THE Sutter approach 
Sumner
15 y
3,393
Uny, saw you got into a mini-debate with Doc Sutter. He advises using Barefoot's dewormers straight everyday for two weeks and then doing a series of coke flushes ( Liver Flush variant).
Sutter doesn't really mention where the colon cleansing fit into this regimen, although he does mention is as needing to be done. Maybe it's in the archives somewhere, but I'm too adrenally fatigued to go dumpster diving for it.
You and Miss Helfinger seem to think the ONLY protocol begins with colon cleansing, parasite eradication, and working upward to the liver and kidneys. Sutter's approach is "from the top down," starting with parasite herbs to kill the parasites infesting the liver and then flushing them out with the coke flush.
Hmmm...what to do, what to do...
I mention this only because riding out the colon cleansing on IF's nos. 1 and 2 is proving bumpy. Ashwagandha worked a little bit but has since ceased.
Matthew- Re: THE Sutter approach Insight
15 y
3,158
This is a reply to # 1,463,348On Dr.Sutter's program you do start with the colon cleanse. He just has critically ill people jump right to the liver and parasites.
For everyone else it's colon then parasites/liver, blood, lymphatics, cells.- Re: THE Sutter approach Sumner
15 y
3,097
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,463,358I just have this funky rash and wonder if my liver needs the help FIRST.
- Re: THE Sutter approach Insight
15 y
3,215
This is a reply to # 1,463,460In my opinion, it would be best to complete the Colon Cleanse first, or at least deal with the other issues (like liver, parasite) while you have IF#2 running through your system. From what I understand, IF#2 absorbs a lot of toxins not only from your colon and all, but from the rest of the body including released liver toxins, etc.
The goal is to have those poisons out of the body as soon as you can once they're released. Having done a complete Colon Cleanse usually ensures regular bowel movements, therefore any toxins released always have a ride they can catch on the way out. (although sometimes regularity still isn't enough, which is where coffee enemas and such come in, I believe.)
Without a clean colon and regular bowel movements, you can end up reabsorbing all those poisons, etc., before they are eliminated from the system and this does not feel good at all when it happens. That rash you describe can get much worse if you release more toxins than your body is ready to handle.
You should try to complete a colon cleanse, at least in part, if you can.
By the way, the order of cleansing I mentioned in my previous reply came directly from Doc Sutter's book. I really don't see any clash in the overall methodology between Dr.Sutter and Dr.Schulze. The difference mainly is in some of the substances and techniques. Doc Sutter's protocol is pretty much the basics. Schulze's program is a lot more elaborate. - Quickie... unyquity
15 y
3,359
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,463,460How did what I suggested work out for the rash?
I'll be answering 'more better' before I hit the sack tonight, but I'm going to need more information.
Here's what I know - that you indicate you have adrenal distress and I suggested Ashwagandha (1-3 tablespoons daily)...and for absolutely everyone, a complete & thorough colon cleanse. This (of course) is not to directly treat adrenal issues, but rather, put the body back into a 'baseline foundational state' where it is more able to heal itself.
3rd grade science: No organism, no matter how big or small, can sustain life if it can't 1) assimilate vital nutrition 2) expel waste.
>>>I mention this only because riding out the colon cleansing on IF's nos. 1 and 2 is proving bumpy. Ashwagandha worked a little bit but has since ceased.<<<
Tell my why IF#1 & IF#2 = "bumpy".
I need more info, Sumner - I'm stabbing in the dark (and that CAN cause harm!)
List:
What pharmaceuticals and OTC's currently:
Past OTCs & pharmaceuticals:
Daily diet:
How much water daily:
Coffee? other drugs?:
How many daily/weekly bms without IF#1?
FULL symptom list currently and how you feel the symptoms developed (over months/years, whatever...you know...the rest of the story :)
Blessings,
Unyquity
- Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
3,166
This is a reply to # 1,463,484Replies below all professional like.
How did what I suggested work out for the rash?
I'll be answering 'more better' before I hit the sack tonight, but I'm going to need more information.
Here's what I know - that you indicate you have adrenal distress and I suggested Ashwagandha (1-3 tablespoons daily)...and for absolutely everyone, a complete & thorough colon cleanse. This (of course) is not to directly treat adrenal issues, but rather, put the body back into a 'baseline foundational state' where it is more able to heal itself.
3rd grade science: No organism, no matter how big or small, can sustain life if it can't 1) assimilate vital nutrition 2) expel waste.
>>>I mention this only because riding out the colon cleansing on IF's nos. 1 and 2 is proving bumpy. Ashwagandha worked a little bit but has since ceased.<<<
Tell my why IF#1 & IF#2 = "bumpy".
>>> Hmmm, this could get dicey. Maybe because of the anti-depressant I've been prescribed somehow gets wiped by the IF#2? That bit o' Science didn't naturally come to me, I stole it from your private message.
I need more info, Sumner - I'm stabbing in the dark (and that CAN cause harm!)
List:
What pharmaceuticals and OTC's currently:
Effexor.
Past OTCs & pharmaceuticals:
None, really.
Daily diet:
Lots of 7-11-type coffee with robusta beans. I have been smoking cigarettes lately, although I attribute this to wigging out when the Effexor goes bye bye. I should probably drink more water.
How much water daily:
Probably about 50 ounces.
Coffee? other drugs?:
See above. A little reefer here and there, no drinking. Honestly all this stuff is rubbish, and I would trade it all for a lack of brain fog.
How many daily/weekly bms without IF#1?
Probably about 1.3 a day, average.
FULL symptom list currently and how you feel the symptoms developed (over months/years, whatever...you know...the rest of the story :)
Moody, rash on upper chest that goes over shoulders onto the back. I still can run fairly long distances, but I have no doubt my adrenals are wacked beyond belief.
Dark circles under eyes. My current sleep cycle is 5 a.m. to whenever. That started about two months ago.
- Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... unyquity
15 y
3,827
This is a reply to # 1,463,521Firstly, to answer your questions re: Dr. Sutter. In a nutshell, the protocol I suggest is taken directly from the three most successful natural healers of whom the world has ever known (that I am aware of)...Dr. Gerson, Dr. Christopher & Dr. Schulze . Between them, they cured tens of thousands of people from every type of disease known to man...and Drs. Christopher/Schulze did it without ANY type of isolated supplement or ANY possibility of causing harm (Dr. Gerson used some isolated substances that could cause harm and he did do weekly blood tests, etc., to make sure 'all was well).
