Does too much protein in the diet increase cancer risk?

 Hey Hv, I know I'm bugging you huh? That book I keep talking about was written for medical folks actually. That's why I really think you would enjoy it. It's PACKED with clinical studies, human and animal. Each page is loaded with science, methodologies, biology, physiology, enough to make me scream silently in my head. But for you? I really think this would float your boat...you would get every page, every sentence, and some of it might actually surprise you.

So that being said, I swear I'll shut and say no more my dear.

Maybe I will take a look at it when things slow down. Right now too much going on including trying hard to get my own book finished.

 "High protein raises insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), which in high levels can lead to cancer, bone disorders, joint disorders, etc."


my mother did the Atkins' thing for a time, and now suffers with bone and joint disorders--but likely did before, as well. I recall her at about 40 talking about her "old bones" when she asked me to go to the store, for example

There are several things that could have contributed here. Proteins not only raise IGF-1 but in high levels also block the absorption of calcium. And many people on the Atkin's diet were eating a lot of steak. Beef is rich in phosphorus, which in high levels leads to the secretion of parathyroid hormone, which leads to bone loss. And high protein diets also increase acidity of the blood, which can also lead to bone loss.


About "not ..tea, but water"

I have been drinking green tea chai lately,(last three months) about three or four glasses a day often, using the same tea so it gets diltuted--this is a 12 oz glass... and then having a few glasses water. But sometimes more tea. Fruit and big salads mainly, for food.

I'm feeling a bit stiff in the hands and fingers. Could be the humidity too--it gets humid here as soon as summer gets started. Don't eat too much protein. A little fish once a week or so. A little yogurt. Ocassionally some feta or organic cheddar. The rest is all plant-based.

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Can you speak more about how something like green tea, or the green chai (no milk) is different (+ less good)than water. I mean, I know water is the ideal solvent, but can you explain a little more on that tea, juice, water point.
or post some links to other discussions, if you have them at hand?

One issue with green tea and black teas are the oxalate content of the teas. Especially when taken with calcium sources such as the cheese you mentioned. Oxalates bind tightly with calcium forming insoluble calcium oxalate, which cannot be utilized by the body. It can cause kidney stones though. The caffeine in the tea is not only a diuretic, but it also raises uric acid levels that can lead to joint pain and kidney stones. And the tannins in tea bind various beneficial compounds in other herbs and can bind with medications making them worthless to the body. This is why it is best to take herbs away from teas, coffee and other high tannin sources.

 I haven't read "Good Calories, Bad calories" but I would suggest it also. It would fill the gap in your knowledge in this case.

Several people are thriving on meat only. In this case you might lookhttp://www.dirtycarnivore.com
forum. There are several studies under the scientific section.

I looked through the site and they are misinformed themselves. First of all the paleolithic diet contained a lot of plant material including seeds and roots.  I have been over all this before with other people and posted all sorts of evidence to prove this fact.

They also make mention that the compounds in plants such as alkaloids can evoke an immune response.  So what? Many of these alkaloids can also prevent allergic responses such as ephedrine, pseudoepehdrine, etc

Furthermore they are apparently unaware of the well known fact that animal PROTEINS happen to be very common allergens. So why are they trying to mislead people about the real facts?

This is a great example of why I tell people to do their own independent research and not rely on claims from sales and opinion sites for their "facts".

 It would be fair to suggest they need a higher intake of protein (and carbs) than the sedentary group because of muscle wear and breakdown during those long runs.

Actually the protein requirements between the average person and an extreme athlete is minimal.  The average person can only utilize about 3 ounces or 90 grams of protein daily. Anything above that actually becomes "toxic waste" to the body as it breaks down forming ammonia. Endurance athletes only require about an extra half an ounce of protein daily over the average person.

Taking excess protein does not build more muscle as some people believe.

