Neither look here nor there, because the kingdom of God is within you."
While you're at it tell me why the New Testament is written in Greek? Jesus taught in Aramaic. The only early bible books written in Aramaic have been thrown out by the Roman creators of the New Testament. Also tell me why the forged books attributed to Paul (who happens to have been a Roman) have been left in the bible when seven of them are known to be written by anonymous writers?
That's just for starters. If we go to the Old Testament it gets even wilder yet.
"I
do agree with you that God is Spirit and does not have a gender. He did come to
earth as a man. Jesus was a man. The rest of your ramblings come from your
cracker jack box studies from men who must have gotten degrees from that source
or something similiar to that old famous cracker jack box. Also, a little
advice, test the spirit that you are communicating with to see if it is really
God.
I don't have time to answer your foolish questions."
I don't have any foolish questions - I have all of my answers within me just like Jesus taught.
I have tested the spirit with whom I have a two way communication and there is is no question that it is God. If you or anyone else communicates with God and the voice is any voice except your own - it is not God.
Jesus is not God. He is no different that you or I or anyone else on the Planet. We are each a bright spark of light and a part of the Divine.
By the way, you are hilarious.
"Talking to yourself? That must have been the Cracker Jacks she was talking about. Let us know when you find the prize....it is more likely to be a lot more than just a *spark*."
Your only ability to respond is by putting down others which is practiced by those who have a very low opinion of themselves.
God is within you. Any verbal response will be in your own voice but it can also be energy, feelings, a number of things. Jesus told us that the kingdom of God is within each of us - if you're looking anywhere else it isn't what he taught.
"when you don't even give Jesus the title of Lord and Savoir of your life is nothing but a confusing lie to serve on a platter to people. It gives you a platform to inject poison into new or weak Christians to cause them to fall."
Where did Jesus say he is "Lord and Savior?" Each and every person on the Planet is a bright spark of light and has God within themselves - just as Jesus was and still is.
"I would be willing to guess that at least 90% of born-again Christians have never even heard the word "gnostic christian" before or know anything about the beliefs."
"Born again?" If anyone is "born again" - why are they still here?
"Even as much as I have studied my bible and prayed for understanding...it wasn't until I fasted and asked for deeper spiritual understanding did it even occur to me that curezone is full of gnostics. All the years I have been here I thought they were liberal christians or new christians that needed more time/study/prayer. I could not understand all of this Zionist mind-dung that is flowing like crude oil. What better NWO religion than gnosicism. It draws all sorts of different religions together at once and you don't even need salvation through Christ. You don't need Jesus or Him returning to be King. That would cramp your style now wouldn't it? How glorious they say....salvation for all....except for real Christians. Satan must be real proud of himself on this little plan. Because if Christians don't know their bibles and especially know their God...they will not have a chance to recognize evil when they see it."
In studying the bible one comes up with many conflicts and many lies. Jesus taught that the Golden Rule is equal to the entire bible. It is simple and there are no conflicting concepts.
Matthew 7:12: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
You have failed to answer the question as to why the New Testament is written in Greek when Jesus taught in Aramaic. Let us hear your answer to that one.
"Thank you for noticing. Yes, I do have a low opinon of myself when I
compare myself to God. I am the creation, not the Creator. I am the clay and He
is the Potter. I guess you think you are the Creator as well?
Ex-pentecoastal, dad use to pee on himself? Sound familiar?
I haven't failed anything since I found Jesus."
My dad never peed on himself (nor did I) but I sure saw many others who did -
as a part of their being filled with the "holy spirit." Nobody
has "failed" at anything. Everyone is experiencing life - just
as God designed it.
You and everyone else on the Planet are God - the same as/equal to Jesus:
John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
There are no limitations on being like Jesus. None. Anyone can do it.