Supplements Question...YES or NO? 
aebjrm
15 y
1,956
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Hi all...
There's so much out there I read about supplements...can you give me advice please?
1. Multi - I can really only do liquid multis (can't swallow big pills)...I was using Buried Treasure High Potency...it has 7g Sugar in the form of white grape juice, apple juice, cherry juice, and raspberry juice (in its additional ingredients section). THEN, I read NOT to take multis b/c it helps FEED the candida, i.e. gives it strength?! Is this true? How am I to build up my system when I'm told to take a multi if it also is building up the candida?
2. Cal/Mag - Bluebonnet Lemon-flavored. 600mg mag to 1200 mg cal...3 g sugar. Is this OK?
3. Probiotics - Primadophilus Optima w/ 35 billion CFU. Is it OK to take while I'm adjusting to diet changes OR should I wait until AFTER I take antifungals, etc. I've heard it BOTH ways...take during ENTIRE treatment and / or take ONLY after yeast gone...and how do we know it's all gone anyways?
4. Emergen-C Lemon Flavor "Lite" (less sugar)...I take this for extra Vit C...but then I've read that extra Vit C creates problems in a body w/ candida.
I appreciate all your guidance, everyone! :)
P.S. Don't ask me for references 'cause I go on so many candida pages that they all seem to flow together after awhile. Just bear with me!
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- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,973
This is a reply to # 1,399,935
Hi all...
There's so much out there I read about supplements...can you give me advice please?
1. Multi - I can really only do liquid multis (can't swallow big pills)...I was using Buried Treasure High Potency...it has 7g sugar in the form of white grape juice, apple juice, cherry juice, and raspberry juice (in its additional ingredients section). THEN, I read NOT to take multis b/c it helps FEED the candida, i.e. gives it strength?! Is this true? How am I to build up my system when I'm told to take a multi if it also is building up the candida?Liquid multis are garbage to begin with. The water promotes oxidative destruction of the vitamins so there is likely going to be no vitamins left by the time you take it. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) for example is broken down in less than an hour in water. You are better off on getting most of your vitamins and minerals from a decent diet or herbs.
2. Cal/Mag - Bluebonnet Lemon-flavored. 600mg mag to 1200 mg cal...3 g sugar. Is this OK?Green leafy vegetables and seaweeds are great sources.
3. Probiotics - Primadophilus Optima w/ 35 billion CFU. Is it OK to take while I'm adjusting to diet changes OR should I wait until AFTER I take antifungals, etc. I've heard it BOTH ways...take during ENTIRE treatment and / or take ONLY after yeast gone...and how do we know it's all gone anyways?You cannot get rid of Candida completely. It is a natural part of the body. And killing the Candida will not work. The dead yeast just becomes food for the live yeast and you will end up with a rebound reaction. Focus on building your immune system instead. I have posted plenty of information on all this in this forum so I am not going to retype it all.
4. Emergen-C Lemon Flavor "Lite" (less sugar)...I take this for extra Vit C...but then I've read that extra Vit C creates problems in a body w/ candida.I would go with natural vitamin C sources since many also inhibit Candida. For example watercress, blueberries and amla berry.
I appreciate all your guidance, everyone! :)Advertisement
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- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... rainey03
15 y
1,869
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This is a reply to # 1,399,941Hi,
I have to disagree a bit...killing the candida is the only way I have made progress through this whole ordeal. I do agree it may feed the surviving yeast and this is why the process is soooo drawn out. However, killing the excess yeast in turn boosts the immune system as it has less invaders to fight and can concentrate it's efforts in creating balance again. Our bodies do not want us to be ill and fights tooth and nail to keep us balanced. For whatever reason you have become imbalanced, your immune system has been compromised, but you must kill the candida unless, of course, you are having current immune suppression from heavy metals, toxic mold/environmental issues, etc. With these, you must eliminate whatever it is that is causing the suppression and then begin killing the yeast. I am speaking from personal experience...real life and hundreds of hours of research. Best of luck to you!! - Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... Rick67
15 y
1,812
- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,718
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This is a reply to # 1,401,588I don't have a problem with it as long as people don't go overboard. And I prefer plant sources of iodine. I take dulse Iodine on occasion myself.- Thank you, BUT... aebjrm
15 y
1,672
This is a reply to # 1,401,589Thank you, but no one really answered my question.
