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NWO Tracking Device Plans RN Educational Lapis 21 y 18,914-
With the internet reaching thousands it’s easy to ...
Lapis
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- Re: NWO Tracking Device Plans check out this one mee 21 y 13,764
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With the internet reaching thousands it’s easy to ...
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"Operation Cancelled Election 2004 is in play..." NakedLunch 21 y 1,802-
The majority will vote Bush back in 2004-just beca...
stofurz
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Re: Stick with THESE words
NakedLunch
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But apart from clear marauding of “peshmerga”...
Wizard
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If he goes back to school, he might become a cheer...
BNK88
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This is a reply to # 451,540
If he goes back to school, he might become a cheerleader again... just for a point-out
If he goes back to school, he might become a cheerleader again... just for a point-out
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If he goes back to school, he might become a cheer...
BNK88
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But apart from clear marauding of “peshmerga”...
Wizard
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Re: Stick with THESE words
NakedLunch
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The majority will vote Bush back in 2004-just beca...
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On The American Home Front Lapis 21 y 3,533-
I would expect that this is but the first of many ...
wheelslip
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This is a reply to # 451,644I would expect that this is but the first of many acts of violence to be perpetrated against ant-war demonstrators. Let’s not forget the Patriot Acts. Are these protesters actually terrorists? ...
I would expect that this is but the first of many acts of violence
to be perpetrated against ant-war demonstrators. Let's not forget
the Patriot Acts. Are these protesters actually terrorists? I'm
certain Ashcroft and his elves have looked into it.
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I would expect that this is but the first of many ...
wheelslip
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The insanity continues: North Korea and the US 'on...
Wizard
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The insanity continues: North Korea and the US 'on a slide towards conflict'
The insanity continues: North Korea and the US 'on a slide towards conflict'
http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,930570,00.html
Tracy McVeigh Sunday April 6, 2003 The Observer
War in North Korea is now almost inevitable because of the country's diplomatic stalemate with America, a senior UN official claims.
Ahead of this week's crucial talks between members of the UN Security Council, Maurice Strong, special adviser to the Secretary General Kofi Annan, was gloomy on the chances of a peaceful settlement.
'I think war is unnecessary, it's unthinkable and unfortunately it's entirely possible,' he said.
Strong, who has just returned from a private mission for Annan in North Korea and is due to report to UN officials in New York tomorrow, said he felt both North Korea and America seemed to think they had time on their side but were both on a slide towards war.
On Wednesday the UN security council will hear America's demand for sanctions against North Korea, which it accuses of planning to develop nuclear weapons.
The Communist state has already said it would regard any such move as an 'act of war' and yesterday further warned that it would ignore any UN resolutions on the issue. It believes its dispute is solely with the US and wants direct talks with Washington - something the American government has refused to even consider.
'The nuclear issue on the Korean peninsula is not something that should be discussed at the United Nations,' said the state KCNA news agency in Pyongyang.
North Korea fervently believes it is next on America's list for pre- emptive strikes, says Strong. It takes George Bush's rhetoric in his 'axis of evil' speech as a very real threat to its national security. Washington says it seeks a diplomatic end, but has not ruled out a military solution.
'There is such a complete breakdown of trust and confidence between these two countries that they are now unable to read the intentions of the other so there is real potential now for this to escalate into conflict,' Strong said.
He said the North Koreans were prepared for war but 'anxious for peace'. The stand-off between the two nations first flared in October when US officials said North Korea had admitted having a secret nuclear programme in violation of a 1994 agreement. As punishment, Washington and its allies suspended promised oil shipments.
North Korea retaliated by taking steps to reactivate mothballed facilities capable of making nuclear bombs and withdrawing from the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty. It also deported UN monitors.
It claims it pulled out of the treaty because non-nuclear countries were supposed to be protected by nuclear powers like the US, not threatened.
Meanwhile, North Korea accused Japan yesterday of plotting a pre-emptive strike following recent calls from Tokyo to beef up the country's defence capabilities against the Communist nation.
Defence Minister Shigeru Ishiba said on Friday that Japan had a right to launch a strike on foreign soil if an attack is deemed imminent.
