Re: MMS based upon some faulty science!

Please note that phrases in caps are Jim Humble's response.

Subject: Miracle-Mineral-Supplement based upon some faulty science!
Username: #96341
Date: 4/26/2008 6:39:14 PM   message viewed 176 times
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I have been asked to repost the following here as an eye opener for those risking their safety and health on experimenting with a POISONOUS substance

the following statements are just a few that are found on the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement site and/or purported by others to "explain" how and why Miracle-Mineral-Supplement works yet it is plain "bad science" --my degrees in developmental bio and the decades spent teaching pre-med and nursing students as well as even more years as a Science ed consultant compels me to refute the following:

1.- false statement: only "bad" microbes are 'negatively' charged and/or pathogens cant survive alkaline environments..
we must not be content to repeat what we have heard or seen written by those selling anything. ANY intro level microbio text will tell you that the following DEADLY pathogens exist and thrive in alkaline environments: enterococcus, erysipelous bacteria, listeria and yes even fungus like aspergillus which has become deadly to many. therefore stating only 'good' bacteria are alkaline is FALSE- also, ingesting an alkaline will make these pathogens more likely to cause harm, NOT "kill" them.

1... Mr. User #96341 I, (JimHumble), HAVE NEVER MADE ANY SUCH STATEMENTS. MMS IS VERY ACIDIC WHEN IT ENTERS THE BODY. CHLORINE DIOXIDE, ONCE RELEASED, WORKS IN ANY ENVIRONMENT FROM HIGHLY ACIDIC TO HIGHLY ALKALINE. THAT'S FROM pH 5 to pH 10. LET ME SUGGEST THAT YOU READ MY BOOK AND MY FURTHER ANSWERS BELOW. AND DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE INTERNET ON CHLORINE DIOXIDE- JimHumble


-According to experiments by Weichselbaum et al " when gastric fluids become alkaline microbes do NOT lose their pathogenic properties"...

WELL, I'D HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I AGREE WITH WEICHSELBAUM ET AL, BUT THEN I NEVER SAID ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY -- JimHumble.


-also the info re : oxygen and microbes--there are plenty of microbes you DONT want harmed by the increased oxygen thats supposedly occurring and still more "bad" ones left UNharmed

NO, NO, MR. 96341, THERE IS NO INCREASE OF OXYGEN WITH MMS. NONE AT ALL. REALLY, YOU SHOULD READ MY BOOK OR LOOK IT UP ON THE WEB. CHLORINE DIOXIDE IS THE OXIDIZER. IT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN OXYGEN. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO VALUABLE. OXYGEN IS A STRONG OXIDIZER AND CHLORINE DIOXIDE IS A WEAK OXIDIZER.--JimHumble


-2. False statement:Good bacteria cant be harmed-- what about GOOD bacteria that thrive in ACID environments ( almost all of the probiotics like lactobacillus). What is ingesting an alkaline doing to THEM??? while many cant make it past stomach acids, some DO and others do well in the slightly less acid but NOT alkaline GI tract, beyond the stomach, as well. if ANY bacteria or viruses are harmed, so too will the "good" bacteria.

2...STILL WRONG! MMS IS ACIDIC WHEN IT ENTERS THE BODY, BUT THE CHLORINE DIOXIDE THAT DOES THE WORK IS NOT ACIDIC. IN FACT, I CAN SAY THAT ACID OR ALKALINE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. READ MY BOOK. SORRY, DON'T MEAN TO PUT YOU DOWN, IT'S JUST THAT I AM REALLY TIRED OF ALL THE NEGATIVE STUFF BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A CLUE. FURTHER DETAILS ARE GIVEN BELOW.--JimHumble


3. False statement- harmless salts form-well salts ARE forming BUT the falsesness lies in their usefulness- the common salt thats forming?? mostly right in the gut .hence the nausea- any scientific evidence that ANY of the active CLO2 stuff thats making you so nauseated getting anywhere into the blood??? I have seen NONE. The mammal body is pretty good at keeping things where they belong, why would such a toxic substance as ClO2 be allowed to get into the blood at high enough quantity? Id love to SEE blood and intracellular levels of ClO2 after ingesting this stuff

so too Id like to see the proof of its ability to get into the RBC--the membrane system makes it difficult at best for larger and unfamiliar molecules to simply cross the barrier membranes.