Hveragerthi, I DO eat the majority of the foods you noted on a regular / daily basis; however, there is NO way for me to eat -- budget- and palate-wise during the course of a typical day's activities -- enough dark leafy greens, for instance, to reach the therapeutic levels found in a Cal / Mag supplement.
As I'm also a sufferer of hormonal migranes, I NEED the cal / mag supplement to give me the noted 1800 total mgs of supplementation on a CONSISTENT basis. My question was, with taking the brand I noted and the Sugar quantity, would that be OK in light of my yeast issues. Would it really harm me in the long run?
I asked about the multis b/c I heard that those are easier to assimilate. I never heard that they're garbage and heard many positive remarks from those I know taking them. Again, I was asking about the Sugar content.
I asked about a probiotic - if I should take it now while I'm still adjusting to diet changes or wait until I killed a bit of the candida off, and you gave the impression that probiotics are rather useless as we never kill the candida. (At least, you did not give a definitive answer to my specific question.) YET, you responded to someone else's question a few threads down about WHEN to properly TAKE the probiotic with no mention of what you stated to me about building immunity over taking it.
I don't mean to sound perturbed, but I asked the questions honestly not looking for a whole foods response. I DO feel I need the supplementation, as many others do as well, to COMPLIMENT my diet and the fact that NONE of us can be 100% perfect OR eat enough to match concentrated amounts found in the aforementioned.- Re: Thank you, BUT... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,695
This is a reply to # 1,401,779Advertisement
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Thank you, but no one really answered my question.
Hveragerthi, I DO eat the majority of the foods you noted on a regular / daily basis; however, there is NO way for me to eat -- budget- and palate-wise during the course of a typical day's activities -- enough dark leafy greens, for instance, to reach the therapeutic levels found in a Cal / Mag supplement.The reason the "therapeutic" levels recommended for calcium and magnesium are so high is because they are based on the ingestion of calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide. These are the most poorly absorbed forms of calcium and magnesium on the market. So the high doses by supplement are recommended on the false assumption that increasing the intake will force more absorption to compensate for the poor absorption. We do not need such high levels if our calcium and magnesium are derived from better sources such as foods.
As I'm also a sufferer of hormonal migranes, I NEED the cal / mag supplement to give me the noted 1800 total mgs of supplementation on a CONSISTENT basis.First of all the calcium can contribute to migraines. You want magnesium, not calcium to help prevent migraines. Migraines start with strong vasoconstriction, which is the "aura" people experience. Then the blood vessels rebound vasodilate leading to the inflammation that gives the migraine its other symptoms. The reason magnesium is used to treat migraines is because it acts like a natural calcium channel blocker. Calcium contracts muscles including blood vessels, which is why calcium channel blockers are used to lower blood pressure and treat migraines. They keep calcium from contracting the blood vessels. Increasing magnesium intake helps to keep calcium from contracting blood vessels by antagonizing the calcium. If you take calcium with the magnesium the magnesium will not work as well as it has to deal with antagonizing the calcium from the supplement as well as the calcium causing the blood vessel constriction.
My question was, with taking the brand I noted and the sugar quantity, would that be OK in light of my yeast issues. Would it really harm me in the long run?
Maybe the reason that you did not get a direct answer is because what you are asking is impossible to answer. Candida growth is not just governed by sugar. Alkalinity also plays a role in promoting Candida growth. And orally ingested sugars are not the only source of sugar the Candida can feed on. The body also generates its own sugars from proteins, fats, lactic acid, etc., a process known as gluconeogenesis.
I asked about the multis b/c I heard that those are easier to assimilate. I never heard that they're garbage and heard many positive remarks from those I know taking them. Again, I was asking about the sugar content.Again the sugar is only one factor.