In the last two months Pyongyang has tested at least two short- range missiles. In 1998 it launched a ballistic missile over Japan's main island into the Pacific Ocean, showing that any target in Japan was within its range.
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Article From The Onion
R wheelslip
21 y
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Article From The Onion
As Americans, we have a right to question our government and its actions However, while there is a time to criticize, there is also a time to follow in complacent silence. And that time is now.
It's one thing to question our leaders in the days leading up to a war. But it is another thing entirely to do it during a war. Once the blood of young men starts to spill, it is our duty as citizens not to challenge those responsible for spilling that blood. We must remove the boxing gloves and put on the kid gloves. That is why, in this moment of crisis, I should not be allowed to say the following things about America:
Why do we purport to be fighting in the name of liberating the Iraqi people when we have no interest in violations of human rights—as evidenced by our habit of looking the other way when they occur in China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Syria, Burma, Libya, and countless other countries? Why, of all the brutal regimes that regularly violate human rights, do we only intervene militarily in Iraq? Because the violation of human rights is not our true interest here. We just say it is as a convenient means of manipulating world opinion and making our cause seem more just. That is exactly the sort of thing I should not say right now.
This also is not the time to ask whether diplomacy was ever given a chance. Or why, for the last 10 years, Iraq has been our sworn archenemy, when during the 15 years preceding it we traded freely in armaments and military aircraft with the evil and despotic Saddam Hussein. This is the kind of question that, while utterly valid, should not be posed right now.
And I certainly will not point out our rapid loss of interest in the establishment of democracy in Afghanistan once our fighting in that country was over. We sure got out of that place in a hurry once it became clear that the problems were too complex to solve with cruise missiles.
That sort of remark will simply have to wait until our boys are safely back home.
Here's another question I won't ask right now: Could this entire situation have been avoided in the early 1990s had then-U.S. ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie not been given sub rosa instructions by the Bush Administration to soft-pedal a cruel dictator? Such a question would be tantamount to sedition while our country engages in bloody conflict. Just think how hurtful that would be to our military morale. I know I couldn't fight a war knowing that was the talk back home.
Is this, then, the appropriate time for me to ask if Operation Iraqi Freedom is an elaborate double-blind, sleight-of-hand misdirection ploy to con us out of inconvenient civil rights through Patriot Acts I and II? Should I wonder whether this war is an elaborate means of distracting the country while its economy bucks and lurches toward the brink of a full-blown depression? No and no.
True patriots know that a price of freedom is periodic submission to the will of our leaders—especially when the liberties granted us by the Constitution are at stake. What good is our right to free speech if our soldiers are too demoralized to defend that right, thanks to disparaging remarks made about their commander-in-chief by the Dixie Chicks?
When the Founding Fathers authored the Constitution that sets forth our nation's guiding principles, they made certain to guarantee us individual rights and freedoms. How dare we selfishly lay claim to those liberties at the very moment when our nation is in crisis, when it needs us to be our most selfless? We shame the memory of Thomas Jefferson by daring to mention Bush's outright lies about satellite photos that supposedly prove Iraq is developing nuclear weapons.
At this difficult time, President Bush needs my support. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld needs my support. General Tommy Franks needs my support. It is not my function as a citizen in a participatory democracy to question our leaders. And to exercise my constitutional right-—nay, duty-—to do so would be un-American.
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Bush, Blair banned entry to Church of Nativity as ... Wizard 21 y 3,559-
Rather fitting, isn't it? (nt)
Lapis
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Rather fitting, isn't it? (nt)
Lapis
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Expand this whole thread (5 messages)
Military Cleanliness John Cullison 21 y 4,166-
CAMP BUSHMASTER, Iraq - In this dry desert world n...
Lapis
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Re: I sure hope it is a joke!
Ev
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There are other ”super powers” that find this war ...
Lapis
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The troops need to be absolved of the sin of genoc...
Wizard
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This is a reply to # 451,643The troops need to be absolved of the sin of genocide...
....so, a port-a potty-baptism is just the ticket.