3...STILL WRONG MR. 96341. THE MOST SALT THAT IS EVER CREATED BY A DOSE OF MMS IS 10 MG. THAT'S LESS THAN 1/2 OF A MATCH HEAD. CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT AMOUNT OF SALT MAKING ANYONE SICK OR NAUSEOUS. YOU CAN'T EVEN TASTE IT IN 1/2 GLASS OF WATER. YOU GET ABOUT 10 TIMES THAT FROM EATING A WEINER. WHY DOES CHLORINE DIOXIDE GET IN THE BLOOD? READ MY BOOK. THE RED BLOOD CELLS CANNOT TELL CHLORINE DIOXIDE FROM OXYGEN. AND YES, I HAVE BEEN USING ONE OF THE BEST DARK FIELD MICROSCOPES NOW AVAILABLE IN THE STATE OF THE ART. IT COST $38,000 AND IT IS VERY GOOD.-- JimHumble


4. False statement- the CLO2 deposits onto stomach walls where it enters the body like other nutrients--well first off nutrients leave the gut via small intestines NOT the stomach, secondly the acids in the stomach would react with the CLO2 anyway.and make those SALTS long before it leaves the stomach--add HCL to your solutions and see what happens!

4...WRONG AGAIN MR. 96341. SORRY, I'D APOLOGIZE IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WERE NOT DOING SO MUCH DAMAGE. YOU DESTROY THE CHANCES OF THE MANY WHO BELIEVE YOU. FIRST, THE STOMACH WALLS DO INDEED ADSORB QUITE A FEW NUTRIENTS. SECONDLY ALL THE HCL IN THE STOMACH DOES TO MMS IS SLIGHTLY INCREASE THE RATE OF GENERATION OF CHLORINE DIOXIDE. ACID HAS NO EFFECT ON CHLORINE DIOXIDE AT THE pH LEVEL OF STOMACH ACID. YES MR. 96341 I HAVE MADE SEVERAL HUNDRED EXPERIMENTS USING STOMACH ACID AND MMS. HOWEVER, THIS DATA IS AVAILABLE IN THE LITERATURE. IT DOESN'T DEPEND UPON MY EXPERIMENTS.-- JimHumble


5. False statement--if you have nothing in the body below acid level/Ph7 there are no ill effects--ummm what about the acids in the stomach?? and what about those good bacteria- ACIDophilus etc??there ARE things in the body below that level and theyre necessary too

FYI HEALTHY microbes like lactobacillus require Ph range of 5.8-6.6 ACIDIC and
some pathogens like clostridium do well at 6.0-7.6--that is, they thrive even with alkaline environs!!

when in a state of health human body is slightly ACIDIC
while blood is usally slightly alkaline at 7.4 ( arteries) and 7.3 (veins)
Urine Ph norms = 6.0
saliva Ph norma 6.0-7.4 and vary so widely it cannot be used to measure the entire body's Ph levels
there are individual variations so that within a small range we each have optimum levels depending upon diet and genetics and other factors.

5... ALTHOUGH I NEVER MADE ANY SUCH STATEMENTS, YOU FINALLY DID GET SOMETHING RIGHT. I'D AGREE WITH YOU CONCERNING THESE pH STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE. I'LL LET YOU HAVE THAT. HOWEVER, YOU STILL ARE NOT GETTING IT. THE pH (WHICH MEANS ACID-ALKALINE LEVEL) OF THE BODY DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE OPERATION OF CHLORINE DIOXIDE IN THE BODY. I NEVER SAID IT DID. THE pH LEVEL OF THE SKIN OF PATHOGENS "MIGHT" HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE OPERATION OF MMS, BUT NOT pH LEVEL OF THE BODY. -- JimHumble


6. False statement--no chlorine is involved--that chlorine like odor when you mix it??? chlorine!! and IF its chlorine dioxide??? still poison-matter of fact if you inhale the fumes you will be inhaling chlorine or chlorine dioxide gas and may well end up needing medical attention!

6. WRONG AGAIN. READ THE LITERATURE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ MY BOOK. SODIUM CHLORITE MAKES CHLORINE DIOXIDE. IT IS USED EXTENSIVE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT MAKE CHLORINE. SHOULD YOU INHALE IT? NOT A GOOD IDEA. BUT THE AMOUNT THAT YOU CAN GET FROM A DOSE OF MMS WILL NEVER SEND ANYONE TO THE HOSPITAL. CONSIDER A 15 DROP MAXIMUM DOSE OF MMS. IT GENERATES 3 MG OF CHLORINE DIOXIDE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A PIN IS? WELL 3 MG IS LESS THAN A PIN HEAD. 3 MG OF CYANIDE WON'T HURT YOU, ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT SMELL REALLY BAD, AND CYANIDE IS MUCH MORE POISONOUS THAN CHLORINE DIOXIDE. -- JimHumble


7. false statement- ingesting MMS causes Ph changes of the entire body/blood to occur--no one has shown this to happen.
- in any case, any PH changes that may occur, are very quickly rebalanced in the body,and kept within very strict levels ( different for various tissues etc) UNLESS one is so ill as to be unable and then they face a probable DEADLY outcome. Theres a reason why saliva and blood are slightly alkaline and urine acid...why would anyone think playing around with this balance is GOOD???

