Organic Debate 
#69242
18 y
1,530
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Original Hulda Clark
Hulda Clark Cleanses
Organic Herbal Detox Kit
9 Days complete detox. 40% off with coupon ’40off123’
Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
Some select quotes from Consumer Reports issue Feb 2006:
>>>"During the past decade, US organic sales have grown 20% or more annually"<<<
>>>"Consumer spending on organic has grown so much that we've attracted big players who want to bend the rules so that they can brand their products as organic without incurring the expenses involved in truly living up to organic standards."<<<
>>> "A Georgia chicken producer was ultimately able to persuade one of his state's congressional reps to slip through a federal legislative amendment in a 2003 appropriations bill to cut its cost. The amendment stated that if the price of organic feed was more than twice the cost of regular feed -- which can contain heavy metals, pesticides, and animal by products -- then livestock producers could feed their animals less costly, non-organic feed but still label their products organic.
The bizarre change in standards was repealed in 2003 after consumers and organic producers protested, but the fight to maintain the integrity of organic labeling continues. In Oct 2005, Congress weakened the organic-labeling law despite protests from more than 325,000 consumers and 250 organic food companies."<<<
Pick up a copy if you can. It's very interesting. It appears that people truly want to be healthy and are catching on, but at the same time its being corrupted by Govt giving into big biz. So it appears that MH is correct in that there isn't (or certainly won’t be) much credibility behind the organic label! Bottom line: Buy from those you trust, whether it is advertised organic or not.
Best, PB
- Re: Organic Debate trapper/kcmo
18 y
1,389
This is a reply to # 195,553yea, i look at walmart and see libby's and delmonte organic stuff in cans and laugh! sure, mack, sure, tell me another one!!!!
- Re: Organic Debate #69242
18 y
1,340
MoreThis is a reply to # 195,557I don't know much about those brands, but I would guess big companies probably don't have to do much to get in on the action. Its sad. People are responding in droves to health, only to be swindled by greed and corruption.
If you want to compete in the organic arena, you should have to conform to the strictest standards, not be allowed to pay off an elected official whose job it is to serve and protect the public. So, in my view its really not big business thats failing, it is the morality of the individuals playing in the game.
PB
- Re: Organic Debate #69242
18 y
1,340
- Re: Organic Debate prosperous
18 y
1,529
MoreThis is a reply to # 195,553But how do you ever find a source you really trust? Can we really trust anybody these days to produce a superior product that costs more when it's all about the highest profit margins? Sticking to a certain established standars, set of rules to guide what is ok and what isn't, seems to ensure at least certain level of quality for me. I buy almost exclusively organic and I will be so upset once the standards are so weakened I won't be able to trust them. Who do you trust? And why? Even the smaller growers may fudge and cut corners if they get greedy.
- Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic Deb... #49156
18 y
1,820
This is a reply to # 195,553Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
Here's a Google search on "imported herbs":
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&...
pesticides, OR ddt, OR fertilizer, OR customs "imported herbs" - Google Search- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,280
This is a reply to # 195,61249156,
What's your point in posting a google search of imported herbs? Imported herbs were not even brought up in this thread. Is it your contention Barefoot gets his herbs from international exporters of herbs that use chemical fertilizers? Or do you feel we are not capable of researching this ourselves, thus giving us lemmings a head start with your genius search parameters? TIA.
PB- Edited #25274
18 y
1,280
This is a reply to # 195,753
Sorry PBuddy,
I think you are a little too harsh,poster is clearly very concerned
about this.I think MH is right about this,and again,of all available herbs,I trust his to be the best
another one
http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=566&i=526
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,371
This is a reply to # 195,756Sorry, I still don't see the relevance to my initial post. I agree with MH as well. If asking legitimate questions is "too harsh" then I guess I don't know how to approach it other than to ignore it. So I guess that's what I'll do.
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,371
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #49156
18 y
1,614
This is a reply to # 195,753Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
A million pardons for posting a link about the toxins in imported herbs. My point? I thought maybe a few people might want to know that over 90% of all herbs used in products today come from imported herbs, and all imported herbs are not only sprayed with pesticides and/or gassed/irradiated on the customs dock, but also are grown in countries where there are ZERO organic standards of ANY kind.
As far as MH goes, he's already been QUITE clear on the issue. What he can grow, he grows. What he cannot grow, he refuses to tell where he gets.
I have purchased tooth powder from MH in the past; it contains cloves. Cloves is the one herb he mentioned that he purchases, but wouldn't say from where (but will say he doesn't believe in 'organics'). So I threw it away, as I will not willingly put chemical toxins if I can help it.
I made no mention of MH in my post.
My "genius" search parameters? Yes, I am very good at using the Internet as a source for information. I was hoping that the information would help someone avoid becoming ill by choosing herbs from imported countries (hundreds of people with neurological illness have worsened when taking herbs from other countries because DDT is a neuro-toxin and hundreds/thousands of people have been infected with eColi and other bacteria).
You're certainly reading a LOT into a one link-line post.
- Edited #25274
18 y
1,294
This is a reply to # 195,793
What is it you want us to say?
