The people who claim that stones are a byproduct of the oil and Epsom Salts have never come up with any chemical reaction that can take place in the (living) body that explains their theory. Hveragerti was the closest, except for the fact that his theory only could account for microscopic amounts of saponification, nothing on the order of large amounts of stones.

Not a single person has ever successfully concocted a stone outside of the body with oil, Epsom Salts , or hcl acid.

What you are experiencing is continual formation of stones. There are many factors that can contribute to this. It sucks, but don't alter your rational perceptions of reality just because it sucks.

//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=660406 Here is what Andres Moritz wrote me when I questioned him about why I was passing so many stones. My original question is at the top of the thread if you are interested. By the way your diet sounds fine. Cheese has calcium and protein as well as fat, don't give it up completely.

Hey man.

I'm so close to exactly what you're going through its crazy.

I'm 25 and started Liver Flushing about a year ago. I just finished my 24th Liver Flush about a week ago. I started Liver Flushing after I had a toxic event back in Aug of 2010 when I nearly died from taking regular OTC Prilosec. But I, like you, also led a very unhealthy lifestyle full of junk high protein food, a wide variety of recreational drugs (smoking weed 10-15 times a day for 3 years), and poor stress/emtional management.

My symptoms are somewhat different than yours. I have food intolerances now (gluten and dairy), autoimmune rashes, dark circles under eyes, dry skin, anxiety, poor gut culture, poor digestion, eye floaters and a ton of other symptoms. I do get the occasion outbreak of blemishes. Like you I switched to a very healthy lifestyle. I'm organic vegan, gluten and dairy free, I skin brush once a day, drink aloe vera juice once a day, Liver Flush every two weeks, get to sleep at 10pm and wake at 730a, get 20 minutes of Florida sun a day, and meditate daily. I can safely say that I've gone from 25% health to 75% health.

Even after all of this progress, I'm still not where I thought I'd be after 24 flushes. I produce an endless amount of stones of all colors. Sometimes different colors during the same flush. I can tell you for a fact that the stones are real. I never had any GB pain until I started flushing. During flush #7 I had my first gallbladder attack which was a pain like I've never felt before. The next morning no stones came out. Only time no stones came out during a Liver Flush for me. Pain followed for the next week until I emergency flushed. I release massive amounts of stones and the pain subsided. I knew then that this was for real. The thing is is that it seems like my stones are never ending.

It's making me begin to think that I'm creating new stones due to a malfunction in bile/liver function. Just don't know man.

I'm interested in how your progress goes. Ill be watching. Hit me up if you have any questions.

-taylor

Ivolution,

I can attest to the 'stones' not being green because of the olive oil. I tested that by substituting flaxseed oil for olive oil. The green color is bilirubin from bile.

I believe that the persisting reformation of 'stones' has to do with 'sluggish' bile. There's medical literature to support that these 'soft' stones are formed in the bile ducts in the liver (I don't have a gallbladder), and may be the result of GI tract microbial imbalance. Bile is a natural probiotic and the not so friendly bacteria manage to slow down bile production.

The number of medical journal articles related to intestinal microbiota studies has increased significntly over the last three years. Some are very technical, but in general the medical community is beginning to recognize the complex ecosystem residing in the gut as an organ that performs many functions and if it's thrown out of balance, it can wreak havoc on the human host and other organs.

I'm only recently learning this, because I'm trying to understand the same things as you are; which is "why do the flushes create such dramatic improvements, but yet, the 'stones' never seem to end?" My own regarding Liver Flush success and GI Tract infection will follow below, but first, here's an excerpt from a 2010 physiology journal article:

"D. Disorders of the (Gastro Intestinal Tract) GIT Accessory Organs


1. Cholelithiasis

An involvement of the gut microbiota in the formation of Gallstones has recently been demonstrated. Abnormal metabolism and secretion of cholesterol and bile acids are a primary pathophysiological defect in the formation of gallstones, with intestinal hypomotility and chronic inflammatory changes being contributing factors (326). As discussed previously, gut microbiota plays a central role in the regulation of all of these processes and, as such, is indirectly implicated in cholelithiasis. To demonstrate this, contamination of lithogenic bile with members of the gut microbiota has recently been shown (1, 37). The majority of the cultured bacteria belonged to Enterobacteriaceae, and some isolates to Enteroccocus and Streptococcus genera (1, 37). The presence of gut microbiota members in lithogenic bile could be an indication of increased intestinal permeability during biliary obstruction (332), likely contributing to increased inflammatory response and stone formation. Alternatively, bacterial contamination could instigate lithogenesis by inducing cholestasis."