- except in presence of some very specific illnesses, you cannot change one's cellular Ph safely. Have you seen people in acidosis or alkalosis?? I have...not pretty. tiny changes that dont upset the natural balance also dont do much of anything for invaders...they too "like" the same margins of Ph our cells do.

7... DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GETTING YOUR INFORMATION, BUT I (JIMHUMBLE) HAVE NEVER MADE ANY SUCH STATEMENTS WHAT SO EVER. READ MY BOOK. READ MY WEB SITE. QUIT MAKING THINGS UP. -- JimHumble


8. false statement--the nasuea/vomiting, diarrhea means a good thing--pathogens and toxins are leaving the body-maybe even a "herx"
if you ingest enough 'common salt' or salt water you will also vomit etc...like I advised to those doing the Salt/Vit c cure this too has very big risks. BUT this is NOT proof of a Herx!! or of healing or even detoxing--its your body screaming " hey stop that"

Not all negative symptom results can be called "herxes" regardless of whats causing them. that term has become way to loosely used and why we often have trouble getting other trained professionals to listen to us when a real Herx ( or other event poorly adopted) happens

FYI as for pathogens and changing Ph-as far back as the "Principles of Surgery" by Nicholas Seim it was well known that altering the stomach's acidity by making it alkaline will actually PRESERVE the virulence of pathogens and make the patient MORE likely to get deadly SEPSIS!! ingesting a strong alkaline is NOT therefore a 'good' thing. it will allow pathogens in the GI tract to become stronger and even to be passed further into one's body.

- saying chlorine dioxide is safe because we produce tiny amounts of it is patently silly. even WATER becomes toxic at high amounts. and anyone can look up 'chlorine dioxide' to see that its quite a dangerous substance. Citing its uses is like my saying that at one time ARSENIC was used quite successfully against spirochetes specifically syphilis. well, who here would want to ingest arsenic??

8. THAT'S JUST TALKING TO BE TALKING. 1/2 MATCH HEAD OF SALT WILL NEVER MAKE ANYONE NAUSEOUS. AGAIN, MMS DOES NOT ALTER THE pH OF THE BODY AND IS NOT DEPENDENT UPON THE pH OF THE BODY. WHAT POSSIBLE POINT CAN YOU BE MAKING BY SAYING THAT WATER IS TOXIC IN HIGH AMOUNTS. ANYONE KNOWS THAT. EVERY MEDICAL DRUG KNOWN IS TOXIC IN HIGH AMOUNTS AND MANY OF THEM MANY TIMES MORE TOXIC THAN CHLORINE DIOXIDE. CHLORINE DIOXIDE IS NOT TOXIC IN SMALL AMOUNTS USED IN MMS. I'VE TAKEN IT FOR 12 YEARS. MORE THAN A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE HAVE HAD IT INJECTED INTO THEIR VEINS IN THE PAST 20 YEARS. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE NOW TAKING IT. THAT DATA IS AVAILABLE AND PROVABLE. READ MY BOOK. THE FORMULA, SODIUM CHLORITE IN THE FORM OF STABILIZED OXYGEN HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR 80 YEARS IN HEALTH FOOD STORES.--JimHumble


9. False statement- Malaria has been cured in Malawi and Uganda--
-I have intimate knowledge of the malaria situation in Africa due to my daughter ( grad student of anthropology who unfortunately for my gray hair travels out of this country a LOT). and I can unequivocably say that NO cure for malaria has been done there on any large scale IF AT ALL. Hundreds are STILL dying in hospitals from resistant parasites. I have a BIG problem with advertising 'cures' when I know them to be less than truthful.if they 'fudge' or exaggerate in one area then how can I believe the rest of the claims. I personally emailed the Ministers of Health of Malawi and Uganda and to this date None have been willing to say that anyone there used/uses MMS and that ANYONE has been cured of Malaria with it. Youd think theyd be bragging over their superiority if this happened. Id like to see PROOF from anyone of this happening as per the MMS website