As for the multivitamin oxidizers only work in the presence of moisture. As an example I can take a handful of powdered bleach and put it on a colored towel. The bleach will not touch the towel though until I add water, which allows the oxidation to take place. The same principle applies to vitamins. When water is added to the vitamin the process of oxidation is sped up, which quickly deteriorates the vitamin. To show you how fast this can occur back in high school we did an experiment with synthetic vitamin C commonly sold in health food stores. We took 3 samples and exposed one to light, one to heat, and one to water all of which promote oxidation. About 40 minutes later we tested all three samples for vitamin C. In all 3 cases the vitamin C was completely destroyed in that short time.
I asked about a probiotic - if I should take it now while I'm still adjusting to diet changes or wait until I killed a bit of the candida off, and you gave the impression that probiotics are rather useless as we never kill the candida. (At least, you did not give a definitive answer to my specific question.) YET, you responded to someone else's question a few threads down about WHEN to properly TAKE the probiotic with no mention of what you stated to me about building immunity over taking it.You cannot kill off the Candida because it is a natural part of the body. The probiotics will kill some of the Candida, but the primary effect of the probiotics is to generate acids (lactic acid, acetic acid, fatty acids) that keep the Candida in a yeast form rather than its pathogenic fungal form.
I am not sure of which post you are referring to. It could have been one of the posts discussing the many aspects of the immune system. Or it could have been someone asking about how to address Candida. Your question was not about how to get the Candida under control. Your question was when to take the probiotics, which I believe I answered.
I don't mean to sound perturbed, but I asked the questions honestly not looking for a whole foods response. I DO feel I need the supplementation, as many others do as well, to COMPLIMENT my diet and the fact that NONE of us can be 100% perfect OR eat enough to match concentrated amounts found in the aforementionedThat's fine, but I was trying to help you avoid wasting a lot of money on supplements that are not going to do much like liquid vitamins. I also write under the assumption that you are not the only person that is going to be reading this so I tend to expand on things for others to learn from as well.
- Re: Thank you, BUT... aebjrm
15 y
1,712
This is a reply to # 1,402,456
Hveragerthi, you seem very passionate about your knowledge of these things, and I do appreciate your response to my concerns (even if you think I don't!). Did you successfully heal your body of candida symptoms?
The reason the "therapeutic" levels recommended for calcium and magnesium are so high is because they are based on the ingestion of calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide. These are the most poorly absorbed forms of calcium and magnesium on the market. So the high doses by supplement are recommended on the false assumption that increasing the intake will force more absorption to compensate for the poor absorption. We do not need such high levels if our calcium and magnesium are derived from better sources such as foods.
First of all the calcium can contribute to migraines. You want magnesium, not calcium to help prevent migraines. Migraines start with strong vasoconstriction, which is the "aura" people experience. Then the blood vessels rebound vasodilate leading to the inflammation that gives the migraine its other symptoms. The reason magnesium is used to treat migraines is because it acts like a natural calcium channel blocker. Calcium contracts muscles including blood vessels, which is why calcium channel blockers are used to lower blood pressure and treat migraines. They keep calcium from contracting the blood vessels. Increasing magnesium intake helps to keep calcium from contracting blood vessels by antagonizing the calcium. If you take calcium with the magnesium the magnesium will not work as well as it has to deal with antagonizing the calcium from the supplement as well as the calcium causing the blood vessel constriction.Actually, the supplement I originally referenced had both cal and mag in the form of CITRATE. No mention anywhere on the label of carbonate or oxide.
As a sufferer of migraines for 15 years, this is the FIRST I have heard that Calcium may contribute to migraines. Did you actually mean if cal / mag ratios are out of whack? I have seen numerous conventional medicine headache specialists, as well as natural healers, acupuncturists / Chinese Medicine practitioners, raw foods counselors, and macrobiotics practitioners throughout the years and NEVER has any of them said Calcium can contribute to migraines. I'm curious of this - can you point me in the direction of studies you've read where this has been proven?
