Passionate worship is delightful to the Lord's heart.

R: Ed, please don't really become the mocking, dancing, giggly girl in this video. At times you do sound like her and other times you seem to have better reasoning. You have been shown what is terribly wrong with NAR, IHOP and Bethel...

E: Refreshed, this girl seems to be a universalist, seeming to believe that everybody goes to heaven no matter what. Don't fall into the same pattern as vektek and thorn and promote this video and this girl's beliefs and her continual laughter as something everyone who believes that the gifts and apostles and God's Living voice are for today all believe. Do you have any idea whatsoever how unique and different each person who is not cessationist is in their doctrinal beliefs and in their behaviors? In their levels of maturity in Christ, in their levels of how much they love the Lord, live in Spirit and Truth, their level of Truth they are walking in as compared to deceptions they hold to, the level to which they live as dead to old nature and as born of Spirit new creations in Christ, no longer sinners but saints? Like Thorn and vektek, you seem to be jumping on their bandwagon and lumping every non-cessationist who has doctrine you don't agree with or has behavior that is odd into this "NAR" category, this extremely informal movement that has no members, no headquarters and no annual meeting. Did you even read the c. peter. wagner letter i posted here which might help to balance out your thinking as to what nar even is?: //www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2200809#i

Try not to get all caught up in the hysteria of nar bashing that vektek is so swept up in before you even really know what it is. Also, i'll repeat this again that i certainly do not agree with everything anybody associated with nar says, teaches or does, nor am i a member or on any mailing list, what i am primarily saying is that as a loose knit group with no members, they at least seem to have a correct common belief that the gifts are for today, that God's living voice is for today and that God never implemented a pastor centric system that excludes apostles. I have made it very clear multiple times that it is an imperfect system as is the conglomeration of pastor centric believers.. and since men have touched them both, it and the people associated with it have not been perfect. I don't believe that everybody "commissioned" as an apostle from within the loosely knit nar influence is actually an apostle truly commissioned by the Lord Jesus, but that some certainly are. The many false conclusions you have seemingly drawn about me would suggest that you have not read my previous words on this subject.

r: I realize you are trying to hold on to what still seems good, but please realize that many churches are sinking ships these days.. Don't go down with the wreckage. I know you are not a member of that church, so it may not seem like a real issue to you, but you are promoting them to people who may not know what danger lurks there. Please use wisdom.

e: I agree it is good to address error and excesses in the church, both within the strong delusion of cessationism that has blinded maybe a half billion people as well as excesses within charismania such as toke the ghost and i do not believe as this girl believes, nor walk around in continual laughter as she does, so you seem to be utterly and willfully blind to who i am and to what i believe and it's buffoonish for you to tell me that i sometimes sound or act like this girl. Try to keep your head in the game. Stick to truth and don't do as thorn and vektek have done by linking me to every odd person in a video as if i believe in what they are doing and by throwing out the baby with the dirty bathwater.

As to some churches being sinking ships and not going down with the wreckage, i am a servant of the Lord from within the entire body of Christ. I have different reasons for going to different churches than most have and i certainly use the immense discernment the Lord has given me everywhere i go, with every teaching i hear, with every manifestation i see. I would never be a member of a church, clinging to it for dear life in such a way that i would ever "sink with a sinking ship". For you to even warn me of this is more evidence that you don't know me at all.

As far as promoting bethel and ihop, let me make it very clear to you again since you seem to have missed it in several previous posts, i believe the worship music from bethel is great and i particularly like Laura Hackett from ihop. The worshipful environment of deep and passionate love for Lord Jesus is very powerful at bethel. I have never endorsed the teaching there or anywhere else and have always said that i am not in agreement with all of the teaching and that not every manifestation in these places is of the Holy Spirit since i have witnessed some false ones personally along with many that were true. Me not agreeing with every word of every teaching is also the case in every other church i have ever visited.

So let me make a blanket warning that every time someone goes to any church, be very discerning of everything, know that there is God's voice and opposing voices, true teaching and false teaching however nice and however sincere the man seems, know that there are God's gifts and manifestations and opposing ones and don't throw out the baby with the dirty bathwater. Don't think for a minute that you are safe in a cessationist church just because nothing exciting is happening. If you are a regular attender in such a place, you are already in a strong delusion, in a false church with very bad spirits controlling the place, no matter how boring it is, no matter how free of all outward manifestations both from unclean influences and from God and no matter how nice the people seem. If anyone has a chance to visit bethel, i would highly encourage this, but do so with the same discernment you should be using in any other church you visit. Tweet