Book series of "The Fall of Lucifer... 
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Has anyone on this forum read the 1st two books in the series of seven? The first two came out in the book stores in the religious section and the third book will come out in March in the Science fiction section.(at Barns & Noble) I just finished the second one and the books have caused me to rethink some of my beliefs. I read the series of "Conversations With God" years ago and half way through the 1st. book I set it down and told the Lord, "I don't know that I still believe all the doctrines I have been taught over the years but I will always love you and serve you." The Spirit of the Lord said, "What else is there?" It's always been about a personal relationship with our Creator. It's humans that have made it more complicated than that.
- Re: Book series of "The Fall of Luc... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,559,689
The origin of Lucifer - His Beauty and Perfection
Ezekiel 28-- is careful to point out that Lucifer is a created being. He is not eternal, but limited and finite. Before the fall, Lucifer is perfect... intellectually and physically.
Ez. 28:13 describes the beauty of Lucifer. "The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created."
Christian writer Dwight Pentecost wrote:
"It was not necessary for Lucifer to learn to play a musical instrument in order to praise God. If you please, he had a built-in pipe organ... Lucifer, because of his beauty, did what a musical instrument would do in the hands of a skilled musician... Lucifer didn't have to look for someone to play the organ so that he could sing the doxology... he was the doxology." His name "serpent" means "The shining one."
St. Paul also describes him as "an angel of light".
(II Cor 11:14)
His Place: He was in Eden, the garden of God, on the holy mountain of God.
Later Ezekiel remarks, "You defiled your sanctuaries." Ez. 28:18
His Power: Ez 28:14 says, "You were the anointed cherub who covers." He was one of the cherubs that could look upon the glory of God and voice praise and thanksgiving directly to Him. The cherubim were one of the highest orders of the angels and it was over this class of angels that Lucifer was given authority.
His Pride: Ez. 28:15-18 Iniquity was found in him -- his heart was lifted up because of his beauty -- He corrupted his wisdom for the sake of his splendor.
The Fall of Lucifer - Where he went wrong
The 5 things Lucifer wanted: Isaiah 14:13-14
1. Lucifer wanted God's place. "I will ascend into heaven." He wanted to move God off His throne.
2. Lucifer wanted God's position. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God."
"Stars" = angels of God.
Lucifer was never the Commander-in-Chief of the angelic army, but he was a Five-Star General. He was not happy just being in charge of the cherubim;
he wanted sole authority over all the angels without submitting himself to the authority of the Creator. He wanted to eliminate God from the scene.
3. He wants to control all the universe--absolute control. "I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north."
4. He was no longer happy to be a reflector of his Creator, he wanted to be the originator. "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds." Of the 150 references to clouds in the Bible, over 100 of them are related to the presence and glory of God. Lucifer was saying he was going to take to himself a greater glory than the glory of God.
5. He wanted to be responsible to no one but himself. He wanted total independence. "I will be like the Most High."
His Punishment
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mount of God (28:16). I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones" (vs. 16) I cast you to the ground (vs. 17) I laid you before kings, that they might gaze at you (vs 17) I brought fire from your midst....it devoured you. (vs. 18) I turned you to ashes upon the earth (vs 18)
Lucifer's proud heart was the reason for his fall, and the Bible tells us he did indeed fall, and took some of the angels with him. (Rev. 12:7-12)
Some believe that Lucifer's fall to earth took place at Jesus' resurrection or ascension.
What we must remember is that Christ is victorious, but the devil is not a symbol or legend, he is very real. He is an angel turned into a devil by pride. And pride is still a very real temptation that faces us persistently -- because Lucifer is seeking to reproduce himself -- the most prideful being of all.
"The Devil sleeps like an animal in the shadow of good works waiting for us to conceive a secret admiration of ourselves."
How did all this happen?
*
Did God know the pride that would captivate the heart of Lucifer when He created him?
Yes, since God is omniscient, He knew.
*
Could God have prevented it?
Yes, since God is omnipotent, He could have.
*
Why didn't He? How could a perfect, holy being fall?
Lucifer had no sinful world to lure him, no tempter to push him and no innate sinful nature to overpower him. How could the first unholy affection arise in an angelic being?
The answer lies in the fact that Lucifer was created with a freedom to choose just as we are. God gave angels and people the choice of good or evil. But, even though God permits the devil to do his work in this world, God is still in control.
Jesus has complete power over Lucifer
-- he defeated Lucifer when he died and rose again for the sins of mankind --.
