That has been my experience for the last month and a half I have been drinking 2 glasse of kefir a day. In the beginning it was fine but after the 2nd. week this started happening. (NOTE: I eat a high carb diet - mainly fruits and vegetables and greens, and eventually some "good" eggs). I usually drink 12 hour second brews. And usually drink the first glass one hour after breakfast (usualy one or two cantaloupes, depending on the size) and the second one 30 minutes after dinner (usually another big portion of fruit and greens).
I found interesting answers for this on the net:
Do these make sense to you? Any other good explanations?
Or is it just herxheimer´s effect and I should hang on until it clears? If so, for how long?
Or, if it is actually fermanetation due to the sugars in my fruit meal, should I take it before eating or even going down on the amount?
Anybody with a similar experience that got over it by not stopping to drink it?
Thank you!
That has been my experience for the last month and a half I have been drinking 2 glasse of kefir a day. In the beginning it was fine but after the 2nd. week this started happening. (NOTE: I eat a high carb diet - mainly fruits and vegetables and greens, and eventually some "good" eggs). I usually drink 12 hour second brews. And usually drink the first glass one hour after breakfast (usualy one or two cantaloupes, depending on the size) and the second one 30 minutes after dinner (usually another big portion of fruit and greens).
Weight gain can simply be from the high calorie content of the milk. Keep in mind that animal milks are produced in large part to increase weight of baby animals quickly. It is not a "diet" food by any means.
I found interesting answers for this on the net:
They are right to an extent. Yes, the bacteria feed on fibers. More precisely they ferment the fibers to break down the long chain sugar molecules in to simpler sugars they can feed on. During the fermentation process gasses are produced.
But kefir is best taken on an empty stomach, not with food. Spices and other compounds in foods and drinks could kill the bacteria, as well as the acid increase during digestion.
2. i’ve been drinking kefir smoothies for breakfast every day since i got my grains a few months ago!
For bloating/gas: try taking an enzyme to help digest the proteins and fats in the kefir. My doctor has me taking chewable papaya enzymes with every meal–even if i just have the kefir. it helps a lot. i used to get sharp pains in my abdomen from gas and i don’t get those any more since taking the enzyme. (There are other types of digestive enzymes out there too–papaya might not be the best one for you!) on the other hand, some peoples’ bodies just cannot accept the kefir because some bodies are very sensitive to fermented things. so if your body doesn’t respond well to wine and beer, it may not respond well to the kefir either. Kefir is very nutritious…but you need to decide if the health benefits outweigh the risks for YOUR body.
Enzymes can digest the bacteria, so they kind of defeat the purpose. Although chewable papaya actually has very little enzyme in it. Green papaya is high in enzymes, but the levels drop drastically with ripening.
3. Do NOT use it if you have any condition that might reduce your immune function. (I have Hep C)
Do these make sense to you? Any other good explanations?
#3 makes absolutely no sense at all. The flora make up about 80% of the immune system, so it only makes sense to maintain the flora in cases of immune suppression. Otherwise you would only be suppressing the immune system further, which is not good at all.
Or is it just herxheimer´s effect and I should hang on until it clears? If so, for how long?
I still think it is the high calorie content causing the weight gain. You can try water kefir instead, which has a lot less calories. As for the bloating taking it well before meals should cut way down on the bloating.
Or, if it is actually fermanetation due to the sugars in my fruit meal, should I take it before eating or even going down on the amount?
Yes.
Anybody with a similar experience that got over it by not stopping to drink it?
Now I think I know why you were away for more than usual here in your forum. Having to spend so much time fencing with Tony Isaacs must be a drag!!!
It has been a lot more than simply dealing with Tony. There is a lot of stuff going on right now that I have been trying to deal with so I have been spending less time on CZ anyway.
But I was amazed that you did, and must admit that my regard for you increased while reading the debate! BRAVO!
Thanks. I have this thing about people playing games. It really pisses me off and makes me dig in even more. it is like when my ex-business partner started his "games" with me. It backfired on him big time. I ended up filing 148 criminal charges against him so he fled the country for 7 years. Then I filed a lawsuit against him and spent the next 3 1/2 years beating up his attorneys. I got rid of his attorneys one by one and he was on his 5th attorney when I won the case. And it is not necessarily over yet. I have been seriously considering taking both him and his mom in to Federal Court for some related fraud issues. But the more he decided to drag things out to get me to give up and to play lying games I just dug in my heels even more. He probably spent more on attorneys than what the judgment came out to.
In my opinion Tony is a lower life form than my ex-business partner not only because of his constant lies and blame games, but also for the comment he made about a well respected poster here. Rational people simply do not use someone's disorder to cut them down.
Although, if I may say, and please don´t take me wrong for it, I suggest you do not let him get to you. Just breath, relax, laugh and THEN answer. I could "feel" the speed of your typing (some mistakes you do not usually make) because of your indignation (which was absolutely comprehensible).