As far as I am aware, Dr. Sutter's protocol is based upon a protocol he devised to heal himself (with lots of other research, of course). I have seen him suggest all manner of isolated substances that have potential to harm the body and throw the body out of homeostasis...and of course as most all CZers know, I am ADAMANTLY opposed to the use of phosphoric acid (and coca-cola) when Liver Flushing (or for any other reason) - and here's why: //www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1398984#i
Perhaps what Insight says is correct (I don't know, I don't have his book); but from his posts I see MANY things that conflict directly with Dr. Christopher, Dr. Schulze & Dr. Gerson.
Dr. Sutter's protocol and advise has likely helped MANY people to heal (and take responsibility for their health)...and stay OUT of the hands of allopathic medicine. His motives are pure, selfless and appreciated. I happen to feel the works of Drs. Gerson, Christopher & Schulze are more balanced and effective...and have a far less risk of harm. Onward to you.
**********************************
>>>
You and Miss Helfinger seem to think the ONLY protocol begins with colon cleansing, parasite eradication, and working upward to the liver and kidneys. Sutter's approach is "from the top down," starting with parasite herbs to kill the parasites infesting the liver and then flushing them out with the coke flush.<<<
Nope, I don't know what Miss H has suggested to you, but I suggest that you do it ALL simultaneously...for this reason:
****Doing one cleanse at a time, can many times work against us. Think of it like restoring an automobile that's been driven hard & fast for 30 years without much (any!) regular maintenance...and really (REALLY!) cheap fuel - many times 'fuel' that was definitely not even designed for the car! The exhaust is clogged, the fuel lines are filthy, the oil/filter needs changed (desperately), the carburetor needs calibrated and cleaned, sparks & plugs changed & gapped, alternator fixed/adjusted; transmission rebuilt (or at least overhauled); suspension aligned; new tires needed, brake pads replaced., etc. If you cleanse the exhaust & fuel lines (similar to the colon & parasite) before cleansing the oil/filter and carb (liver & parasites), you end up filthy fuel lines and clogged exhaust before you ever get the carb/oil/filter work. But if you do the oil/filter/carb before you cleanse the fuel lines and get the gunk out of the exhaust and deal the points & plugs, the plugs'll be corroded again before you know it. New tires & brake pads before an alignment? A waste of new tires/brake pads. If the alternater is 'shorting or weak' that stresses all the system parts....the electrical flow through the engine is no different than the electrical flow through the body. Change to high-grade fuel before cleansing and restoring the damage from the cheap fuel? :::sigh::: That can end up being a waste of fuel (too rich for the compromised system to handle). The human body is no different. It's always much more effective to 'put it up on blocks' and do a full body cleanse/restore, than it is to do it one at a time. Yep, it's more work, but it's FAR more effective (and you'll get MUCH more life out of the car by doing it that way). Remember: in this toxic/poisoned world, our bodies are like high-performance automobiles CONSTANTLY in overdrive (generally running on VERY low grade fuel with extremely little maintenance). There's no truly safe/healthy protocol (maintenance) we can do, that's as extreme as the totally unnatural conditions we live in. And it's only MDs and "alternative practicioners" that believe we can deal with one system of the body at a time. EVERY system/organ in the body depends upon every other. (Perhaps those analogies weren't "mechanically/technically perfect", but I'm sure you get the idea). In one of Dr. Schulze s interviews he talks about how many people say: "Well I did a colon cleanse; I did several Liver Flushes already; yeah, I juice fasted a few years ago; yes! I did hot/cold showers; I tried the vegan thing; I took herbs...none of it worked!" And Dr. Schulze replies, "But did you ever do everything TOGETHER?".****
[edit] The time to parasite cleanse is during colon cleansing & liver flushing....and then anytime there's parasites once the elimination channels are open. The critters feed, breed & hide in the mucoid plaque, crevices & 'diverticulitis bubbles' in the intestines. Anybody that claims you can successfully eradicate critters (by just using herbs) without doing deep & thorough colon cleansing (to eliminate their main source of food, housing, breeding grounds AND their MAIN place to hide from killing herbs)...either makes a LOT of money selling parasite herbs, or is pretty dull.
***************
>>> Ashwagandha worked a little bit but has since ceased.<<<
For consideration: I often hear people say: "The herbs in the IF#1: have stopped working - I've acclimated to them - they're addictive, I keep needing more - I need more to accomplish the same thing., etc" And I respond: have you thoroughly and deeply cleansed your colon since you've been taking the IF#1? NO have you altered your diet so that you stop forming mucous? NO have you increased fiber and fluids? NO have you done ANYTHING to increase your peristalsis or heal your body and stop your condition from getting worse? NO.
Hmmm, then, maybe perhaps, since they're the same exact same herbs and you're taking them the exact same way...that instead of the herbs not working the same way - perhaps your condition has worsened? What say you? To my knowledge, you've added nicotine (which worsens adrenal issues substantially). You said you'd stop smoking pot, but now you're smoking again. So perhaps that 'line of thought' makes some sense to you. ???
*****************
>>>Honestly all this stuff is rubbish, and I would trade it all for a lack of brain fog.<<<
Well, I'd call coffee, cigarettes & reefer in the presence of adrenal distress & Effexor a bit of a different word than "rubbish"...but since I do my best to 'keep it wholesome', "rubbish" will have to suffice.
If you would really "trade it all for lack of brain fog", then put them down already. Caffeine & nicotine are likely the TWO WORST SUBSTANCES (other than Ritalin, Cocain or Meth) for adrenal distress. Cannabis INDUCES adrenal distress. I've got two tinctures that are LIFE SAVERS here...Kola Nut or the Brain Formula (that has Kola Nut) WILL help you get off the coffee without those horrendous 'sick headaches from hell'. And Lobelia WILL help you get off the nicotine (and it's a gentle sedative as well).
