My question is:
-one of my pathogenic strains is Citrobacter, which thrives on FOS. The vinegar contains FOS, which is vital for the good flora to prosper....
I don't see FOS listed on either product to begin with. And there is no reason to add FOS to the vinegar.
but it also would be great fuel for the Citrobacter (and possibly the other strains). If I use the vinegar, would I be doing more harm than good?
Again, I do not see FOS as an ingredient anywhere. And any naturally occurring FOS would have been destroyed in the fermentation. Even if it were present though I would not worry about it. As I mentioned before the FOS would be fed on primarily by the beneficial flora that would suppress the other bacteria as they grow.
Also, do the Aminos contain FOS?
There is no reason to add FOS to amino acid supplements.
How do the Aminos support good bacteria?
They don't. The flora are fed by fibers and some fats. The only close association would be that some amino acids can help with the gut membrane. But then again the amino acids compete for absorption. So taking them all together, especially with a meal, will prevent some amino acids from being properly absorbed.
I need to support the good guys, but I don't want to give the bad dudes any more fuel than they already have. Any opinion?
Building up the good flora will suppress the bad bacteria. As the flora grow they produce acids, peroxides and bactericides that kill bad bacteria. The good bacteria also compete for the available food and space. The beneficial flora will win out if fed as they get rid of their competition as they grow. So it really does not matter if the bad guys get a little food, which is going to happen regardless. This is why they are still alive despite not being fed things like FOS. But again as the good flora are fed they will destroy their competition and increase in numbers crowding out pathogens as well.
Another queston: I've been experiencing massive cramps, gas, bloating all day long for several days. Is this die-off? I haven't really changed anything, except I changed to a more potent probiotic (but it is grown on dairy/soy)...so am I reacting or is this die-off? It's really uncomfy.
Most likely it is the lactose from the dairy component of the probiotic.
Lastly, I discovered I'm very sensitive to phenols/thiols/sulfur...most likely due to the mercury toxins (many people have issues with phenols if Hg toxic). Any advice on this? I'm bummed b/c garlic is such a good thing to eat, as well as tumeric and eggs...but they really bother me.
I don't think you really want to get me started on the mercury issue, which I think is EXTREMELY over hyped. And between the phenols, thiols and sulfur you pretty much have nothing to eat since these are common compounds in food. As far as why you are sensitive to those things this could simple be allergies. Sulfur compounds are found in most foods, so if it were the sulfur compounds you were reacting to then you would have issues with virtually all foods.
I think it was the probiotic I was using. I switched to ReNew Life Ultimate Flora Critical Colon 80 billion CFU, 14 strains (took one in AM and one in PM).
I did not take one this AM, and so far, I am not experiencing the massive gas, cramps, brain fog, sore joints, etc that I had when I usually take it in the AM. I instead took my usual Klaire lab's 12 strain 25 billion CFU (after breakfast and lunch). So far, no issues.
Should I completely STOP the ReNew Life...or just take it in the evening?
I recommend still taking it. Some probiotics is better than no probiotics.
It did seem to help my acne alot... the Klaire Labs probiotic made my acne worse, but I did not experience ANY GI complaints with the Klaire Labs product.
Muscle testing showed that the ReNew Life product tested fine for me...it was confirmed via frequency testing too (it tested better than the Klaire Lab).
Is it possible that I was just taking too much of the ReNew Life (I was taking a total of 160 billion CFUs...I'm a very tiny person, so maybe it was too much for my size and/or causing too extreme of a die-off)?
Again CFU levels are frequently exaggerated. And it is not likely die off since there is only small amounts of bacteria in supplements like that , and many of the bacteria will not survive to reach the intestines. So it is more likely a sensitivity to something combined with the probiotic.
I'm thinking perhaps to take 2 Klaire Labs in the AM (total of 50 billion CFUs, 12 strains) and 1 ReNew Life in the PM (80 billion CFUs, 14 strains).
The ReNew Life IS grown on dairy/soy....the Klaire Labs is NOT. Could that be a reason for my symptoms?
Yes. Again it is more likely something in the probiotics other than the bacteria.
I called the company and they said that they haven't had any complaints about people reacting to the dairy/soy medium upon which the bacteria are grown, for these elements are usually consumed by the bacteria...but perhaps it's enough to cause ME sensitivities?
Both are common allergens.
Any advice or thoughts?