Why then, does viritually every book I get my hands on say to take the ratio of cal / mag that I noted intially - or even more. I can immediately reference my copy of the popular Prescription for Nutritional Healing 3rd edition by Balch and Balch, p. 519 recommending 2000mg cal to 1000 mg mag b/c these "minerals help to regular muscular tone and to transmit nerve impulses throughout the body and by the brain." What do YOU know that these well-known specialist and the aforementioned individuals I've seen through the years DON'T?
I do not get migraines with auras.
Maybe the reason that you did not get a direct answer is because what you are asking is impossible to answer. Candida growth is not just governed by sugar. Alkalinity also plays a role in promoting Candida growth. And orally ingested sugars are not the only source of sugar the Candida can feed on. The body also generates its own sugars from proteins, fats, lactic acid, etc., a process known as gluconeogenesis.
I agree, and know that already. I guess because the supplements I noted did not have additional items in them commonly associated with candida overgrowth, i.e. dairy, yeast, I focused on the sugar aspects. My apologies if I asked a stupid question.
As for the multivitamin oxidizers only work in the presence of moisture. As an example I can take a handful of powdered bleach and put it on a colored towel. The bleach will not touch the towel though until I add water, which allows the oxidation to take place. The same principle applies to vitamins. When water is added to the vitamin the process of oxidation is sped up, which quickly deteriorates the vitamin. To show you how fast this can occur back in high school we did an experiment with synthetic vitamin C commonly sold in health food stores. We took 3 samples and exposed one to light, one to heat, and one to water all of which promote oxidation. About 40 minutes later we tested all three samples for vitamin C. In all 3 cases the vitamin C was completely destroyed in that short time.
I can't remember high school as it was YEARS and YEARS ago, but thank you for the information. So, basically what you're saying is that LIQUID multis are junk...OR ALL MULTIS are junk? I concede that whole foods are ALWAYS better.
You cannot kill off the Candida because it is a natural part of the body. The probiotics will kill some of the Candida, but the primary effect of the probiotics is to generate acids (lactic acid, acetic acid, fatty acids) that keep the Candida in a yeast form rather than its pathogenic fungal form.I know it is a natural part of the body and only appears to be a problem when it overwhelms the good bacteria. In a Bacteriology Culture done, it was found I have ZERO beneficial bacteria. The amounts came out 0+ for Bifidobacter, E.coli, and Lactobacillus.
I am not sure of which post you are referring to. It could have been one of the posts discussing the many aspects of the immune system. Or it could have been someone asking about how to address Candida. Your question was not about how to get the Candida under control. Your question was when to take the probiotics, which I believe I answered.
No, it was a thread started six days ago called "Best way to take a probitioic supplement."
That's fine, but I was trying to help you avoid wasting a lot of money on supplements that are not going to do much like liquid vitamins. I also write under the assumption that you are not the only person that is going to be reading this so I tend to expand on things for others to learn from as well.Thanks. I'm all for saving money, but I also want to get well. The majority of your comments regarding supplementation are opposite ofvirtually ALL that I have read or been told in the last 15 years for the treatment of migraines and the last 10 years in the on-again / off-again treatment of candida.I suppose you would say that I am NOT well BECAUSE of what I just noted; however, I have NOT been actively taking a role in really treating the migraines or candida until these past 6-9 months. I also have gastritis, adrenal fatigue, PMS I deal with as well.That being said, how do I know what you're saying is accurate? Have you healed yourself of something? Do you have a biochemistry and / or medical background? Can you point me toward legitimate studies re: the poor quality of liquid multis, the fact that calcium causes migraines, etc.?I am very curious to get to the truth about these things.- Re: Thank you, BUT... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,898
This is a reply to # 1,402,624
The reason the "therapeutic" levels recommended for calcium and magnesium are so high is because they are based on the ingestion of calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide. These are the most poorly absorbed forms of calcium and magnesium on the market. So the high doses by supplement are recommended on the false assumption that increasing the intake will force more absorption to compensate for the poor absorption. We do not need such high levels if our calcium and magnesium are derived from better sources such as foods.