Let's leave out the worst offenders (caffeine, cannabis & nicotine) and go to the "adjuncts"...the fluoride/chlorine in the water of the coffee and the additives in the cigarettes.
Read this regarding fluoride (there WILL be a test :) http://www.tuberose.com/Fluoride.html
Read this regarding cigarette additives (ditto):
http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients_3.htm
So, you can't REALLY expect me to believe that YOU expect your body to heal itself while you're plowing it with all that, right? Of course, right.
********************
Sumner, I need your help here (I really do...this needs to be posted in 'good form' but I really don't have the time). Please (if you'd be so kind) go through these next two links, and post the top 5-10 reasons why someone with adrenal issues shouldn't drink caffeine or smoke.
Google search on: adrenal +coffee OR caffeine:
http://tinyurl.com/lnytah
Google search on: adrenal +nicotine OR cigarettes
http://tinyurl.com/lvgeqp
(That's fair right? You help me -and everybody that'll be reading the information for years- and I'll help you...that seems 'right' to me). Besides, your 'style' is SO effective...please, please, purdy please? :)
*********************
Google search on: adrenal +cannabis OR marijuana
http://tinyurl.com/lx9y7v
It bandaids the symptoms but worsens the condition exponentially....for some, it even causes adrenal stress.
Dude, I've BTDT. I've defended it's use; I've railed against the PTB and their bullshyt regarding marijuana; I've justified, and I used it to "treat" Depression for years. It cost me eight years of my life.
Bottom line, it's making you worse...no matter HOW much it feels like it's not. The other bottom line: if the PTB wanted to stop the use of MJ (or any other illegal drug) they could. The reason they don't is because it IS VERY harmful and VERY addicting (ever know a daily pot smoker that quit successfully?). It serves their purposes QUITE well for people to be running around in a THC induced fog believing they're not compromised.
'Just like with all their other propaganda, they've done a FANTASTIC job with this - they've "created" a rebellion/attitude that causes tens of thousands of people to become addicted and sick. It's a scam; you've been duped; I was duped. Let's just admit it...and be smarter & healthier.
********************
First rule of healing: STOP doing what is killing you; start doing what will make you well.
STOP ingesting and inhaling like THE three top things you're ingesting that INDUCE adrenal distress. If you don't care enough about yourself to get tough on yourself, there's no one else that does.
********************
Regarding the Effexor - it's very possibly (very likely) that your rash is induced by the Effexor: http://tinyurl.com/mkh5hk
It's also typical that withdrawing off Effexor too rapidly can cause HORRENDOUS & BRUTAL side effects and issues. If you haven't already, please check out this program http://theroadback.org/
(specific for your class of drug http://theroadback.org/aaataper.htm)
...and then get back to me and tell me what you think (and why or why not you will or will not give give this program some consideration). It's NOT 100% natural...but it has worked for MANY people. I can help you put together a similar program (as likely can Miss H)...but just trying to "tough through" an Effexor withdrawal is NOT safe, sane, nor do I recommend it.
**********************
Whether it's been a day, a week, a month or a year (or more)...the truth you're going to HAVE to deal with is this: You're on FOUR physically addictive substances, all four induce adrenal distress, anxiety, mood changes, Depression and mental abnormalities. All four harm your body, cause the very thing you're wanting to be free from, and prevent your body from healing. Someone using addictive substances that knows they are harming themselves but will not stop using them is called what? An addict.
"They" did it to you with the Effexor - but you're doing it to yourself with the rest.
Superfood - 6T daily
Fish Oil - 1200 EPA/600 DHA daily
Ashwagandha - 3T daily
IF#1 = 3 bms daily
If needed:
Brain Formula or Kola Nut (to withdraw from coffee)
Lobelia (to withdraw from cigarettes)
Backbone (to withdraw from cannabis) flu-like symptoms are very typical when withdrawing
How will you feel? FLAT. You'll likely feel like you'll never laugh or be yourself again - you won't feel 'sharp' or witty or funny....that's what happens when you use stimulants and substances that alter and artifically increase/enhance your brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) to abnormal levels...when you withdraw, the brain chemicals have been artificially elevated for so long, that a normal level feels like the pits...and it can take weeks or months for a normal level to feel normal again. Use this recovery time to get your sleep schedule right. Every time you 'give in', you set yourself back substantially. You'll deal with it sooner or later Sumner, and the longer it takes to decide to deal with it...the worse you will become and the worse/harder it will be. I promise.
You can win, but you're going to HAVE to fight! (and it's NOT a fun battle to fight). There's no magic bullet for this. You can have EVERYTHING you want...you CAN be yourself, you CAN be in charge of your life and your future - but not when you can't stop ingesting/using addictive substances that harm you. You don't need more information from Miss H, from Doc Sutter, from me, or anybody else. You just need to APPLY what you ALREADY know...understanding that it took quite awhile for to get into this mess, and it's going to take quite awhile for your body to get you out of it. (but of course, I'm sure we'll all be here to help you with the 'details').
>>>Honestly all this stuff is rubbish, and I would trade it all for a lack of brain fog.<<<
You've got all the evidence you need now...what you do with it WILL determine your future.
Healthiest of blessings -
Unyquity
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Insight
15 y
3,275
This is a reply to # 1,463,549
Great information, Unyquity.
I'm glad you feel that way about marijuana. You're spot on - it is harmful to the body. THC is fat soluble. The brain is made of fat. A lot of THC goes to your brain and probably stays there for a long time. It's very hard to clean THC and other substances from fat cells, especially in the brain, I'd imagine. One thing a lot of people don't know about marijuana is that it can eventually or spontaneously cause a psychosis and make you quite paranoid, which can last for months. I know of at least two people who had it happen spontaneously and they were full blown hallucinating and having panic attacks, which lasted for months. Having a non-stop panic attack - all day and all night for months (complete with hallucinations) - is terrible. Everyone thinks it won't happen to them, until it does.
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... unyquity
15 y
3,009
This is a reply to # 1,463,642I've never actually known anyone personally that has happened to, but I've known 'folks that know folks'...and from what I've heard, that 'spontaneous crack/psychosis' is basically the end of their life :(
Sadly, the conditioning and ploys of the PTB are VERY deep and successful with cannabis :( The best way ANY authority/parent can cause an underling/child to do ANYTHING is to tell them NOT to do it, using reasoning that is ridiculously 'transparent' and very irrational (which is EXACTLY what they do with cannabis). Then make it readily available and easy to access....making it seem "delightfully" rebellious & risky while making the intended victim feel like he's superior because he 'sees through' their ridiculous and irrationality.