9... WRONG AGAIN MR. 96341. IN MALAWI WE ONLY DID CLINICAL TRIALS IN THE PRISON WITH 100 % CURE RATE. THE MALAWI GOVERNMENT ALSO MATCHED OUR TESTS AND GOT THE SAME RESULTS. IN MY BOOK, I GAVE ORGANIZATIONS THAT DID THE BLOOD TESTING AND THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM YOU CAN STILL CONTACT. THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE IN THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT YOU CAN CONTACT, AND IN MY BOOK THERE ARE COPIES OF DOCUMENTS FROM GOVERNMENTS. IN MALAWI ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE GOVERNMENT HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY THE PRESIDENT, BUT THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE TESTS ARE STILL THERE AND ABLE TO BE CONTACTED. BUT THE EASIER THING IS TO SIMPLY READ MY BOOK. THE PROOF IS THERE. DR. HESSELINK HAS TAKEN MORE THAN 2000 RESEARCH PAPERS CONCERNING CHLORINE DIOXIDE AND IT'S ABILITY TO CURE MALARIA FROM THE INTERNET. HE HAS DESCRIBED THE Science AND CHEMISTRY VERY CAREFULLY. HE HAS LISTED 160 SUCH PAPERS IN MY BOOK IN CHAPTER 22. THERE ARE LOTS OF DOCTORS USING MMS NOW. I CHALLENGE YOU OR ANY DOCTOR OR ANY SCIENTIST TO SHOW ME WHERE I AM WRONG. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE I HAVE THE Science AND CHEMISTRY CORRECT. READ MY BOOK INSTEAD OF TALKING WITH NO KNOWLEDGE AT ALL.--JimHumble


10 false statement-resistance to this ( if it works) cant happen-
RESISTANCE can and does build whenever ANY microbe killer is used. period. This ClO2 cannot and does not instantly kill every last "bad" microbe all at once...IF it did why then do you need it for so long????? the microbes that are NOT killed are very quickly reporducing and those survivors are passing along their genetic know-how to get STRONGER. For the same reasons Antibiotics are a big cause of the resistant bacteria we now face, taking ANY killer will do the SAME.using anything that puts pressure on another living thing to adapt will cause genetic changes ( mutationally or simply gradually with reproduction). ALL living things have one prime directive : survive and reproduce--and they will find a way to do so.

and it doesnt take much time either--a few hundred generation with some microbes---and that can occur fast--some microbes have a generation every few hrs.

Im guessing that with some more time I can even find for you microbes that lap up chlorine. many thought for so long nothing can grow with high methane- WRONG, high sulfur or temperatures-WRONG.nothing can grow in Ice- wrong- turns out that there is LIFE adapted to very last environment on Earth. And some are pathogenic in every area.

10. WRONG AGAIN ACCORDING TO BIOLOGISTS. FOR 100 YEARS CHLORINE DIOXIDE HAS BEEN USED TO STERILIZE HOSPITAL FLOORS, AND BENCHES, STERILIZE MEAT IN SLAUGHTER YARDS, AND CHICKEN SLAUGHTER HOUSES, AND KILL PATHOGENS IN THOUSANDS OF WATER PURIFICATION PLANTS. DURING THE 100 YEARS NO KNOWN PATHOGEN HAS EVER DEVELOPED A RESISTANCE TO CHLORINE DIOXIDE. Antibiotics KILL BY DESTROYING THE NUCLEUS. CHLORINE DIOXIDE KILLS BY BLOWING A HOLE IN THE SIDE OF THE PATHOGEN. ITS LIKE TRYING TO DEVELOP A RESISTANCE TO HAND GRENADES. YOU CAN'T. SORRY, BUT A NUMBER OF BIOLOGISTS HAVE AGREED THAT PATHOGENS SIMPLY WILL NEVER DEVELOP A RESISTANCE TO CHLORINE DIOXIDE. IT WASN'T MY IDEA.--JimHumble


11. people are being cured--well maybe they ARE and maybe not--but not from this--from what? placebo effect perhaps ( at what cost or risk), perhaps by other stuff theyve done previously--after all many who try this have failed many times on previous treatments...maybe all they needed was healing time.

and what of the folks on it over a YEAR??? where is their CURE??? and to what long term effects??