One day Lucifer will be bound forever, never again to do his evil work. But until that day, we who belong to Christ are part of the ongoing battle for our very souls.
Our weapons are the Word of God, being watchful, giving no place to him and resisting him.
http://www.steliart.com/angelology_fallen_the_punishment.html
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This is a reply to # 1,559,713Look, I don't pretend to know the bible
but in reading the above post it occurred to me
that Lucifer was acting very human in his disobedience.
We tend to think we know what is best for us and
go for it. Sometimes what we think we want isn't
at all what we had in mind.
Our own pride and ego blind us.
I think this story of lucifer is just that, a story.
I think the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of eden
is a story too.
It's just someone trying to explain something.
I tend to believe that Ego, and it's defenses
create a lot of the suffering in the world.
That stance of "I'm better than you", which
of course is never given as the reason for the action,
but underlies it all the same.
Just throwing some ideas out there.
Marj
- Re: "The Fall of Lucifer".... a meta... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,561,738Hey Marj,
Everyone has a choice to believe it’s a real story or not but I hope you were able to gleam good from it as God would have you do.
The King of Tyre was a real human ruler that flaunted the thoughts and actions of Lucifer or perhaps this may have been an actual case of direct possession by Satan. The King of Tyre may not have actually been Satan but he did not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men…and Ezekiel called him on it. So basically he was working in the flesh instead of walking in the fruits of the Spirit. The works of the flesh concentrates on “I”, “Me” and has no regard for others.
.
Mark 8:33
But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Again, Peter was not Satan but he had his mind on the things of men at that moment and not on the things of God and Jesus called him on it.
So you see, even Christians can be guilty of allowing their minds to think like Satan. It happens to everyone at one time or another but the difference being, do we continue to think like an antichrist or do we learn a better way to be mindful of the things of God? Peter was selfishly thinking that he did not want Christ to die because he was thinking of himself being alone without Christ in the world. He was not thinking of the bigger picture of saving all of humanity by the selfless act of Christ taking everyone’s sins upon Himself and paying the price for us all.
Just as there was historically a real ruler of Tyre, there is at the same time a real angel named Lucifer/Satan. Both did not have in mind the things of God and did not ever choose to change their way of thinking. It’s much better to self analyze ourselves each day to see if we have in mind the things of God (the Fruits of the Spirit). If not, lets hope a dear friend will bring it to our attention and we heed their words of wisdom and not turn to thinking ourselves as gods as the King of Tyre and Satan did.
- Re: "The Fall of Lucifer".... a meta... trust2009
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,562,285Advertisement
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To be God loving I want to have eyes that see the suffering because I have tears and understanding that arrests my crooked action from increasing more pain to others. It is the seeing of facts of bad reality fearlessly that true love is generated in me. Only in this GOd will help us.
I think luscifer thought himself too nice to be possitive just not to see the bad things - just in order to avoid awareness of the suffering and tears in his eyes. He does not want to be kind and sensitive to the needs of others; he is heartless; and he escapes by looking at nice things he adorned himself with artificial lies of shining green eyes. So the word luscifer, a false deceptive light, the bearer of light. He cannot see God's light for he has no love in him. He is a coward, just good at playing fear and spooks in the poor people's mind; he want others to be like himself and not to see and be real to the creation of God. I hate his invention and cruelty and harm.
thank you.
- Re: "The Fall of Lucifer".... a meta... InnerCalm
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,568,882Do you actually think "lucifer" is a real entity? Or are you using this in a metaphorical construct as the shadow side of "god." If it is an entity then you have to ask the deeper question, why would the "god" character allow something he created to cause such harm. It would be like watching your child beat the crap out of all the kids in the village and stand back and say...free will. The responisbility is on the parent. And in the biblical god case, even more so. if you created something and it caused death and destruction, then....reasoning suggests that.......
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- Re: "The Fall of Lucifer".... a meta... InnerCalm
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- Re: Mark 8:33, what about Matt 16:22... lilpolock
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This is a reply to # 1,562,285Jesus had just asked his disciples what people were saying about him.
"But who do you say that I am?"
Matt 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ,
the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:22
Then Peter took him and began to rebuke him saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Christ had just confirmed himself as Son of God to his disciples. Peter could not believe that God would allow any
thing bad to happen to Him. Peter was operating from the perspective of Ego. Just as Satan, because of his beauty
let his pride override his service.
Basically I agree with what you say about pride.
I just don't believe we have to personify it into a being
called Satan.
Marj
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