Just put a bowl of dried pinto beans on the table and say to a child (as you're walking out the door)..."Whatever you do, do NOT put any of those beans in your ears! Because even though a LOT of children have a LOT of fun putting beans in their ears & pulling them out again, you might be sorry when you're 65. So, I'm going outside now for 4 hours, and while I'm gone...do NOT put any of those beans in your ears. And if I catch you, I'll be VERY upset!" :::eyeroll:::
Oh yeah, that's "How to Make a Rational Child Do Something Dangerous and Irrational 101".
The truth is, in it's truly natural form, with truly natural use, I don't think Cannabis is/was all that harmful. It naturally has a THC content of something like 1-3%, and it's really does have a myriad of benefits. And it's use in native spiritual rituals and 'passing a peace pipe' (once or twice a year) likely caused nothing but "goodness". But what is sold now is NOT natural at all...it's been selectively hybridized for decades and now has a THC content that like 1000-1500% higher than in it's natural state (15%+ THC). That's NOT a natural substance - it's an addictive mind/body altering, dangerous one.
:::sigh::: We humans do NOT take very good care of ourselves OR our planet :(
Healthiest of blessings -
Unyquity
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... unyquity
15 y
3,009
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
3,544
RRR
This is a reply to # 1,463,549Phew. Okay.
I hear you on the Sutter thing.
I think, from what you said in the private message, that the reason colon cleansing with IF#2 and Effexor (or any anti-depressants) has proven so *rocky* is because the charcoal/bentonite is altering the drug in the bloodstream. This would be the reason I get super panicky when using the IF's for a few days? Yes?
The reason I checked Sutter (who has a fairly aggressive, black-white approach) was that colon cleansing was proving so bumpy, but you didn't have the full picture of me being on an anti-depressant. So...should I get a batch of IF#2 with no, or reduced, charcoal/bentonite?
I understand the car analogy. Anyone who can read that whole thing should be given a cookie, although not if they are colon cleansing. We know you don't do brevity. Would one *have* to do a full IP program to see considerable benefit? As money is an issue...would a simultaneous colon/parasite/liver/kidney/eating correctly/hydrating suffice? And laying off the stupid chemicals...
(On ashwagahnda, I was mixing in too many other nasties (cigs, pot, bad coffee) to see continued benefit.)
HERE'S THE DEAL: On the coffee, cigarettes and pot. I'm not addicted to any of them, and haven't touched them today since reading your post above. I have been a coffee drinker for about 9 years, have only smoked pot regularly recently, and started smoking on and off at 29 (I'm 32 now) when the whole barnyard went up in flames. Similar story to a lot of folks: unresolved (even unrealized/buried) childhood trauma, professional instability, bigtime current family problems (the really f-cked families stay that way forever, as the really psychotic members who f'd people up in the first place tend to stay that way through time, or worsen).
However, my nerves are shot. To use a line from an e-mail I sent to Uny, "they're not only shot, they're outside with a chalk outline around them." I only smoke cigarettes when I get panicky, there is never a steady stream of pot around and the coffee has been a "friend" for about a decade. Maybe that's when my adrenal issues began.
So, coffee and smoking are basically as counterintuitive and counterproductive as you can get. Why? (Uny asked me to post the top five reasons why each is a crackpot move, so here goes...) Apparently, the major reason is that with each cup of coffee, and especially for those of us with adrenal issues, you're simulating the exact emotions that your hairy ancestors went through when a lion chased them across the plains.
COFFEE IS EVIL
1. Coffee initiates serious neuron activity, right from that first cup of the day. It doesn't take a genius to see that there might be a downside to all of this neuron activity. In fact, uncontrolled neuron firing creates an emergency situation, which triggers the pituitary gland in the brain to secrete ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone). ACTH tells the adrenal glands to pump out stress hormones—the next major side effect of caffeine.
2. Everybody "knows" that caffeine makes you more alert and clearheaded. Think again. A cup of coffee gives you a wakeup jolt because it triggers a stress response. Your adrenal glands are prompted to kick out the same stress hormones that are released when you perceive an external threat or danger. Your muscles tense, your blood Sugar elevates for extra energy, your pulse and respiration rates speed up, and your state of alertness increases so you're ready to wrestle with or run from environmental dangers.
3. It generally speeds up our body by increasing our basal metabolic rate (BMR), which burns more calories. Initially, caffeine may lower blood sugar; however, this can lead to increased hunger or cravings for sweets. (ALWAYS good to plow down the Twizzlers and Milk Duds on a colon cleanse!)
4. Although we think of caffeine in coffee as the "wake-me-up" chemical, chronic use of it may cause fatigue, headache, moodiness, and Depression in some people. (Nice.)
5. Caffeine doesn't add energy to your system, it just burns up your reserves at a faster pace. You get a short-term boost at the expense of long-term jitters and fatigue. (I'm headed over to Starbucks to picket after this post. What a complete sham.)
SMOKING SUCKS (Your live out of you, esp. if you have adrenal issues):
1. From Wiki: By binding to ganglion type nicotinic receptors in the adrenal medulla nicotine increases flow of adrenaline (epinephrine), a stimulating hormone. By binding to the receptors, it causes cell depolarization and an influx of calcium through voltage-gated calcium channels. Calcium triggers the exocytosis of chromaffin granules and thus the release of epinephrine (and norepinephrine) into the bloodstream. The release of epinephrine (adrenaline) causes an increase in heart rate, blood pressure and respiration, as well as higher blood glucose levels. (Almost as bad as Uny's car analogy)
2-5. I'm getting verbose here and a lot of the stuff on the Web regarding nicotine and adrenals has to do with testing on rats, so apparently they can't even find humans to test cigarettes on, which should tell me that they are bad for me.