Keep up with the probiotics you can tolerate. If you cannot tolerate soy or dairy I recommend looking in to water kefir as well.
Is it a possibility that taking pill-forms of probiotics can contribute to SIBO?
There is no reason they should. But if they have a lactose or similar base they could pose problems for some people, including excess gas formation.
The fermented foods don't have this ability, but it is suspected that the pills do:
Quote from the SCD:
"Elaine said that bifidus was one of those strains that tended to overgrow in an already unbalanced gut and that's why it's not allowed on SCD."
That makes no sense at all. The Bifidobacterium, including Bifidobacterium bifidus, are BENEFICIAL bacteria. Like the Acidophilus species Bifidobacterium help to control pathogenic species of bacteria and fungal Candida in the intestines.
They are also overlooking the fact that Bifidobacterium bifidus can be found in some cultured foods.
I know u don't subscribe to any diets, but I need to.
What is your view on these diets:
-Specific Carbohydrate Diet (I would not be able to tolerate the fruits/honey, but that is ok. I also would have to do dairy-free yogurt)
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/
http://pecanbread.com/p/index.html
http://gapsguide.com/2008/12/05/differences-between-scd-gaps/
This diet is based on a lot of faulty science.
-GAPS (Promotes more fermented foods)
http://gaps.me/preview/?page_id=20
http://gapsguide.com/book/
http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/gaps-diet/
This is a healthier diet than the the other two.
-Bee Wilder
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/intro2.php
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/intro1.php
This site is so full of misinformation it is ridiculous!!! I see a lot of it is based on the misinformation promoted by the Weston Price Foundation, whose misinformation I have addressed in previous posts. But their explanation of what causes candidiasis and their claims about viruses are total myths.
Please help me logically pick the best one. And please don't tell me neither of them. This is important to me.
Diet is the most vital part of healing, restoring balance, and overall health.
If I had to choose between these three I would go with the GAPS diet, which makes the most sense and is the least restrictive. There are a few things in their choices of what not to eat that I disagree with, but it is still the best diet of the three.
I agree... Bee's diet is ridiculous. I'd love to hear your views on the things u disagree with.... in fact, I'd love to see you and Bee go head-to-head in a debate! You'd totally take her down, Hv! :-D I have not seen you say anything about WAPF... what don't u agree with about WAPF?
Most of what I have posted on the Weston Price Foundation has been on the anti-soy propaganda they have pushed. Here are some of the posts:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1547245#i
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1547490#i
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1548041#i
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1548163
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1861241#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1542308#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1660803#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1530386#i
As you can see in my opinion the Weston Price Foundation IS NOT in any way a credible source of information. Their agenda is to support their financial backers, who are the beef and dairy industries. And I feel this is why they have spread so much anti-soy, anti-fiber and anti-silica propaganda.
Why do u say that SCD is based on a lot of "faulty science?" It has been around the longest and is scientifically proven. Plus, GAPS is based off of SCD. COuld u elaborate?
I am not going to go in to a detailed explanation as it takes way to long. In short though they are not differentiating between the smaller polysaccharides like starches and the more complex polysaccharides like cellulose. The more complex polysaccharides are needed to feed the intestinal flora. They don't differentiate between the good and bad bacteria in the intestines either, and completely miss the mark when they claim the acids formed damage the intestinal lining. The acidity is what helps protect us from pathogens and increases nutrient absorption. And they fail to realize that Bifidobacterium are also essential flora. Basically they are twisting the facts to their needs. This is far from "scientifically proven".
And I see very little in common between SCD and GAPS. SCD is very strict and would not allow most of the foods in the GAPS diet due to the presence of disaccharides and polysaccharides as well as Bifidobacterium that the SCD is against.
What about GAPS don't u agree with and what DO u like about it?
The main things I did not like was their section on toxins such as acetylaldehyde since they fail to take in to account how these things are metabolized in the body. So they are not telling the whole story. And I think they rely to heavily on juices without the fiber when the fiber should not be removed. In fact they should be increasing fiber to help the flora. It does not make sense to take cultured foods for the bacteria then starve the bacteria removing the fiber. And the fiber slows the absorption of sugar, which would be very important in cases such as diabetes.
What I like about it is that at least it is less restrictive than the other diets. But there are still other flaws such as where they recommend raw vegetables such as cabbage that are goitrogenic. Again, this is why I find these strict diets ridiculous. There is NO one size fits all diet, and all strict diets have their issues.