It was more than typing fast. It was also a severe lack of sleep. Luckily I have a chance to catch up a little over the last couple of days.
The hotter you got, the cooler he went. That´s his game with people yes!
Yes, he does love the tactic of inciting people as much as he can then trying to play Mr. Nice Guy so the other person looks like the aggressor. Then he blames the other person for starting what he started and gets his followers to back him despite the evidence to the contrary being presented. But the worst part was when he was sending PMs to people to recruit them in to attacking me as well on the board. I still think the Webmaster should have banned him for such a tactic, or at least removed him as the moderator for the Cancer Support Forum. I even filed a complaint with the Webmaster days ago about being banned from the Webmaster Forum even though Tony was never banned as one of the biggest TOS violators on CZ, and about his other antics on the Cancer Support Forum and Cancer Debate Forum. And as usual the Webmaster has not responded to my PM.
Funny thing though is that the more he attacks and plays games the more I expose the fact that the evidence shows oleander does not really work for cancer according to the only human study that has been presented. So he is hurting his own credibility big time.
So try and outgame him in his own game by just using the more facts you can and the knowledge you have and he doesn´t. Make technical questions and let him expose himself through his superficial answers. He cannot go deep into matters, he knows many things, but quite superficially, as do all good charlatans...so that´s where you can really expose him and get HIM to be hot!
A big part of his game is also to stir debate when I expose oleander (Sutherlandia OPC, Anvirzel) as ineffective according to the human, not petri dish study, so that if I fight back he has a valid excuse to hide the post or the thread, or to move it to the debate forums where less people will see that it does not work as claimed.
A big part of his game is also to stir debate when I expose oleander (Sutherlandia OPC, Anvirzel) as ineffective according to the human, not petri dish study, so that if I fight back he has a valid excuse to hide the post or the thread, or to move it to the debate forums where less people will see that it does not work as claimed.
That´s exactly why I say: don´t fight back with anything BUT questions and facts, go only for the technicals. DON´T call his games at all, play the "dumb" nerdy curious in the matter and ignore completely his baits for debate/trouble. His narcisism will not stand for your completely ignoring his provocations (you know them quite well by now) but at the same time he will have no reason AT ALL do move the posts. He will be the one getting really hot. I know it is hard to change certain ways of acting, but this will surely bring results. Try and see...and beware for the temptation to call his games....play dumb dumb dumb!
Also, it is time you get credit and get well known for your contributions. The YouTube videos were a good step in that direction! But it would be wonderful if you just posted here (or allowed me to do it) in search of someone from your subscribers with web design knowledge and some one with time and willing to go over your message board and distill the precious information there into different documents (maybe MamaCat?). With that in hand we could redress your website anew with your photo, bio, etc and a data base of articles and a shopping car, etc. I can even volunteer as soon as I finish my retreat in may. It seems that you are quite one handed now in your business but it can and will grow! Just my 2 cents...
Also, it is time you get credit and get well known for your contributions. The YouTube videos were a good step in that direction! But it would be wonderful if you just posted here (or allowed me to do it) in search of someone from your subscribers with web design knowledge and some one with time and willing to go over your message board and distill the precious information there into different documents (maybe MamaCat?). With that in hand we could redress your website anew with your photo, bio, etc and a data base of articles and a shopping car, etc. I can even volunteer as soon as I finish my retreat in may. It seems that you are quite one handed now in your business but it can and will grow! Just my 2 cents...
I have been considering looking in to a different message board format than we have as well where we would have different topic headings similar to here to make things easier to find and to encourage discussion without all the politics of Curezone. Especially when I came here to help people and I am not allowed to simply because a few people here given power they should not have feel that they have the right to censor what I say or have the right to attack me relentlessly to run me off. Well if the Webmaster refuses to do anything about this again then they win as I am ready to walk. There are plenty of other health forums out there, including my own, that are really about healing and not simply about revenue generation that would love to have real health and healing information.
It is like I have said several times in the past. The concept of CZ is great. How it is run is not. Again the focus should be on healing, not controversy to increase revenue generation.
As for our website that is being redesigned and we are adding a shopping cart. But that will probably not be put up until the capsules arrive. That has been delayed due to problems with getting the formulas to fit in the size capsules we want. But that has been corrected in all but two formulas, which I am working on tonight. So hopefully not to much longer.
I've spent over a year now consuming, experimenting with and studying kefir and its effects on my health. Keep in mind these are just my thoughts as they have related to me, so your mileage may vary...
They are right to an extent. Yes, the bacteria feed on fibers. More precisely they ferment the fibers to break down the long chain sugar molecules in to simpler sugars they can feed on. During the fermentation process gasses are produced.
But kefir is best taken on an empty stomach, not with food. Spices and other compounds in foods and drinks could kill the bacteria, as well as the acid increase during digestion.