First of all the calcium can contribute to migraines. You want magnesium, not calcium to help prevent migraines. Migraines start with strong vasoconstriction, which is the "aura" people experience. Then the blood vessels rebound vasodilate leading to the inflammation that gives the migraine its other symptoms. The reason magnesium is used to treat migraines is because it acts like a natural calcium channel blocker. Calcium contracts muscles including blood vessels, which is why calcium channel blockers are used to lower blood pressure and treat migraines. They keep calcium from contracting the blood vessels. Increasing magnesium intake helps to keep calcium from contracting blood vessels by antagonizing the calcium. If you take calcium with the magnesium the magnesium will not work as well as it has to deal with antagonizing the calcium from the supplement as well as the calcium causing the blood vessel constriction.Actually, the supplement I originally referenced had both cal and mag in the form of CITRATE. No mention anywhere on the label of carbonate or oxide.
I was not referring to what you were taking. You mentioned having to get "therapeutic levels". I was merely pointing out that this varies according to the form of calcium/magnesium being taken. Acidiifed forms, such as what you are taking are better absorbed and therefore lower doses are required for a "therapeutic level".
As a sufferer of migraines for 15 years, this is the FIRST I have heard that Calcium may contribute to migraines. Did you actually mean if cal / mag ratios are out of whack?
Levels can be out of whack for a variety of reasons including metabolic disorders and supplementation without balance. So yes, I guess you can term it that way.
I have seen numerous conventional medicine headache specialists, as well as natural healers, acupuncturists / Chinese Medicine practitioners, raw foods counselors, and macrobiotics practitioners throughout the years and NEVER has any of them said Calcium cancontribute to migraines. I'm curious of this - can you point me in the direction of studies you've read where this has been proven?
The principle is pretty straight forward. We know migraines are triggered by initial vasoconstriction. And calcium constricts blood vessels. This is why I mentioned the fact that calcium channel blockers are used to treat migraines. Being that these drugs work by blocking calcium then how would they work otherwise since the only thing they can do is prevent vasoconstriction by calcium?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19104145?ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSys...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16775382?ordinalpos=106&itool=EntrezSy...
"Ca2+ channel dysfunction is now known to be the basis for several neurological and muscle disorders such as migraine, ataxia, and periodic paralysis."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18705538?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSyst...
"These results have made us think that magnesium is a beneficial agent in prophylaxis of migraine without aura and might work with both vascular and neurogenic mechanisms."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12110110?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSyst...
"Magnesium sulphate has been used in the acute treatment of migraines; some studies found it to be a highly effective medication in the acute control of migraine pain and associated symptoms."
Here is a link from a migraine help site:
http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/magnesium-migraines.html
"However, when taking magnesium for migraine don't buy a calcium/magnesium blend. If you're taking a calcium supplement, take it at another time of day. It can interfere with the benefits of the magnesium for migraine."
http://www.lef.org/protocols/health_concerns/migraine_01.htm
"The cause of this excitability is thought to be abnormal brain chemistry, especially in the relationship between calcium and magnesium. During periods of excitability, calcium flows from the extracellular fluid to the intracellular space, resulting in vasoconstriction. Therefore, anything that blocks the flow of calcium or restores the balance of magnesium to calcium would be helpful in mitigating migraine. In fact, studies have shown calcium channel blockers, which block the flow of calcium into cells, can successfully prevent migraine attacks (Bartleson JD 1999)."
Why then, does viritually every book I get my hands on say to take the ratio of cal / mag that I noted intially - or even more.
Maybe because the authors do not understand how things work in the body? Maybe they have not looked at the studies?
I can immediately reference my copy of the popular Prescription for Nutritional Healing 3rd edition by Balch and Balch, p. 519 recommending 2000mg cal to 1000 mg mag b/c these "minerals help to regular muscular tone and to transmit nerve impulses throughout the body and by the brain."
I have always hated that book anyway. Their recomemndations are generally based on their connections to the companies selling the supplements they recommend. So they frequently fail to recomemend the best choices. And if they are such experts then why were they unaware of the vasoconstrictive effects of calcium and the role of vasoconstriction in migraines?
