Re: My daughter - Depression, SSRIs - Booted from College

Couldn't help but read the post and react.

Similar situation with my son, and his mother. Except we did not live together. Me with son or mother. Volatile situation.

I tried since he was in kindergarten to affect things for the positive. The mother did everything she could to poison the environment. I can say that n a he said, she said thing because after years of lying and obfuscation, social services finally realized she was lying to me, to them, to her son, and herself, and she has been ordered to pay back thousands of dollars of extorted child support. Not a nice woman.

The best thing I ever did was... stop trying. I explained in direct terms, when I could get a word in edgewise, what I was doing and why. The son had learned how to play people off each other, a skilled acquired from his mother.

The one thing I would not tolerate is being lied to. So when a lie surfaced, I would not even allow the sentence to finish. Addressing it on the spot. The trains would essentially grind to a halt because I would not tolerate a lie. Lots of trains didn't move, for years.

I was not angry or emotional. Just crystalline direct with son, and his mother. He finally turned around when he gradually understood that he was following in his mother's shoes. And that was a poor career choice. He struck out on his own, tried the Marines, failed, and has continued to bounce. But the one thing he knows is I am totally there, and truths are discussed. There is no wishy washy-ness about our relationship. The mother has long since burned all bridges with family, so that is no longer on the distraction radar. He is still floundering, but what he has learned is one can operate through lying, or, one can speak truthfully and directly, regardless of how good or bad something is.

He now tells me that I was right. Had I caved in on all the requirements, concessions, the BS, that was being foisted on me by the mother, then son, all I would have done was enable. I eradicated emotions from the mix. Communications were calm, direct, unwavering, consistent. And, I simply did not agree with or buy into the machinations that were attempted by mother, then son.

This is a long way of saying, dude, the content of your message is replete with wishy-washy language. I can only imagine the conversations you get into, and cave in on. You are being played. And you are letting it happen. You are tentative about your daughter's alcohol problem? What, are you fvcking nuts? What in the hell are you waiting for? A sign? For starters, from what you are saying, start there. Tap dancing around that, by engaging in blood works ups is a ruse. I know. My mother's son was all about going to the next and next and next psychotherapist when my son acted out, which was constantly. It was a total distraction. When I finally wised up and said, no more, things began to change. People were forced to own up to their actions instead of sliding them off into more talk talk talk. Endless amounts of money were throw down the drain, until I stopped these bad and useless behaviors that were nothing more than distractions from the real truth.

You are getting played, and I would suspect it makes it easier for you to tolerate yourself in this as well. How do you get your wife to buy into an alternative solution? You don't. You don't because it sounds like you have been engaged in a lengthy tap dance. If it hasn't gotten across by now, neither you or your wife or your daughter will 'get it'. I think you are barking up the total wrong tree. The question I would submit on a fist read of this is not how can you approach your wife and daughter on things, but how can you get ourself to tell yourself the truth. If a truth was that strong, you would not be asking these questions in this way.

The only thing that worked in my situation was to stop trying because it damn well had not worked up to that point. And I was having to deal with a tremendous amount of heat from my family as well. Everyone knew better than how to solve the problem. I finally said "ok, go ahead. Since you know better then me, solve it." To a person, my mother, father, brother and sister came to me privately and independently and apologized years later. They had no idea. It was only when I handed them the hammer and said, you have a better way, go ahead.

This has grown to a really long post, but the total short answer to your three questions is, stop. You are asking the wrong questions. How do you get them to buy into your approach? Dude, you don't. Since it hasn't worked so far, you don't. I would calmly explain your position, the why, am sure you will get eschewed and interrupted a zillion times, but the point being when any or all parties want to give your ideas a go, let them notify you. If they think they know best, have at it. I would certainly not support behaviors that included driving, auto insurance, and a few dozen other things I have no doubt you are paying through the nose for. The place were I would start is by telling the truth to yourself first.

The whole thing sounds wishy washy. If you have to ask yourself if you should say something about a known alcohol or drug problem, dude, you are way lost. I would absolutely cut off support of anything that allows that behavior. It does not have to contain anger, or point proving. Just STOP. But not before leaving the door open to "when one or both want to come to your side and try", you're there. But you do realize you have articulated two elements that are total show stoppers to resolving anything: direct truth to them and yourself, and; employing of distractions of all parties that promotes broken communications. My son and I have a great relationship now because I spoke the truth, I was direct, I was always there, but I did not waver in my direct resolve. If people think they have a better way, by all means, go ahead. But I think you need to have a conversation with yourself first because if you wonder if you should address an alcohol issue with your 22 year old daughter, wow. That is not even a question.

Personally, I am a proponent of an outward bound approach. One of the best things my pop ever did for me was take my smart ass 14 year old attitude and go for a hike. The hike spanned 4 days, and went for 60 miles. A whole lot of things started to get corrected when you got up with the sun, went to bed with the sun, and in between certain things had to happen like preparing food, staying warm, and walking, because no one else was going to do that for me. I also 10000% agree that if your daughter has nutritional issues, sure, alcohol and drugs are gonna screw things up big time. But I guarantee that if all your family does is sit around and try and talk about how to solve things, ain't never gonna get solved. Get out of the damn house. Go somewhere. Do something. I doubt any amount of talk and rationalizing will get anything done from the tone of your questions. Take your daughter on a 50 mile hike. It might do all three of you good.

I know this is a harsh blast. But the characteristics of your quandary, I have seen all too often. In almost all cases, no amount of talk, in the same home, where all prior talks have failed, will solve things. If anything, it is just twirling the mix around in a big circle, and nothing happens. Everyone is in one mass distraction. I almost always see that it takes an outside influence to stir things up. Doing stuff outside is about the only way. But I have to say... you may want to start with telling yourself the truth first. It does not sound like you can do that, yet.

Let the slings and arrows start. I know this is coming off as a big blowhard blast. It is intended that way. Mainly because I was in the same situation, for years, and it was not until I stopped trying because my way of trying did not work. And regardless of whether I was right or wrong, telling the concerned parties my position, then backing off and waiting for them to show back up. I underatnd I wa a much a part of the problem as they were. So I removed myself from the problem by stopping. Amazingly, my son eventually did. But all the talk in the world went no where, and a lot of energy and finances were squandered. It was only when I stopped, that personal truths were given a chance to be realized. I'd hand your wife and daughter the hammer and let them manage things for awhile. Just be there. But I sure as hell would not allow someone to drive, or laze around my domain feeling sorry for themselves. Even if there is a chemical imbalance which it sounds like there might be... whatever you are doing ain't working. Stop. Get out of the house. Do something besides talk. Go pick up a hobby. Stop fixating. And tell yourself the truth. From the sounds of it, you are as much a contributor to the rut as everyone else. And I know you want to help your daughter, but this might be a newsflash... you might be a far larger part of the problem than them. Not being able to talk directly to a 22 year old woman about a potential alcohol issue is amazing to me. That you even have tho muse about that is being lost. But then again, I am very truthful, calm, and laser direct. You may want to try that. Good luck. And I am sure I will get shot full of arrows, but that is ok...

Flames on...