We know lots of herb sources are not kosjer
Most of us also believe and trust that MH uses the
best of what is available: so many testimonials
about his products here
http://curezone.com/forums/fs150.asp?f=626
Its the more recent people that came to this
board who question all over again,
understandable,but please,do some searches
first
http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=566
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,448
This is a reply to # 195,793Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
>>"I thought maybe a few people might want to know that over 90% of all herbs used in products today come from imported herbs"
I think it’s great and quite helpful to post that. However, I didn't see the relevance to my thread. I guess I can see it some now, but it would have been nice to read some further clarification, as you have a tendency to be very descriptive and lengthy in your posts, and I was disappointed you didn't make the effort for me. ;-) In fact, your writing style reminds me of someone. Could you be the great unyquity?
>>"As far as MH goes, he's already been QUITE clear on the issue. What he can grow, he grows. What he cannot grow, he refuses to tell where he gets."
Not entirely true. He’s revealed where he gets his olive leaf and a few other herbs that he fills gaps with. There are plenty of herb sources in the US that are "chemical free," and some that are gathered from the wild or produced by wild growers who don't have the official stamp. Because they don't have the official stamp, people like you will throw it away or make a fuss. Why did you pitch the Tooth powder? You could have sent it back for your money back. No questions asked.
Perhaps your approach in getting this information is wrong? MH is human too. He has pride and feelings, and maybe your aggressive style doesn't mesh with him? There's also the trust issue, which I personally believe is at work here. If you've read the forum for any length of time, you'd know the dangers in selling herbs. He’s been burned many times. I know for a fact, the more he trusts you, the more info he would give you. He doesn't know you from jack, an in a public internet forum, I'd be very weary giving out all the information. You want all the specific details? Have some courage! Pick up the phone, introduce yourself and ask! But now, if he reads this, I doubt he'd ever sell you anything again. I wouldn't.
>>"I made no mention of MH in my post."
No, but it is quite clear nearly all of your "anonymous" posts have to do with MH and his herb sources, so a million pardons for assuming there was a connection. Why so defensive? And why the feeble effort for anonymity? Sorry, you can check the number, but who you really are is hard to hide from.
PB
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #49156
18 y
1,668
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Organic Herbal Detox Kit
9 Days complete detox. 40% off with coupon ’40off123’
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 195,831Sigh. I'm just not doing this right at all :( I should have just "kept my fingers shut" until I learned and understood more about the 'personality' of this forum. I really do mean well.
The reason I have for posting on different forums/differt topics under different ID's is governed by a personal/health/family issue (an online nightmare), which has nothing at all to do with Curezone. So, I'd really appreciate it very much if you'd leave the userID/# references out of any thread/titles.
PBuddy, I saw the thread "Organic Debate", read a couple of posts, and thought maybe I could "jump in the thread", and offer a link that was something I knew a lot about (and a lot of people don't), and start up a good discussion. My "read 'em & weep" title was because everytime I read about how toxic and ineffective herbal products are, I "weep". I guess maybe that sounded kind of abrasive or accusatory.
I really do appreciate what you're saying about MH; to understand my response/attitude to the questions about organics and the sources of product, you'd have to know several long stories, but I'll shorten then all together real-quick-like (because I really want you/everybody to understand). In the last six months I've had 3 people come to me for advice with natural health issues (amongst others), and if you combine their issues, it turns out that their oh-so-friendly/trusted local naturopath/herbalist/healthfoodstore owner was "taking them" conglomerately for over $3500 per month, for not only product they didn't need at ALL, but also for product that was typical healthfood store crap. (This one gal was taking 4 horse-size "premium echinacea" capsules, twice a day...and she called me and had an obnoxious cold...and she was ready to "throw all this natural sh*t people keep preachin' right in the garbage!" :( The healthfood store owner had absolutely NO IDEA (or so he claimed when I spoke with him) that 75-90% of his products were most likely, toxic, ineffective, and potentially dangerous (especially to lil' uns).
Anyway, so, when MH seemed to be evading my questions, and indicated "organic" was a waste of money and I must fall into a 'certain uneducated whacky group' of naturlists, I decided to get the answers to the questions I was asking, no matter what. And since MH seemed to always "call 'em as he see's 'em"; I thought that I'd do the same. It's not MH's fault, or yours, or anybody elses that I've "had it up to HERE!" with teachers/owners/herbalists/naturopaths scamming people and risking their health AND belief in natural health and healing. And I apologize to those I may have offended for that. But jeez-loueez (shaking head and smiling), don'tcha think if the man would have just simply said something like..."I don't buy certified organics because I have plenty of local sources for everything I need, and those sources meet or exceed anything the government could ever certify; and/or - I can't grow all my own herbs, but what I do purchase, I purchase from the best/most pure sources I can find"??!!...the first time I asked the questions, that just maybe I wouldn't have been quite so demanding or accusatory toward his evasive answers? After all, I AM human, too.