 How do you explain the Eskimos? They eat nothing but fat, very little vegetable matter, and perhaps a berry or two. No cancer, no diabetes, no heart disease, no gum disease. There are also indigenous people that subsided on fish and coconuts, also without any vegetables. That was it! They didn't start getting sick until carbs were introduced to their diets.

First of all fats are not proteins. What raises the IGF-1 is high protein. And again even at that there are other factors in play.  Just like we know estrogens can cause cancer, but not everyone exposed to estrogen is going to get cancer. 

And Eskimos do get cancer:

http://www.cancermonthly.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=228

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1580163/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1580163/pdf/pubhealthrep00200-013...

And heart disease:

http://www.health.am/ab/more/artery-plaque-could-be-from-high-smoking-rates/

http://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/S0939-4753(09)00102-1/abstract

And diabetes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3224539

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1425106

http://www.springerlink.com/content/7vq2v21465343683/

And gum disease:

http://jdr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/52/4/791

Granted that changes in diet may have contributed to the rise in some of these conditions. On the other hand where are the studies showing lower rates of these diseases prior to changes in their native diet to a more Westernized diet?

I am sorry if I sound over skeptical, but all the claims sound like some multi level marketing sales pitch where they are claiming this is answer to make you live to be over 100 years old based on people in one part of the world doing..........  You care to take a guess as to how many times I have heard these claims? And it is always the same style of they have no disease, but no validating proof. And thus the problem I have.  There are a lot of assumptions in the claim that high protein is safe or healthy. Proof of the claim is lacking though.

In addition there are a few other important facts that are being overlooked.

For one the Eskimos do get cancer, but the rates for certain cancers are different than other parts of the world. Does this really have to do with diet? Or could it have something to do with they are not being exposed to the high levels of PCBs, DDT, dioxins, metals, etc. that people in other parts of the world are exposed to?

Then these is the fact that they consume omega 3 fatty acids than the average American.  Again the topic is high protein, not fats. But when Americans think protein beef is usually the first thing that comes to mind.  Keep in mind though that beef is loaded with omega 6 fatty acids including the pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid (AA). Again inflammation, including that from AA can promote cancer.  So to compare the high protein American diet loaded with omega 6s to the Eskimo diet loaded with anti-inflammatory omega 3s is comparing apples to oranges.

And finally there is the fact that the Eskimo's diet is based on thousands of years of adaptation. So again, this does not mean Americans can just suddenly go on an Eskimo diet and expect to be healthy. Even a person who has been a strict vegetarian for years cannot suddenly go on a high protein meat diet without getting sick. The body adapts to diets to a large extent. Although this still does not mean that the body will be healthy if it adapts to a strict diet.

You may also want to look at this on the Inuit diet, which shows where their C came from and the fact that they do consume plant matter, not all fat and meat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit

Diet

The Inuit have traditionally been hunters and fishers. They still hunt whales, walrus, caribou, seal, polar bears, muskoxen, birds, and at times other less commonly eaten animals such as the Arctic Fox. The typical Inuit diet is high in protein and very high in fat - in their traditional diets, Inuit consumed an average of 75% of their daily energy intake from fat.^[25] While it is not possible to cultivate plants for food in the Arctic the Inuit have traditionally gathered those that are naturally available. Grasses, tubers, roots, stems, berries, and seaweed (kuanniq or edible seaweed) were collected and preserved depending on the season and the location.^{[26][27][28][29][30]} There are a vast aray of differenthunting technologies that the Inuit used to gather their food

In the 1920s anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson lived with and studied a group of Inuit.^[31] The study focused on the fact that the Inuit's extremely low-carbohydrate diet had no adverse effects on their health, nor indeed, Stefansson's own health. Stefansson (1946) also observed that the Inuit were able to get the necessary vitamins they needed from their traditional winter diet, which did not contain any plant matter. In particular, he found that adequate vitamin C could be obtained from items in their traditional diet of raw meat such as Ringed Seal liver and whale skin (muktuk). While there was considerable scepticism when he reported these findings, they have been borne out in recent studies.^[32]