I do sort of agree with the anti-soy stuff. I ate soy for YEARS when I was vegan and it damaged my thyroid
Are you aware of how many things can suppress the thyroid? For example, flax seed that is a major goitrogen. Problem is that people read the bogus anti-soy propaganda and therefore automatically assume the soy must have been the cause. Since nearly all soy is fermented and/or cooked, both of which destroy the goitrogenic activity in foods, soy really is not as big of a factor in hypothyroidism as the anti-soy proponents have made it out to be.
AND I became intolerant to it. It's hard to find a non-GMO soy.
People can develop an intolerance to most anything. This really is not a soy issue. And as much as I don't like the idea of GMO either I can still think of plenty of things in our food supply that I would worry about a lot more than GMO such as the lead in wine, the mercury and PCBs in fish, the antibiotics, hormones, heavy metals, etc. in various animal food sources...........
I am also confused as to why SCD despises Bifidus. Here is an article I found on why:
This is where GAPS and SCD really seem to differ:
http://gapsfacts.com/bifidus.html
Also, some quotes from SCD'ers:
-"inclusion of bifidus can result in overgrowth, when not kept in check by optimal composition of strains, thus it is best to avoid for now"
-"the bifidus itself becomes the overgrowth, and I think that is why Elaine was suggesting its removal from the diet. The articles all point to bifidus as being an aggressive microbe, and that without the proper balance of various strains, it can become the SIBO. A 'healthy' gut it said to contain 300-500 strains, and up to 1,000 trillion ( 1 quadrillion) living microbial cells. Antibiotics can off set that, as can other pharmaceuticals, chemicals, foods, food poisoning, possibly genetics and auto-immune diseases, and other life situations. So achieving balance, can be difficult to achieve, to recognize, or even to maintain. Also, bifidus is definitely not the only aggressive strain. Further, as you probably know, SCD actually helps to control some strains of microbes by simply starving them out. And some foods can kill bad strains, ie: coconut kills candida albicans. Again, I believe that is why they are suggesting staying clear of that more aggressive strain.
I addressed a lot of this in the other response I did of how they have read way too much in to Petri dish studies to come to their conclusions, which is ridiculous.
But here is another great point. Which of the numerous Bifidus strains is the "aggressive strain"? Is this a normal strain found in the human body? If not, is this strain what they were referring to in the Petri dish studies they are relying on?
I personally drink cultured beverages including kombucha & water-kefir (among others) to increase the amount of microbial strains going into my body. These two combined offer me close to 80 different strains. These different strains do much to help me achieve balance. Plus, any raw fruit or veggie also automatically comes with its own set of microbes, so I include lots of that, and simply for the microbes, and the fiber that feeds them." [This person contradicts herself b/c kombucha and kefir are not legal on SCD....and these drinks contain bifidus!]
This is another reason I think these strict diets are ridiculous. The people who design these simply see what they want to see to fit their arguments for their diets while ignoring the contradictions.
Do u feel that SCD needs to be "updated," since the founder died a few years ago and scientific studies have advanced since then regarding probiotics? Perhaps that is why GAPS was put into practice...it took the good from SCD, but updated it to include "the latest findings?"
They could try to update it, but who is going to decide what should be included and deleted? People get stuck in their belief systems, such as we have seen time and time again with the anti-soy proponents and the "liver flush" supporters. No matter how much evidence that gets presented to them they refuse to give up their old outdated and disproven belief systems.
And, I find it hard to believe that honey and fruit would not feed candida and pathogens. Those simple sugars are instant fuel for them. pathogens would rather use "easy/quick" fuel than to have to expend the energy to break down complex carbs.
Honey contains a lot of sucrose, no different from table sugar other that the fact it is in a liquid state. This and the other sugars in honey would definitely feed Candida. Same for fruit. Have these people ever heard of honey and fruits being fermented by yeasts in to alcohols?!!! Again, this is why I don't follow these ridiculous diets. Too often they are full of wild, unsubstantiated claims.
SCD does allow lots of veggies, which contains fibers to feed the good flora.
Including Bifidus strains. So another contradiction on their part.
They also allow almond flour
And again, what about the sugar content?:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/90491-nutrition-information-almond-flour/
"A serving of almond flour contains 6 g of carbohydrates and 1 g of sugars. White wheat flour, on the other hand, has about 24 g of carbohydrates and no sugars."
and coconut flour
Again what about the sugar content if they are worried about Candida?
and such. Brans are not the only foods that feed flora.
