I feel a need to restart the thread with a summary of previous posting. The multiple threads and various bantering makes following the main argument more difficult.
I shall post traderdrew's assertions and comments, then I shall post southern_reckoner's assertions and comments.
If traderdrew agrees to the two summary posts, then we can continue the debate. If there are any disagreements with information in the summaries, then we can hash out the disagreements and continue the debate.