A lot of reading, but here's my story;

Following my own Candida die-off after a course of Nystatin powder several years ago, I went from an incredible level of energy, to a crash whereby I was indescribably sick. I had brain fog, developed Psoriasis and had joint soreness. Doctors said I had psoriatic arthritis. I also had discomfort in my upper right quadrant. I went to a number of doctors and had chest x-rays, ultrasounds and a number of tests, but mainstream doctors back then wouldn't look for something like candida. They were starting to believe that it was psychosomatic, but I wouldn't give up. The summer heat would make me incredibly weak and I had no tolerance for any foods with fat. Since ultrasound had shown no sign of gallstones, and because I persisted, one of my Doctors decided to perform a gastroscopy and collect a bile sample. I was awake through the whole procedure. I was administered a drug through IV that was intended to stimulate my gall bladder to excrete bile while a sample container in my small intestine collected the sample. It didn't strike me until years later what the Doctor said after he finally pulled out the sample and showed it to me. He said that he had a difficult time collecting a decent sample. When the test results on my bile came back, he said that I tested positive for crystals in my bile and that it was possible that the crystals were causing my discomfort. He said that I could have my gall bladder removed, and that doing so may relieve my discomfort. The surgeon told me that under these circumstances, only about 5% of patients get relief from surgery, but I was desperate, and followed through with the surgery. The surgeon was right; bad idea and no relief. Big mistake! Now I had no gallbladder and was still sick. I went back to my dermatologist. I should have stuck with his program before going to other doctors. He did have me try the liver/gallbladder flush after I had crashed, and before I had my gallbladder out, but I did it halfheartedly, because I didn't believe that it was going to help. I now know that he was on the right track.

He started me on Tanalbit along with some other products, but I noticed that the Tanalbit resulted in significant improvement in my energy. I started to run in '97, because I was starting to feel much more energetic after taking Tanalbit in larger than recommended dosage. I had my ups and downs but restarting a course of Tanalbit along with cholacol (bovine bile salts) and Livaplex, both liver support supplements always re-energized me. It wasn't until 2003 or so that I really started to read about The Clark Flush . Back then curezone was in its infancy. As I read about it though, it started to make sense and I recalled what the doctor had said about my bile 1) he had difficulty collecting a sample and 2) the sample contained crystals. I decided to try The Clark Flush , but I followed it to a "T".

It wasn't until I considered hepatotoxicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatotoxicity

or overloading of the liver with toxins, as the possible reason why I became sick from the die off. Hepatotoxicity leads to cholestasis, or impaired bile flow. Without bile, fats are not digested. Bile is also a natural Antibiotic for the small intestine. So, die-off can lead to toxic liver overload, toxic overload leads to cholestasis. Cholestasis allows opportunistic organisms to populate the digestive tract which leads to more toxins, continued cholestasis, the inability to digest fats, etc. Excess bile in the liver leads to fatty liver disease. I think of the candida toxins as a poison, just like alcohol and other drugs which can damage the liver. It was a vicious cycle for me. A Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis showed that I had overgrowths of Candida Parapsilosis, Pseudomonas Aeruginosa and Staphylococcus Aureus along with undigested fats.
My success was the result of breaking the cycle by restoring bile flow through liver flushes, while fighting the candida and other gram positive organisms with products like Tanalbit. The Clark Paracleanse may have the same effect as Tanalbit. I restored bile flow by using The Clark Flush . Restoring bile flow in and of itself, made a significant difference for me and restored my health, energy and sensitivities to many foods. I have no more joint pain and my Psoriasis has cleared.
I also have measurable, step change improvements in my running performance with each consecutive flush that add credibility to its effectiveness. It's repeatable with each sequence of flushes, and based on that data I've collected, one Clark Flush is just the beginning of the improvement. Each subsequent flush, which are conducted at 2 week intervals, resulted in a measurable increase in my running pace. I have not gone beyond 7 flushes, but that was enough for me to complete my first marathon at the age of 42, and to do it so fast that I qualified for the Boston Marathon. Not an easy feat. 26.2 miles at 7:30 per mile average pace. I like to think of the flushes as being a "defibrillator" for the liver.

I'm still determined to read more of the studies on intestinal microbiota to understand more about how to fully restore the balance so that bile flow is no longer impaired.

The link to the technical artice I referenced earlier is below, but if you want something less technical, this one is easier to read:

http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2012/02/20/gut-microbiota-probiotics-prebi...


http://physrev.physiology.org/content/90/3/859.full


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-04/eaft-gmr041712.php

This explains our problems of low bile output and endless stones. Even mentions my food intolerance and your post adolescent acne. This might be it

http://www.thorne.com/media/alternative_medicine_review/1997/volume_2/Number_...

