Would really like your advice Hveragerthi.

Dear Hveragerthi,

I hope this is the right forum to post this, if not, I apologize. We batted heads on another thread. It was all based on a misunderstanding. I have nothing to hide, so here is the link:

//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1609470#i


MAYBE because the Ashwagandha I was taking was a standardized extract (Sensoril, 8% withanolide conjugates and 32% oligosaccharides), it lead to severe thyrotoxicosis for me. I read a post that where you stated to avoid standardized extracts of herbs, and I cannot agree more. It makes complete sense. Either way I cannot try Ashwagandha again, because it wrecked my CNS. My adrenoreceptors are very sensitive, and even a mild stimulation of them, due to mild hyperthyroidism will drive the net effect of my adrenaline levels through the roof. What happened to me was about 20 times worse. Anyway that's over and done with, and I hope you were not offended by my response. If so, I apologize. Don't bother answering the questions, because they are reposted here.

I have read some of your posts and you are VERY knowledgeable. I kindly ask you to help me out with questions that I have. I am dysautonomic as my HPA axis is stuck in the fight or flight state 24/7. I experience extreme levels of anxiety. I also have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis which was contracted due to a naturopath giving me raw thyroid glandular when I was hyperthyroid. Do not even ask why I took it without doing my own research. I was young, stupid, and too trusting. I am a lot wiser now. I must state that my adrenals are not weak. My cortisol levels are high, which indicates my adrenals are pumping out too much epinephrine and norepinephrine. Numerous twenty-four urine collections have proven my cortisol levels to be always elevated. I am also on a beta blocker for hypertension which helps a lot to reduce the net effect of adrenaline in my system, and proves that my adrenaline leves are high, which is what I feel. My thyroid is currently in a normal state.

In the past, I have used adaptogens with great success. I just did not use them long enough in my opinion to achieve longer term results. I am looking for adaptogens that are inhibitory, and possibly 1 or 2 that are mildly stimulatory (I can always adjust the dose if they are very stimulatory), however I need something that will not prevent me from taking a nap anywhere from 6-12 hours after taking it, as a daily nap is critical to my functionality. I also do not want anything that could stimulate my immune system to attack my thyroid.

I have found that adaptogens have knocked out that constant fight or flight feeling, at least through the work day. Specifically, I was taking a proprietary blend of Siberian Ginseng, Echinopanax Elatum, Manchurian Thorn Tree, Hawthorn, and Schisandra by Vitamin Research Products. It helped dramatically, more than any medication, but the Siberian Ginseng MAY have taken away my ability to nap after work, which is crucial for me. I am not sure, because it is possible that my thyroid could have become more hyper, or my food intolerances could have become worse at the time causing more anxiety. I do suspect it was the Siberian Ginseng or the combination of Siberian Ginseng, Echinopanax Elatum, and Manchurian Thorn Tree that had the dramatic relaxing effect on me, which is what I am desperately seeking. I am not a textbook case in any way, but I know you have the expertise, and I feel the right combination of adaptogens will dramatically help me and possibly cure me.

I eat mostly a whole foods diet, I exercise 3-4 times a week, and meditate twice daily. I consume no caffeine, alcohol, or tobacco. I supplement adequately, but my list is too long. Nothing I supplement with has affected me adversely. I currently take 3.125 mg of Carvedilol (mixed alpha1/beta1, beta2 antagonist) twice daily, 30mg of Cymbalta (reduced from 60mg with Schisandra and Jiaogulan), and 10-15 mg of Valium per day. Therefore I have the following questions:

1) Would a low dose of Siberian Ginseng help to correct my adrenal and HPA axis function, without overstimulating me, or my immune system? If you believe so, what would an appropriate dose be?

2) What are your thoughts on Echinopanax Elatum and Manchurian Thorn Tree?

3) I am currently taking 1180 mg of dried Schisandra (not a standardized extract), once a day. It appears to only have somewhat mild inhibitory effects on me. Would I be able to double the dose without adverse effects (stimulatory, Hashimoto's), and what would be an appropriate dose in your opinion?

4) I am taking Licorice Root as well, however it is deglycyrrhinizated, as I was apprehensive about the potential for hypertensive effects. I now know that the glycyrrhin is probably the most active ingredient. As I understand, it delays the breakdown of cortisol. Since my cortisol levels are already high, is this something I would want. I am thinking that if it delays the breakdown of cortisol, it will force my adrenals to produce less cortisol, and give them a well deserved rest. Hopefully this will reduce the amount of epinephrine and norepinephrine as well. Kind of like a reverse feedback loop.

5) Is Hawthorn an adaptogen, and worth taking.

6) It seems that some people recommend Rhodiola for anxiety, while others do not. What is your take on it, and if you recommend it what would be an appropriate dose.

7) I am taking Jiaogulan by Paradise Herbs. It contains a 12:1 concentrated extract. My dosage is 250 mg twice daily, which is equivalent to 3000 mg of the fresh whole herb, twice daily. The raw herb they use naturally contains 30% gypenosides. Am I taking an appropriate dose?

8) What are your thoughts on Bacopa? Does it have adaptogenic properties or at least anxiolytic properties?

9) How long can each of the herbs previously discussed be taken, and how should they be taken (e.g. time on, and then time off, etc.)?

10) Are there any other adaptogens, herbs, or even supplements that you would recommend to help my CNS return to a normal homeostatic state?

Anything that is not clear, I will clarify. If you would please answer my questions, I would be more than happy to purchase my herbs from the place that you represent. Please provide a link. Thank you. I sincerely appreciate any help that you can provide and you do a great service here.