Conclusion
am I therefore saying no one should use this or any other supposed miracle cure??? NO -its not for ME to say that. BUT when we are exhorting others to take the same risks we must be VERY sure we have given them ALL of the correct information and not putting OTHERS in harms way!

what I AM saying is that we must be much more careful about our "facts" and only then can we EACH decide in a fully informed manner which risks we each are willing to take. Id be happy to admit any errors on my part if you provide the substantiation.

and please dont compare to Rx drugs--when they dont tell us all the neg effects its as bad!! having information means WE become educated about the possible risks--whether its an RX drug or MMS--and when there are blatant false statements and bad science--we all have to stop and ask WHY

Im also pretty sure that if any of the so called miracle cures out there really are a global for-all cure, then we would all be "cured" . the fact that there are so many of us still ill proves to me that as yet it doesnt exists. Unfortunately for many illnesses, the individualness of the situation makes it that much LESS likely of a cure for all. so far all "universal" cure all havent stood the test of time.

IF any of you are truly feeling better after doing ANY cure, then may G-d Bless and may you continue to heal. BUT that doesnt mean that for others itd be a safe or healthy decision to do something so risky, especially blinded by the advice and what Ive read so far on this and other sites.

. we have to be willing to embrace facts even if theyre contrary to what you 'believe' or have 'heard' or seen as written by those wanting to sell their products.

continue to take, or do, what helps you but be open to the fact that you may be doing so at great risk and urging others to do the same while hiding ALL of the information ( including that which is opposite to your beliefs) is IMHO negligent.
and that would make us no better than Big Pharma who most of us can agree has a nasty habit of providing only the studies supporting their drugs while conveniently forgetting to print harmful outcomes!! Many of us would and DO take drugs with a long list of warnings...but at least we have been warned.

Denying the WHOLE truth about ANY new cure-all ( and ALL things have good and bad about them) does no one any good.the people losing kidneys after doing Salt/C and many others terribly ill on other regimens are now being blocked and booted off many sites for sharing their experiences--'too negative' , 'cant be true' are the reasons. Is this what we want??

before simply accepting anything
first understand the basic science behind unbelievable claims, then investigate motive and if the inventor understands the good and bad effects and finally balance the risks with benefits--and IF at the outset many lies/exaggerations are told and the science is all wrong ask youselves--HOW can anything thats said then be trusted??

and thats one of many reasons why the Drs without Borders and the WHO etc arent going anywhere near this!!! too much is so very wrong they cant possibly take anything else seriously

and forget conspiracies---there are far MORE incentives ( monetary included) for any African nation to declare theyre cured Malaria!!!! and that cute little stunt on the MMS site stating poor Jim Humble is feared for his life??? marketing gimmick folks--right off the pages of several internet marketing classes!!!

be careful out there and QUESTION for Petes sake

11. MR.96341. THIS IS THE WORST STATEMENT OF ALL AS YOU HAVE BROKEN EVERY THING THAT YOU SAY SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN. YOU HAVE BROKEN YOUR OWN RULES. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CHLORINE DIOXIDE IS AND WHAT IT DOES AND IT'S CHARACTERISTICS EXCEPT YOU HAVE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS WHERE IT IS USED MILLIONS OF TIME STRONGER THAT IN MMS.

SO YOU PUT UP A CONCLUSION, LET ME PUT UP A CONCLUSION: I GUESS I DON'T HAVE A VERY GOOD CONCLUSION. I JUST CAN'T FIGURE WHY SOMEONE WOULD MAKE SO MANY FALSE STATEMENTS. I DIDN'T SAY 90% OF WHAT YOU SAID I SAID, HOWEVER, I DID INDEED SAY THAT ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE CURED IN AFRICA. IN AMERICA TODAY, MORE THAN 12,000 BOTTLES OF MMS ARE BEING SOLD EACH MONTH AND THAT NUMBER IS INCREASING EACH MONTH. YOU CAN'T POSSIBLE BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE ARE THAT DUMB. 90 PER CENT OF THE PEOPLE WHO BUY MY BOOK BUY IT BECAUSE OF REFERRALS FROM FRIENDS, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE SAY WHEN THEY BUY THE BOOK. I DON'T SELL MMS. AND IF I MAKE ANY MONEY FROM THE SALES IT'S BECAUSE MONEY IS DONATED TO ME. SOME DO AND SOME DON'T.

MR. 96341 I HAVE PERSONALLY GIVEN THOUSANDS OF BOTTLES OF MMS, AND THE PEOPLE I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OVER 500 LIVES SAVED AND THOUSANDS OF OTHERS SAVED AT A DISTANCE. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE OTHER THAN SCARE A FEW HUNDRED PEOPLE INTO CONTINUING TO SUFFER WHEN THEY COULD NOW BE WELL? PLEASE READ THESE ANSWERS AGAIN AND AGAIN AS YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE SO THAT MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE YOU SCARED WILL NOT CONTINUE TO SUFFER. -- JimHumble


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