"I have had success with the olive oil flush procedure, but I have found that by clearing out the colon and doing a coffee enema alone yields more stones and material." -- Rob

"I have passed "tomato seed" light tan stones with only a coffee enema. My Mom has passed 30-40 pea-sized green stones using only the enema. She was having active GB attacks / abdominal distension and a lot of pain when she did them." --Curezone Member

"The green stones are definitely gallstones. How do I know this? Because I've passed them myself when I've eaten NO olive oil. I've seen plenty of bile in my life since we raise and kill our own chickens. Bile is a very bright green. One day I had a pain in my gallbladder - not severe, but a mild pain. A day or two later, in the toilet I saw, in the toilet, a bunch of what looked like bright green peas floating." -- Laurel

"Around the time I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome, I was having a lot of gallbladder attacks and after each one ended, I noticed there were beige and lime green balls floating in the toilet the next day." -- Reagan

"I have also passed stones from Epsom Salts alone, before I drank the olive oil mixture. This is how I know Stephen "Quackwatch" Barrett and other big pharma snakes like him are 100% wrong."

"I got a couple of medium stones out the very first time I did a coffee enema. While releasing the enema, my abdomen made a gurgling sound and when I looked into the toilet I saw the green stones floating among the debris. They looked exactly like the stones that come out with a liver flush." -- Jerome

"Some people including myself have seen gall stones purged just by using the coffee enema itself. But nothing compared to the good ol’ Liver Flush when it comes to confronting gall stones, sluggish liver etc. If you are in a mood for experimenting a really powerful flush, just add a table spoon full of Epsom Salts in your coffee enema and you will see the difference." -- Curezone Member

"The green stones from the liver and gallbladder flush are made from the bile that is made by the liver and stored and concentrated up to ten times it's strength in the gallbladder. I have released the same green stones from doing the coffee enema by itself which has no green pigments and where no olive oil was consumed. I have also released stones with the castor oil pack and The Master Cleanse fasting drink. Liver disease patients have reported passing these same green bile stones after Water Fasting because they were too sick to eat and water does not have any green pigments either." -- Jordan

"I just took the second Epsom Salts drink, couldn't go to the toilet so took a water enema and passed about a dozen very large stones after a series of bowel movements. They were lime green. I'm quite pleased to be passing stones firstly on apple juice alone, and secondly before even drinking the olive oil mixture." -- Curezone Member

"My preferred method of flushing is a combination of Niacin (Vitamin B3), Epsom salts and coffee enemas to establish a safer flush experience. The coffee enema not only dilates the bile ducts but also stimulates the liver to go into a detox dumping mode. I can't say enough about the coffee enema, it is an integral ingredient in the Liver Flush protocol. People, including myself have released liver and Gallstones by doing the coffee enema itself." -- Fatty Liver Website

"Quite a few individuals, including myself have sometimes passed green cholesterol stones on the evening of the flush, even before the oil mixture was ingested. Others have reported releasing stones during the apple juice phase, all without the help of oil. The stones that come out on their own have no different shape, size, smell or color than the ones released during the flush. " -- Andreas Moritz

"It is a medically proven fact that millions of people regularly pass a huge volume of green sludge, sometimes consisting of Gallstones after eating a very fatty meal." -- Andreas Moritz

"I personally experienced over forty gallbladder attacks over a period of ten years and my gallbladder was packed full of stones, causing a painful, short spinal scoliosis. Since my first liver cleanse, I have never experienced another attack. The scoliosis along with all of my other health problems vanished after my 12th cleanse and since then, I haven't yielded any more stones during my yearly maintenance flushes." -- Andreas Moritz

"Thousands of people have reported releasing stones of all different colors: black, yellow, green, white, beige, red and tan. Olive oil doesn't have coloring agents in it to produce stones of different colors." Andreas Moritz

"Olive oil does not assume the putrid smell that emanates from most released gallstones. The smell is unlike that of any fecal matter. " -- Andreas Moritz

"The olive oil mixture does not even go through the liver, as it would if it were combined with food. Therefore, during the liver cleanse, the liver does nothing but release Gallstones and bile. Neither the liver nor the small intestine can act as a soap stone factory." -- Andreas Moritz

"Because of intolerance to olive oil, some people have used for example, macadamia nut oil during their cleanses and released precisely the same green-colored stones. Cholesterol stones that exactly match these green stones are found in the bile ducts of dissected livers." -- Andreas Moritz

There is a simple method that Andres Moritz spoke of where you dissolve inert charcoal into the olive oil and watch it turn black. You then do the flush with this oil which is totally harmless. The black substrate comes out however with the green and calcified stones, hence showing that the olive oil is not forming the stones or alternatively you can have them tested if you are still a little unsure. I have been in a very similar situation to you as I liked my Sugar and parties. Eventually liver kicked in. I have been years trying to regain full health and about 13 flushes later I am starting to feel allot better. I think the missing link for me was solving why the stones were forming in the first place. Repressed anger seems to have been the culprit and with the use of (EFT) Tapping I am now well on my way to full health. Peace brother.