It's all shite, mate. All of it. Yet, when you or I get panicky, like millions of others of Americans with adrenal issues, it's right to the cigarettes, coffee, pot, road rage, whatever. Whatever your little "friend" or "toy" is. I don't ENJOY any of the above, they don't solve my "issues" when I'm doing them or done doing them, and I'm set back from healing.
I'm committed to stopping them. I think the key is not letting IF#2 alter the Effexor in my bloodstream, right?
I see your recommendations for supplements and the like. I will wait until you reply regarding which elements of the IP can be tackled separately, if they can.
Annnnd, what do we do to get me off the Effexor?
Matt
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... t_montreal
15 y
3,030
This is a reply to # 1,463,895Gosh,
I hear ya Matt! Congrats for being so honest. I'm right up there with you in terms of addiction, minus the pot and cigarettes...unfortunately I am also a coffee junkhead, although I can tolerate at max, less than a cup a day- but even that makes me obviously crazy!
For me the drug of choice is carbs and sugar, and I would give my left arm- or firstborn, whatever would be less painful (!) to get out of the cycle that only leads to postponing the healing process.
Great insight about the family crap too....I just wonder how deep the ties run and how one can claw their way out of the patterns that serve no purpose.
I look forward to hearing what Uny has to say about all of this...I am also interested in knowing what/if any parts of the IP can be done seperately...
Love,
T.- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
2,990
This is a reply to # 1,463,905"Great insight about the family crap too....I just wonder how deep the ties run and how one can claw their way out of the patterns that serve no purpose."
Apparently this gets easier when your body is cleaner.- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... t_montreal
15 y
3,035
This is a reply to # 1,463,928Amen! Yup I totally agree:)
You know what I find fascinating, in a sort of crummy way?
My whole life, I lived with very angry people, in a home with plentiful amounts of wheat, sugar, dairy and meat...and lo and behold, these are my worst allergies??!!
I always wondered if there was a connection with the emotions in the home and the type of food being eaten there...or if one affected the other- or if my whole family is just plain toxic and that's the mystery solved;)
T.- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
2,964
This is a reply to # 1,463,967I think the big problem for a lot of adults, who take a "timeout" to deal with their childhood "issues" is that at some point they realize that life is kind of a marathon of the mundane and that people, generally, are pretty good-intentioned, despite their quirks.
From kids of jacked up families, this makes no sense. They've dealt with and maneuvered around unreasonable, abusive, narcissistic, whatever-type parents, and they had no choice but to accept (in some part) that parent or their parents' words and actions as reality.
The grown-up kid from the abusive family is like a computer running an outdated, faulty operating system. It doesn't jibe with society, or personal connections aren't happening, and some sort of "crack-up" or "breakdown" occurs. The operating system has crashed.
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
2,964
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... t_montreal
15 y
3,035
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... unyquity
15 y
3,055
This is a reply to # 1,463,905>>>For me the drug of choice is carbs and sugar, and I would give my left arm- or firstborn, whatever would be less painful (!) to get out of the cycle that only leads to postponing the healing process.<<<
Uhhh, duhhh, call me "simple"...but the way to get out of the cycle of eating carbs & Sugar is to stop buying them and stop eating them. :)
>>>Great insight about the family crap too....I just wonder how deep the ties run and how one can claw their way out of the patterns that serve no purpose.<<<
First, identify all the puzzle pieces of the pattern clearly. Emotional/spiritual healing is just like ALL kinds of healing...find/identify the problem, find the cause, assess the damage and DO (or stop doing) what continues to make us sick - and DO what makes us healthy
We can change our DNA; we can change emotional patterns. It's much easier when it's all done together...a sick, poisoned body isn't much support for healing & restoring emotions...especially when the poisons alter the emotions & mind). And sick, demented emotional patterns & and a spirit/energy out of touch with the Source aren't much support for broken body. That's why the IP is so successful and so ingenious.
>>>I look forward to hearing what Uny has to say about all of this...I am also interested in knowing what/if any parts of the IP can be done seperately...<<<
You can try to 'take off' or separate any one given part of the body, soul, or spirit and heal/cleanse/restore it than you'd like...but the fact is, we can NOT separate any one given part of the body, soul or spirit from the other parts. You'll have SOME measure of success (as long as you're actually healing/cleansing naturally) because ANY increase of 'flow' is better than none.
Some folks can address a few 'parts' and patch themselves up enough to 'get by' to their satisfaction. I'll never criticize anyone for making that choice, because I realize how deeply we've all been conditioned (and how unlevel the playing field actually is). But MY goal is to still be doing cartwheels, riding my bike down to the river, climbing trees for 'green walnut hulls', and living, loving and laughing VIBRANTLY until the night I fall asleep for the last time....and to teach/help others to do the same.
Every little bit helps - progress IS a process. If we feed our body GOOD food/fuel, cleanse out the toxic junk (colon, liver, kidneys), especially take care of our liver (the seat of our emotions to Eastern & Ayurvedic healers), while making a good plan and focusing on what we desire and our goals (instead of our mistakes, our 'patterns' and past failures)...that's usually enough to lay great groundwork for winning (those things are kinda like the 'basic training'...then we've gotta jump in there and win the war!).
Hugs aplenty -
Unyquity
- Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... Sumner
15 y
2,990
- Wow...Re: Answers: +edit Re: Quickie... healinginHiswings
15 y
3,419
R
This is a reply to # 1,463,895Yes, I'm on sabbatical, but I miss y'all and wanted to check in to see how folks are doing...
Matt, I just had to say something in public about your post, above. Do you realize how much you have grown as a man since your first post on Uny's forum? I am simply amazed. Where did that messed up kid go? Even since the last six weeks or whenever it was I got so short-tempered with you (and btw, I'm letting everyone know that you accepted my apologies with the grace of a true gentleman and you both blessed me and humbled me), you have grown by leaps and bounds.
Just listen to this post. It definitely deserved 3 Rs. It was not only informative, it was insightful. It's one thing to bam bam bam people with facts and research, but to give reasons "why" is such a fantastic teaching technique. These insights of yours were so personal and refreshingly honest and open. That gives a human touch, which motivates folks like me to work harder at our own healing. Finally, Matt, you've got a GREAT writing voice. It's young, savvy, to the point, and witty. You'd make a great blogger if you aren't one already. I think a journal about your ups and downs with learning about natural healing would be highly entertaining and would get picked up by a lot of young folks and a goodly number of us *ahem* hot grandmammas and grandpappas, too.