Most of the foods in GAPS are cooked...I have yet to see anything that recommends lots of raw foods, unless the person is very advanced into the diet.
Is tofu fermented?
Some tofu products are, but not all.
I know miso and tempeh is. I didn't know flax was anti-thyroid.
A lot of people don't. Then again, most people don't bother to research things like this. For example, Mercola also bashes soy with the same disproven anti-soy propaganda such as the goitrogenic activity. But he claims that flax seed is a "healthy" food even though it is nearly 4 times more goitrogenic than raw, unfermented soy. When compared to fermented and/or cooked soy the goitrogenic activity of flax seed increases significantly more. But again, people would rather jump on the anti-soy propaganda bandwagon and bash soy rather than to put forth any real effort to research the real facts before repeating the propaganda.
I don't eat raw cruciferous veggies, so I'm ok in that area.
I agree with u on the honey and fruit issue. That always stood out to me. Most people on SCD and GAPS are on a modified version of it to exclude these sugary foods....sounds like an anti-candida diet to me (but with fermented foods).
I also agree that a lot of what they say is conflicting with their other theories. Thus, an anti-candida diet makes more sense...but one that is individualized to each person. I feel that diet is EXTREMELY vital, but without getting rid of the infections/toxins, nothing will change. Also, normalizing gut flora is vital, too!
A lot of infections can be eliminated simply by increasing the good flora in the intestines. But again it depends a lot on the infection as well, which is why it is important to know what the infections are.
However, since cutting out grains, my gut has felt a LOT better. BMs still are very abnormal, but that won't clear up until the infections are erradicated. GF diet did not help...my gut is too damaged and inflammed to handle grains.
Licorice root and yucca root powders are both great for reducing intestinal inflammation and for helping to build up the flora.
However, I seem to do ok with brown rice protein powder. I make sure to eat lots of veggies and I drink homemade veg juice. I also include more fats into my diet, for fats are healing, helps with hormones and cell membrane repair, etc (VCO, skins, natural fats found normally in foods). I'm trying to eat as "natural" as possible, save for the rice protein powder. I also eat almond butter and eggs. Is this healthy, Hv?
Juices can be if they still contain the fiber. And fats are healthy as long as they are good fats. Not all fats are beneficial.
Here is my new diet change:
Meal 1/pre-workout
-4-6oz veg juice with 1 TB sauerkraut
1 TB coconut butter + 1 TB almond butter + 2.5 TB rice protein powder (add some water to make it into a "pudding")
Meal 2
Stir-fry: 3oz white meat poultry (chicken or turkey) + 3oz avo/pea non-bean "hummus" + steamed veggies + 1 TB VCO + spices and sea salt and 2 TB sauerkraut
You have to be careful with the spices when taking probiotic sources. Many spices can kill the flora in direct contact.
Meal 3
-4-6 oz veg juice
2-3 jumbo eggs, some veggie pulp added to the eggs left over from juicing, spices, sea salt (maybe some kraut) + 1/2-1 TB VCO
Meal 4:
sauted veggies with 1/2-1 TB VCO and maybe some chicken fat, 5-6 oz chicken thighs (with or without skin), spices, maybe kraut
Meal 5 (if I'm hungry)
-repeat of meal one, but probably no juice, just the "pudding"...or 1-2 soft-boiled eggs
How is this? is it healthy?
2-3 jumbo eggs
The eggs are fine if cooked, and the rest is fine with the few minor changes I mentioned.
The spices I use are cayenne, black pepper, cilantro, kelp, and sea salt. Are these ok?
I would not advise taking the cayenne, black pepper or cilantro at the same time as the probiotics.
My veg juice does have some fiber/pulp left in it.
I soft-boil my eggs (yolk a tad runny).
I think my probiotic is causing me issues...I need to switch.
Do u have any non-dairy homemade yogurt recipes with nut milk?
Here are some links:
http://www.pecanbread.com/recipes/almondyogurt.html
http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2010/04/07/how-to-make-almond-milk-yogurt/
Regarding the diet I sent u, how do u suggest I add in the yucca and licorise roots?
Mixing the herbs in a ratio of 2 parts licorice root to one part of yucca root. Then I recommend a 1/2 teaspoon of the mix 3 times daily at least 20 minutes before meals. I put powders under my tongue, take a mouth full of water, swish and swallow. Or it can be blended in a little apple sauce or juice.