Agree that kefir can produce gas in the presence of excess carbohydrates, however this seems to be more prevalent when carbohydrates are consumed without any fiber. It is my opinion that regardless of whether kefir is consumed with carbs, if the bowel is moving on a regular basis (from whole food/higher fiber intake) then fermentation that takes place in the gut is minimized. I regularly use homemade, double fermented kefir in whole food smoothies that generally include raspberries, avocado, banana, leafy greens and sprouts and do not experience any digestive discomfort. I would hesitate to combine kefir with straight fruit juice or high glycemic foods only.
2. i’ve been drinking kefir smoothies for breakfast every day since i got my grains a few months ago!
For bloating/gas: try taking an enzyme to help digest the proteins and fats in the kefir. My doctor has me taking chewable papaya enzymes with every meal–even if i just have the kefir. it helps a lot. i used to get sharp pains in my abdomen from gas and i don’t get those any more since taking the enzyme. (There are other types of digestive enzymes out there too–papaya might not be the best one for you!) on the other hand, some peoples’ bodies just cannot accept the kefir because some bodies are very sensitive to fermented things. so if your body doesn’t respond well to wine and beer, it may not respond well to the kefir either. Kefir is very nutritious…but you need to decide if the health benefits outweigh the risks for YOUR body.
Enzymes can digest the bacteria, so they kind of defeat the purpose. Although chewable papaya actually has very little enzyme in it. Green papaya is high in enzymes, but the levels drop drastically with ripening.
The bacteria in kefir are the ultimate enzyme supplement for digestion, so adding extra enzymes to combat what the kefir is doing doesn't make a lot of sense. When first starting kefir, it seems common among myself and my friends to experience a lot of gas. I attribute this to the fact that the kefir bacteria are establishing themselves, propagating, and eradicating "bad bacteria." If colonies of other kinds of bacteria are dying off (such as with Candida) this has been shown to produce excessive amounts of gas while the body is eliminating it. Some people seem to do better by starting slowly, with 1/2 cup a day and working up to a couple of cups. Within approximately 1-2 weeks symptoms of bloating/gass dissappeared for me. It is worth nothing that if I stop drinking kefir for longer than 1 week and then reintroduce it, such symtoms reoccur but are far more mild - something I attribute to the kefir colonies re-establishing themselves.
3. Do NOT use it if you have any condition that might reduce your immune function. (I have Hep C)
Do these make sense to you? Any other good explanations?
#3 makes absolutely no sense at all. The flora make up about 80% of the immune system, so it only makes sense to maintain the flora in cases of immune suppression. Otherwise you would only be suppressing the immune system further, which is not good at all.
I have Sjogren's with Lupus overlap, Fibro and Hashimoto's. I have lived with these diseases for 10 years. After drinking Kefir for over a year all symptoms of my diseases are gone, I am off all medication and my bloodwork shows normal levels of inflammation where a year ago my inflammation was so high it could not be measured. I drink 1-2 cups a day. Also, in all of that time I have weathered 3 separate flus in my family and I haven't been sick once, not even with a sniffle, despite the fact that a year ago I survived on daily OTC sinus medication and prescription anti-biotics for recurrent respiratory and sinus infections. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that kefir, coupled with a whole foods, high Raw diet has been crucial in healing my body.
In addition to healing my auto-immune issues, kefir has been instrumental in a few other ways too. I have healed a plantar wart in less than 3 weeks - it had existed for nearly a year before that and would not respond to other topical treatments. For ladies, kefir is an excellent home remedy for yeast infections, bringing immediate relief. I've also used it as a a facial wash. I also dilute it and use it in my garden.
Or is it just herxheimer´s effect and I should hang on until it clears? If so, for how long?
I still think it is the high calorie content causing the weight gain. You can try water kefir instead, which has a lot less calories. As for the bloating taking it well before meals should cut way down on the bloating.
Do you exercise? Do you have hormonal imbalance issues? What other foods are you eating? I would say 2 cups of whole milk kefir by itself would not cause weight gain unless there are other factors, such as eating too many high calorie, high glycemic other foods. I eat a high raw diet (85% raw) with whey protein, 2 cups of whole raw milk kefir daily, and probably 15-20 servings of fruit and vegetables. I try to choose fruits and veggies that are low-glycemic, high fiber and high fat. Eating all of this, I generally average around 1200-1500 calories a day and that is usually packing it in for me, and with little exercise I was able to lost about 40 pounds at the beginning of this diet. Depending on your activity level and caloric needs, you may consider reducing how much you consume outside of the vegetables and fruits and focusing on low-glycemic and non-starchy vegetables (stay away from potatoes, for example.)
Or, if it is actually fermanetation due to the sugars in my fruit meal, should I take it before eating or even going down on the amount?
Yes.
I tend to prefer drinking it on an empty stomach, but that's just because I like the taste. I've heard that kefir takes on average 45 minutes to digest, so if you are worried about fermentation from other foods you may consider factoring in digestion time to reduce that component. Again, starting off with a small amount seems to be helpful for easing into a daily dose.
Anybody with a similar experience that got over it by not stopping to drink it?