I just wanted to take a minute (while I couldn't sleep anyway) to tell you how pleased I am with how much you are changing for the better and how encouraged that makes me feel.
Carry on. I can't wait to see your progress in a month. :)
Wings- Re: Wow...Re: Answers: +edit Re: Qui... Sumner
15 y
3,002
This is a reply to # 1,464,048I figure being honest is the only way I'll ever get anything out of this mumbo jumbo health stuff. I definitely know my adrenals are WAAACKED, and I just want to get them back in order.
I'm being honest, no caffeine or nicotine today. No THC.- Re: Wow...Re: Answers: +edit Re: Qui... Sumner
15 y
3,017
This is a reply to # 1,464,053Also, UNY, ahem, since I've shown some *backbone*, can one substitute hemp oil for fish oil in your above list of supplements?
What about the adrenal tincture to go along with the Ashwagahnda? (It probably would be a good thing to address as lots of folks in the coming years will come down with this affliction as technology, life, politics moving way too fast for our brains.)- 2 in 1 response + known side effects... unyquity
15 y
3,340
This is a reply to # 1,464,059Use whatever type of oil you want that can provide you with that level of EPA/DHA :) That's a high level, but should seriously make a beneficial difference while getting off the Effexor.
Sure, the Adrenal Formula is great along with the Ashwagandha :)
>>>>I'm committed to stopping them. I think the key is not letting IF#2 alter the Effexor in my bloodstream, right?
I see your recommendations for supplements and the like. I will wait until you reply regarding which elements of the IP can be tackled separately, if they can.
Annnnd, what do we do to get me off the Effexor?<<<
The goal with these insidious chemicals is to start with a totally level/stable amount in the bloodstream, support your body in every way you can nutritionally, and make small, regular cuts in dosage. Then let your body adjust to EACH cut for 1-2 weeks (get stable again) then make another cut. But the cut HAS to be consistent...and you have to allow your body to stabilize between cuts.
Example: using a 10% cut in dosage, staring with 100 milligrams. A 10% cut of 100 milligrams is 10 mg. BUT...you do NOT cut 10mg "per cut". If you did that, when you got down to only 20 milligrams, a 10 mg cut would be FIFTY PERCENT of what your body is used to :( Each cut needs to be the same "percentage less" in your bloodstream as the cut before.
SO, you cut whatever percentage you choose each time you cut...of the PREVIOUS dose. Based on the 10%/100mg example, the first cut is 10 mgs, leaving a dose of 90 mgs. The next cut would be 9mg (10% of 90mg), leaving a dose of 81mg. The next cut is 8.1 mg...and so forth down the line.
Obviously, that's virtually impossible without taking it to a compounding pharmacist. The solution - water titration. Here's exactly how you do it: http://benzowithdrawal.com/forum/index.php?topic=11.0
(on the right hand side is a Excel spreadsheet you can download to use).
The example (link above) is for cutting/withdrawing from benzodiazepines, but the method is the same for any antidepressant that can't be "cut & measured" with a razor blade or 'by sight'.
Some folks can cut a LOT faster than 10% every two weeks from SNRI's...but some cannot.
******************
Regarding the IF#2. I've helped quite a few folks deal with this class of drugs (and benzos too). With the SNRI's MOST people can (and choose) to use the IF#2 as their first "cut" (they stay at their current/stable oral dosage, and let the small amount the charcoal/clay in the IF#2 adsorbs from their bloodstream be the first cut in dose). Most choose to do that because they WANT to keep cleansing and healing while they're going through the months it generally takes to get off these evil b*stards. (The IF#1's don't affect the blood level of SNRI's)
If you want to do that, then get the Adrenal tincture and take that along with the Ashwagandha (& whatever dose of Effexor you're now dealing with) for at LEAST 3-5 days. Keep all doses STABLE. Then start the 5 doses of IF#2...taking the Effexor at least one hour away from any of the doses. Then see what you get. If you can handle it, then stick with that for say, a week (???) until the symptoms stabilize...then make your first dose cut of the Effexor.
By doing this, you can continue cleansing & juice fasting (which is a GREAT HELP with the withdrawal) while healing.
If you don't want to do it like that (or you want to try it further down the line)...no problem. You can just use the IF#1 for regular/healthy bms, or you can have us customize a blend of IF#2 with NO bentonite/charcoal...or 1/2 bentonite/charcoal. Or just take 1/2 teaspoon size doses of the IF#2 you have.
And one last "biggie truth"...one can develop side-effects from a drug at any time during the usage - even if you didn't have side effects when you first started using it.
I k-n-o-w KNOW this class of drugs - and I know that what you're experiencing could be 100% "side effects" and not your 'adrenals gone whacko'...what I don't know is how long you've been taking Effexor and when the issues you're having appearing. Wanna fill me in on that?
By the way, Effexor or Effexor XR?
