Re: Just Noticed New Forum - Liver flush evidence

I have never seen the forum so I just checked it out. I see that some of my old posts were cross posted there though.

Here is a post that I really question:

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1398382#i


This person claims to have gotten 2 1/2 jars full of "gallstones" from the first flush.  How big do they think the gallbladder is?!!!  The gallbladder is not likely going to hold even one glass full of gallstones let alone 2 1/2 glass fulls. Then they say they got the same amount a month later in a second flush. Again, the gallbladder is not this large.  On top of that gallstones are not going to form that fast.  Both of these facts prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that these were not gallstones.

Here is another post that proves these "stones" are being formed in the intestines.

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=94243#i


These can be formed through several mechanisms, which explains the different colored "stones". The soap stones are formed as a chemical reaction between the cholesterol, lemon juice and alkalis in the intestines, which form light colored stones.  Green stones can form from a reaction between sterols in the olive oil and cholesterol from the bile salts, the bile making them green.   As the sterols from the olive oil bind with cholesterol from food and bile salts, bits of other material can get trapped in the complex.  This explains how the pulp got stuck in the "stone".


Then there was this post:

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1076187#i


"1. The stone I kept was tested and found to be Bile."

This backs up what I have been saying.  The cholesterol-rich bile is released in to the intestines where it reacts with the sterols from the olive oil.  This creates a sterol-cholesterol complex that resembles gallstones.  The green bile is what gives these faux "stones" their color.  So how do these "stones" differ from real gallstones?  Well for starters most real gallstones are composed of calcified cholesterol. The only exception are the rare pigment stones.

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=168264#i


"I had done 5 flushes, and each time I released many stones. I decided after the last two flushes to save them and take them into the doctor to be analyzed since he never believed in flushes. He said he had them sent off to a lab. The report came back as it not being Gallstones of any kind.

After that I took what I had saved to a gastroenterologist who is very open minded to the liver flush. She sent them away too, and again I got back the same report.
These stones look just like all of the other pictures on here of other's stones.

I wasn't satisfied so I did one more flush to see if I would release anymore. I had around 38 of them. This time I paid good money to go see a naturopathic doctor who is a firm believer in liver flushing. I had her send them away for testing.

The report came back that it wasn't a stone of any kind..... again."

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=711999#i


"I did two flushes and i did collect some stones in my first flush to show to my PCP.She did send them to the lab for tests.My test results came today .The results showed that the stones does not contain any cholestrol or bile stones and they are not gallstones."

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=711943#i

"Anyway, I was curious, so I called my doc's office today and asked what the "stone" I sent in was actually composed of. The nurse read the report, which said the sample was composed of fats, protein, and other (wish I knew what the "other" was) and that the sample contained "no granular substances that gallstones are composed of". "

These are also interesting:

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=413022#i


http://www.nafisatejparmd.com/tejparinfogallbladder.html


"What about the liver or gallbladder flushes I see on the Internet?
If you search for 'gallbladder' or 'gallstones' on the Internet, no doubt you will come across claims of ‘flushes’ in which people see numerous ‘gallstones’ eliminated from the body.

This information, though well-intended, is false. Most flushes have you swallow some combination that contains a lot of olive oil, grapefruit (lemon or apples and apple cider) and sometimes Epsom salts. They claim you may have a lot of nausea, but will see numerous ‘stones’ floating in the toilet the next day. You may indeed see what look like small stonelike objects, but these are NOT gallstones. (Gallstones actually sink if placed in water.) High school chemistry students know that acid (from citrus or other fruit) and fat (olive oil) create a kind of “soap stone” (potassium carboxylates) through a process known as saponification. That is what the 'flushes' produce. These ‘flushes’ will not dissolve or eliminate your gallstones. In fact, it more often than not, triggers a major 'attack' because of all the oil you drink!

In the well-known British medical journal, The Lancet, a group of physicians from New Zealand examined the content of these ‘stones’ from these 'flushes' and reported the following:

"We conclude, therefore, that these green "stones" resulted from the action of gastric lipases on the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid). This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice contains a high concentration of potassium) or "soap stones".
The Lancet Volume 365, Number 9468 16 April 2005"

And as much as I hate Quackwatch, Barrett does bring up a lot of good points including many I have brought up:

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html


Bottom line as far as I am concerned is that if anyone wants to prove to me that these are all gallstones then they are going to have to prove to me that the "stones" people are photographing, which some exceed 100mm in size are capable of passing through bile ducts that can only be dilated a few millimeters even with the magnesium. To me explaining this miracle is more important than lab analysis of any supposed "stones".