What do YOU know that these well-known specialist and the aforementioned individuals I've seen through the years DON'T?
One thing I have noticed in medicine is that they fail to use some common sense the vast majority of the time. Even without the studies that are readily available, common sense should tell them that constricting blood vessels with calcium is not a good idea when the problem is caused by vasoconstriction in the first place. That is like hitting someone's foot with a sledge hammer to treat foot pain!
I do not get migraines with auras.
Everyone is not going to have the same symptoms in response to a problem. For example just because someone is hypothyroid this does not mean they are going to gain weight.
I can't remember high school as it was YEARS and YEARS ago, but thank you for the information. So, basically what you're saying is that LIQUID multis are junk...OR ALL MULTIS are junk?
It was years and years ago for me as well. It is just one of those weird experiments we did that stuck in my mind. Probably because of my interest in health back then as well. The problem though is with liquid vitamins. Minerals are not destroyed by oxidation, so liquid minerals are not affected. Vitamins though are unstable and are readily broken down by oxidation. Muiti's in a dry form (tablet, capsule, powder) are more stable as long as they are kept out of light and away from high heat. The whole absorbs better thing is a sales tactic. A powder swallowed with water is generally very soluble and will absorb just as quick.
I also have gastritis,
Ginger can help. Also muciliginous herbs like marshmallow root or slippery elm.
adrenal fatigue,
Adaptogenic herbs, vitamin C and pantothenic acid sources build the adrenals. Avoid caffeine and other stimulants. Stay away from steroidal medications, and keep your stress to a minimum. This will be easier as you build up your adrenals, which produce your anti-stress hormones.
PMS I deal with as well.
Building the adrenals will help here. Suma is particularly helpful as an adaptogen and hormone balancer. It would also be helpful to use bitters, which cleanse the liver. This will help the liver to detoxify excess hormones more efficiently . B vitamins are also essential for the detoxification of hormones by the liver.
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- Hveragerthi...your thoughts? aebjrm
15 y
1,810
This is a reply to # 1,403,279Thank you!
Went to the store yesterday.
I did NOT purchase a multi.
I purchased a Mag ONLY powered form that I took last evening before bed.
I also purchased Panth Acid 500mg. I will take 1-2 per day.
I regularly take Emergen-C. 3-4x day. Lite version. Lemon-Lime. 1000mg each. Until I find something better, it DOES appear to give me an energy boost.
I take DGL for my gastritis when it flares up.
Yes, I drink Raspberry Leaf tea, alternating with Dandelion tea and Pau D'Arco tea. No Sugar unless stevia or agave nectar, and rarely honey.
Do you have any other ideas re: Vit C supplements? I purchased Ester-C once and HATED it. I DO like the Emergen-C better.
I take a Doctors for Nutrition Greens Plus drink every day and regularly juice carrots, granny smith apples, and celery. I also do protein shakes with Premier Research Labs-brand Quantum Whey Protein mixed with unsweetened almond milk and organic strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries.
I DO still eat meat, though I preferred how I felt on a pesco-vegetarian diet - gastritis disappeared, anxiety / panic attacks vanished, BP normalized. HOWEVER, most candida protocols say veg diet full of too much Sugar (i.e. beans). What are your thoughts on this?
Any feedback on what I'm doing?
Curious: What is your take on enemas? I asked this earlier in a thread about whether or not they work, etc., and am interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.
- Hveragerthi...your thoughts? aebjrm
15 y
1,810
- Re: Thank you, BUT... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,898
- Re: Thank you, BUT... aebjrm
15 y
1,712
- Re: Thank you, BUT... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,695
- Thank you, BUT... aebjrm
15 y
1,672
- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,718
- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... rainey03
15 y
1,869
- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... seth2958
15 y
1,802
This is a reply to # 1,399,935What he said, except I haven't researched liquid vitamins. I had read the opposite, but I don't know enough to have a position. =-)
- Re: Supplements Question...YES or NO... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,973