Here's a list of known/common side effects for Effexor:
(hold on to yer hat)
* Nausea
* Headaches or Migraine Headaches
* Drowsiness
* Dry mouth
* Dizziness
* Insomnia
* Nervousness
* Loss of appetite
* Body weakness
* Sweating
* Constipation
* High blood pressure (hypertension)
* Ejaculation problems
* Anxiety
* Shakiness (tremors)
* Diarrhea
* Yawning
* Chills
* Vomiting
* Indigestion (dyspepsia)
* Impotence (erectile dysfunction or ED)
* Blurred vision
* A decreased sex drive (libido)
* Infections
* Flushing (redness of the skin, especially the face)
* Gas
* Weight loss
* Weight gain
* Abnormal dreams
* High cholesterol
* Agitation
* Confusion
* Unusual thoughts
* Increased urination
* Taste changes
* Suicidal thoughts or behavior
* Anxiety, agitation, or panic attacks
* Hostility or aggressiveness
* Engaging in unusual or dangerous activities
* Restlessness or inability to sit still
* Extreme elation, or a feeling of happiness that may switch back and forth with a depressed or sad mood
* Other unusual changes in behavior
* Difficulty breathing, coughing, or chest pain
* Heart palpitations
* Difficulty sleeping
* Signs of an allergic reaction, including:
o Unexplained rash
o Hives
o Itching
o Unexplained swelling
o Wheezing
o Difficulty breathing or swallowing
* Chest pain
* Facial swelling
* Irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia)
* Swelling of the tongue
* Mouth ulcers
* Hemorrhoids
* Muscle and bone pain
* Abnormal bleeding or bruising
* Anemia
* Liver problems
* Mania or hypomania
* Decreases in blood sodium levels
* Asthma
* Acne
* Sleep apnea
* Cataracts
* Enlarged prostate (known medically as benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH)
* Seizures
* Hair loss
Serotonin Syndrome symptoms (can be caused by Effexor):
* Confusion or other mental changes
* A rapid heart rate
* Nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea
* Hallucinations
* Blood pressure changes
* An irregular heart rhythm
* Overactive reflexes
* Fever, sweating, or shivering
* Shakiness
* Agitation
* Seizures
* Coma
I think that about 'covers it' from this end...get back to me with more questions and info, and we'll take it from there. :)
Healthiest of blessings,
Unyquity
- effexor, my experience. Miss Helfinger
15 y
3,376
This is a reply to # 1,464,101What she says is true Sumner. Effexor really screwed my body up two years ago. I was only on it for 6 months but I experienced a lot of nervousness and constipation, sheer soreness all over my body and then....drum roll...to that they added Neurontin (cause my adrenals were tanked from the Effexor they gave me that to calm me down ;) my hands started shaking and my tongue was swelling in my mouth.
I went back to the doc, told him I was a painter (and he should remember that) and that shaking hands was truly adverse. He took a liver panel and told me my liver enzymes were 'within range' and my tongue being swollen probably wasn't part of that.
I spent an afternoon patterning and thinking...I remember my tongue swelling when I was 10 and my fingers as well. I'd been given a sulfa drug for an allergy infection thing. Woke my mom up and scared her with my tongue so swollen I could not move it in my mouth and my fingers were swollen like sausages. Found out - I was allergic to sulfa drugs. Ok - that's good to know...but...
now - the same symptom and I'm all grown up and on no anti-biotics. Hmmm...did some searching and came across some TCM sites (traditional chinese medicine) and when the sides of the tongue are swollen it means...wait for it...liver congestion. The site said medications can sometimes overload the liver. Shocker.
Now - I get out the long, rectangularly folded, rice paper quality printed explanation/loophole collection given with a pharmaceutical. I read the entire thing. Guess what was listed under 'rare side effects'?
Tongue swelling. It was listed that if you have this to tell your doctor immediately and discontinue the meds.
What business did any doc have prescribing me a med they didn't have the rare and dangerous side effects memorized on? Yet this guy (that I actually liked, had a brain, you could talk straight with him) let me walk back outta his office after a liver panel and tell me my tongue being swollen would probably eventually go away.
The kicker: yes - I detoxed off Neurontin and Effexor by myself in just a few weeks. I do not, repeat *DO NOT* suggest others do this. But - I did it with loads of B's, juice, omegas & greens. Started a Colon Cleanse right afterward and magically - my adrenals and my tongue were loads better.
Rocket science? Not likely. - Re: 2 in 1 response + known side eff... Sumner
15 y
3,128
This is a reply to # 1,464,101Alright, lots to say, again. I'll try to keep it short this time...
Uny said: "Regarding the IF#2. I've helped quite a few folks deal with this class of drugs (and benzos too). With the SNRI's MOST people can (and choose) to use the IF#2 as their first "cut" (they stay at their current/stable oral dosage, and let the small amount the charcoal/clay in the IF#2 adsorbs from their bloodstream be the first cut in dose). Most choose to do that because they WANT to keep cleansing and healing while they're going through the months it generally takes to get off these evil b*stards. (The IF#1's don't affect the blood level of SNRI's)."
Right, right. Were these people *aware ahead of time* that using the IF#2 as the first "cut" in dosage of benzos/anti-depressants could/would make them panicky? I wasn't aware of IF#2's effect of anti-depressants and I paid the price. With the panic, came the smoking.
Staying off coffee while having adrenal issues has proved wonderful. It would seeeeeeeem...coffee was just jacking up my imbalanced hormones, making me get caught in anxious, depressive loops and unending fear. Fun stuff.
Now, the normal "coffee drinking public" without adrenal distress is just able to enjoy that cup or two a day, get the false stimulation and know none the better.
I am going to give this a wack: "If you want to do that, then get the Adrenal tincture and take that along with the Ashwagandha (& whatever dose of Effexor you're now dealing with) for at LEAST 3-5 days. Keep all doses STABLE. Then start the 5 doses of IF#2...taking the Effexor at least one hour away from any of the doses. Then see what you get. If you can handle it, then stick with that for say, a week (???) until the symptoms stabilize...then make your first dose cut of the Effexor."
**Disclaimer** I don't have a juicer. And in lieu of "superfood," I have hemp protein, spirulina, and an "Enriching Greens" mix that contains chlorella and everything else under the sun. Can this be a substitute for "superfood?" It's this guy...http://www.iherb.com/Natural-Factors-Enriching-Greens-Powder-with-Herbal-Phytosomes-10-6-oz-300-g/2625?at=0
This rash is fairly recent. By "issues," do you mean the depression, anxiety, general breakdown-y type emotions or do you mean *just* physical symptoms?
- Re: 2 in 1 response + known side eff... Sumner
15 y
3,019
This is a reply to # 1,464,488Also, when I went to that naturopath and she wallet-raped me, I left with a hair mineral analysis envelope that I'm to send away and get mailed back to her. That's okaaaay, we can just change that outgoing address to mine. :-)
Maybe this would be good to have, just to make sure I don't have high copper/adrenal issues, right. Also, is it worth getting that "saliva test" for adrenal gland hormone measurement at specific times of the day?
Thaaaaanks Uny.
Matt- Re: 2 in 1 response + known side eff... unyquity
15 y
3,049
This is a reply to # 1,464,493
Howdy Matt! :)
Doin' inserts to make sure I don't miss anything...and thanks (lots!) for that great info on coffee/adrenals!