This forum really does 'beat to it's own drum', and it's obvious I certainly haven't caught onto the rhythm yet. So, if you don't mind, I think I'll just hang/lurk around awhile, and not jump in unless I'm sure what I have to offer is something that adds something positive :) Again, my apologies to anyone I offended. I really did/do have good intentions, but I'm thinking I really did kinda mess up somehow.
Peace (I hope :) Let's get back to the business of helping sick/clueless people!- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,551
This is a reply to # 195,853Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
No problem. I completely understand.
I consider you (in all your forms of ID) one of the best posters on here so the "great uniquity" reference has a glimmer of admiration from me :-). I like to debate you because that's one of the best ways to learn, so unfortunately I've probably come across mean. Sorry if it hurt your feelings in any way. I'm really just after what is true and right. If I disagree with you, it doesn't mean you're wrong, it’s just I don't currently see the logic.
You are absolutely correct. There are many many health food stores and suppliers who are commercially driven on marketing hype, thus preying on the sick, and whose products are empty in regards to potency, yet pumped full of toxic substances under the disguise of sterility. In order to be commercial you unfortunately have to play the government game. MH calls this the mason gig, but quite honestly I'm not one for conspiracies. At least I haven't been convinced of such yet.
I also get where you're coming from and agree MH didn't do a good job answering the first time. In fact, quite often he gives vague answers for many things on this forum. Sometimes I think this is his way. Other times, I think he's rushing, and yet other times I think he's being deliberately vague, and probably for good reason.
I've dealt with him on personal level off curezone and he's a pretty sincere guy as well as very generous. He has quite a knack for finding good suppliers, has many connections, and as you know, quite the relationship with Amish growers. Many of his suppliers seem to be off the record, somewhat recluse, and pretty much “off line”. Probably how he and they like it.
Attention from Big Bro is avoided like the plague. To him, worrying about that govt approved organic stamp is a waste of his time, and I think part of why he answered you poorly is because he really doesn’t want to sell or prove to you anything. Sure, there's no way to know 100% if his stuff is perfectly pure, (even he probably can't) but I guess you just have to develop an instinct about people who are not mainstream, and choose to trust or not. Otherwise, who are we going to trust evaluating? The government?
I understand your concerns and they are very legitimate, but you can only do the best you can. Ultimately people need to become educated and become their own suppliers/growers if possible. MH probably won't sell to the public forever. He is a big proponent of people making and finding their own stuff, so if he were truly the profiteer scam artist some make him out to be, why would he encourage this so often? To be honest, MH isn't a very good business man so it always makes me laugh when some come here to accuse him of being the "profiting herbalist". For one there are at least 3 or 4 outfits who sell his stuff and make far more, and two, he does not utilize (perhaps by choice?) the many zealous ways to promote and sell.
Honestly, I really do believe he is just a family man who has a hobby, who works in factory, uses that hobby to fund itself, and maybe pick up some extra dough. Maybe I’m gullible? That’s always possible, but that’s just what my instincts are telling me now. I do the best I can and learn as I go.
So I hope you will continue to post and lurk. MH’s core beliefs are nothing original. They are one of simplicity – Diet, distilled water, parasite-free, and stone-free. Health and cures are within oneself, and herbs are only aids. I don’t know if you’ve read Dr Christopher’s Books or Dr Hay’s books, but if you have, you’d know 95% where MH and this board’s rhythm and philosophy comes from.
Best, PB
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #49156
18 y
1,595
This is a reply to # 195,857Thanks for your fantastic note! I'll be getting back to posting as soon as I get caught up on some of my work (we're self-employed and WAY behind).
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #49156
18 y
1,595
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,551
- Re: Care to enlighten? #48222
18 y
1,324
This is a reply to # 195,831"No, but it is quite clear nearly all of your "anonymous" posts have to do with MH and his herb sources, so a million pardons for assuming there was a connection. Why so defensive? And why the feeble effort for anonymity? Sorry, you can check the number, but who you really are is hard to hide from."
Please excuse my ignorance, but who might this be?- Re: Care to enlighten? #69242
18 y
1,278
This is a reply to # 195,878I'm sorry but I doubt I would do very well "enlightening" you. Can I ask why you're interested???
Best,
PB- Re: Care to enlighten? #48222
18 y
1,281
This is a reply to # 195,891I am curious for two reasons: The first being that many CureZonians seem to post under an assumed name as well as an anonymous name and I find this rather disgusting to say the least. The second reason is that my paranoia suggested to me that you thought the anonymous user may be me...ridiculous I know, but I do not yet have my paranoid suspicions under full control.
I am aware that moderators can trace IP addresses, so anyone who posts using more than one user name will be unveiled eventually.- Re: Care to enlighten? #69242
18 y
1,240
- Re: Care to enlighten? #69242
18 y
1,240
- Re: Care to enlighten? #48222
18 y
1,281
- Re: Care to enlighten? #69242
18 y
1,278
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #49156
18 y
1,668
- Edited #25274
18 y
1,294
- Edited #25274
18 y
1,280
- Re: Read 'em and weep :( Re: Organic... #69242
18 y
1,280
- Re: Organic Debate trapper/kcmo
18 y
1,389
fetched in 0.0430 sec, IP =216.73.216.112, y=1