Also, when I went to that naturopath and she wallet-raped me, I left with a hair mineral analysis envelope that I'm to send away and get mailed back to her. That's okaaaay, we can just change that outgoing address to mine. :-)
Maybe this would be good to have, just to make sure I don't have high copper/adrenal issues, right. Also, is it worth getting that "saliva test" for adrenal gland hormone measurement at specific times of the day?Yes, ND's are notorious for 'wallet raping' :(
- Hair analysis are VERY inconclusive and "iffy"; they can be affected by shampoo, what chemtrails you've been exposed to and the water in which you washed your hair. And of course...
- they're also affected by toxic pharmaceuticals. The Effexor IS affecting your liver and adrenals (hence every other organ/system). Even if the test were accurate (which it's not), it would only give you your "levels" as they're affected & altered by the Effexor that alters the actions of your organs. And that would conclusively show what? That your liver & adrenals (and other organs) are being adversely affected by Effexor. Is that something you need to spend money for to find out? -
- It makes MUCH more sense to put that money aside for a quality juicer and things that will help you HEAL
-Btw, if you take vitamin C before having any type of 'level' test done, it will show you're "high" on iron (because vitamin C releases iron from the tissues) and low on copper (because iron pushes out copper). But when you got the test results (which would NOT have indicated the TRUE state of your body/blood), you would likely be tempted to supplement with copper (which you didn't need), and take something to get rid of iron (which you wouldn't need). It's called "supplement roulette"...and your chances of winning are VERY slim...but instead of wagering your money, you're wagering your body. I highly suggest you don't play.
*********************
Uny said: "Regarding the IF#2. I've helped quite a few folks deal with this class of drugs (and benzos too). With the SNRI's MOST people can (and choose) to use the IF#2 as their first "cut" (they stay at their current/stable oral dosage, and let the small amount the charcoal/clay in the IF#2 adsorbs from their bloodstream be the first cut in dose). Most choose to do that because they WANT to keep cleansing and healing while they're going through the months it generally takes to get off these evil b*stards. (The IF#1's don't affect the blood level of SNRI's)."
Right, right. Were these people *aware ahead of time* that using the IF#2 as the first "cut" in dosage of benzos/anti-depressants could/would make them panicky? They were if they told me what pharmaceuticals they were taking :::grin::: I wasn't aware of IF#2's effect of anti-depressants and I paid the price. With the panic, came the smoking. This is why I suggest that everyone learn/read each ingredient of anything/everything they ingest and know how it works in the body BEFORE they ingest it. Bentonite/charcoal adsorb toxins...pharmaceutical drugs are toxins.*************************
Staying off coffee while having adrenal issues has proved wonderful.YIPPEE! It would seeeeeeeem...coffee was just jacking up my imbalanced hormones, making me get caught in anxious, depressive loops and unending fear. Fun stuff. Exactly, and that roller coaster serious 'bites'. Jack up the adrenaline with stimulants, get that 'rush of chemicals' and raise in blood sugar, and then 'whoosh', you go DOWN to a level lower than you were when you started...SO you drink/smoke more because of the 'dip' and then you're back up again. It's inisidious, and very harmful to everybody (but crucifying to those with adrenal issues, and other mental stuff)
Now, the normal "coffee drinking public" without adrenal distress is just able to enjoy that cup or two a day, get the false stimulation and know none the better. Exactly, but it hurts them just the same....and done for YEARS on end, it can 'add up' to major problems - especially when added to "stress" :(**************************
**Disclaimer** I don't have a juicer. When ya gonna get one?
And in lieu of "superfood," I have hemp protein, why do you feel you need extra protein? spirulina always good, and an "Enriching Greens" mix that contains chlorella and everything else under the sun. Can this be a substitute for "superfood?" It's this guy...http://www.iherb.com/Natural-Factors-Enriching-Greens-Powder-with-Herbal-Phytosomes-10-6-oz-300-g/2625?at=0. All that I've underlined are claimed to be organic - more information noted line item by line item.
Also, all of these things that are "extracts"??? What parts were extracted and what parts were left in...and how do the parts that were 'kept' interact in the human body without the other parts that were extracted and thrown out? See this: http://home.roadrunner.com/~thadson/savelife/schulze/articles/06curedisaster4... (herbs, foods, it all applies).
These "8:1" type ratios on the 'extracts', indicate there is "eight parts of something" to "one part of something else"...any idea what either part actually IS?
This is a reply to # 1,464,128You are a good man, too. I'm impressed with you helping your mom & sister. I am sorry for taking a quick break from many things. I'll send you the detox schedule in the next few days. I am so so sorry.
With us deciding to just get married while it's warm and celebrate (the man's gift to me before starting the IP - it's such a sweet thing!) - planning and trying to get these little things on my to-do list out of the way really got truncated by falling down the stairs. lol
I'm helping it along but it sure is sore. So - I'm really glad you've reached out to Uny and she's giving you info. I remember when Trap was helping me via pm in the beginning and he said after several weeks that it was best for me to ask my questions on the boards because I'd get a better education and that way everyone could benefit from my questions that I didn't even know were reading them. Know who one of those people are that found my posts had similitude with their experiences/symptoms? ...you guessed it...little Sumner. :)
I'm thrilled!!!-
Re: I love it when women call me a "... Sumner
15 y
3,100
This is a reply to # 1,464,253Don't worry about taking a break! You are getting married! I am sooo sorry for overlooking that and not congratulating you!!! In my defense, you did kind of bury it in between paragraphs about healing. Are you psyched?
When is the big day?
- Re: Re: I love it when women call m... Miss Helfinger
15 y
3,049
This is a reply to # 1,464,500I am psyched. We just haven't done the ceremony. It's gonna be awesome. I'm wearing my mom's dress from 1972 (!!!) and it's on the anniversary of her porting out. That weekend's dates are very important for a number of reasons. It's also our five year anniversary. I'm juiced.
I'm also learning that my Mom was a bit smaller in the waist than I currently am. lol I've been doing the Uny juice fast, 1&2, cayenne - all the right stuffs. Just an inch - that's all that's needed....squeeeeeezzzeee.....
- Re: Re: I love it when women call m... Miss Helfinger
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