Wiz
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The troops need to be absolved of the sin of genoc...
Wizard
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There are other ”super powers” that find this war ...
Lapis
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Re: I sure hope it is a joke!
Ev
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CAMP BUSHMASTER, Iraq - In this dry desert world n...
Lapis
21 y
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How's Afghanistan After Bu$h Freed The People (of ...
Lapis
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How's Afghanistan After Bu$h Freed The People (of their oil)
We just have to look to very recent history to easily see that The US Military couldn't care less about the people of the Middle East. But, take note, the pipe lines ARE being built. Next, Iraq will find themselves in a similar situation, then Syrria, Iran,.....
Let's see how this works..promise to free the people...then leave them unprotected once you have what you actually came for.
**************************************************************
Monday April 7, 2003 5:10 PM
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) - Before executing the International Red Cross worker, the Taliban gunmen made a satellite telephone call to their superior for instructions: Kill him?
Kill him, the order came back, and Ricardo Munguia, whose body was found with 20 bullet wounds last month, became the first foreign aid worker to die in Afghanistan since the Taliban's ouster from power 18 months ago.
The manner of his death suggests the Taliban is not only determined to remain a force in this country, but is reorganizing and reviving its command structure.
There is little to stop them. The soldiers and police who were supposed to be the bedrock of a stable postwar Afghanistan have gone unpaid for months and are drifting away.
At a time when the United States is promising a reconstructed democratic postwar Iraq, many Afghans are remembering hearing similar promises not long ago.
Instead, what they see is thieving warlords, murder on the roads, and a resurgence of Taliban vigilantism.
``It's like I am seeing the same movie twice and no one is trying to fix the problem,'' said Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of Afghanistan's president and his representative in southern Kandahar. ``What was promised to Afghans with the collapse of the Taliban was a new life of hope and change. But what was delivered? Nothing. Everyone is back in business.''
Karzai said reconstruction has been painfully slow - a canal repaired, a piece of city road paved, a small school rebuilt.
``There have been no significant changes for people,'' he said. ``People are tired of seeing small, small projects. I don't know what to say to people anymore.''
When the Taliban ruled they forcibly conscripted young men. ``Today I can say 'we don't take your sons away by force to fight at the front line,''' Karzai remarked. ``But that's about all I can say.''
But progress also is a question of perspective. Capt. Trish Morris, spokeswoman for the Coalition Joint Civil-Military Operations Task Force, said civil affairs teams have spent up to $13 million on projects affecting the daily lives of Afghans.
``That may not sound like a lot of money, but that's hundreds of schools and clinics and bridges and wells all over Afghanistan,'' Morris said in Kabul.
``Some might say not a lot is being done,'' but the U.S. government, the United Nations and the private aid agencies ``are all working very hard,'' Morris said. ``It's just going to take some time, because 23 years of war has destroyed a lot of things.''
From safe havens in neighboring Pakistan, aided by militant Muslim groups there, the Taliban launched their revival to coincide with the war in Iraq and capitalize on Muslim anger over the U.S. invasion, say Afghan officials.
Karzai said the Taliban are allied with rebel commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, supported by Pakistan and financed by militant Arabs.
The attacks have targeted foreigners and the threats have been directed toward Afghans working for international organizations.
Abdul Salam is a military commander for the government. Last month he was stopped at a Taliban checkpoint in the Shah Wali Kot district of Kandahar and became a witness to the killing of Munguia, a 39-year-old water engineer from El Salvador.
After stopping Munguia and his three-vehicle convoy, gunmen made a phone call to Mullah Dadullah, a powerful former Taliban commander who happens to have an artificial leg provided by the Red Cross.
Mimicking a telephone receiver by cupping a hand on his ear, Salam recalled the gunmen's side of the conversation.
``I heard him say Mullah Dadullah,'' he said. ``I heard him ask for instructions.''
When the conversation ended the Taliban moved quickly, Salam said. They shoved Munguia behind one of the vehicles, siphoned gasoline from the tanks and used it to set the vehicles on fire.
Munguia was standing nearby. One Taliban raised his Kalashnikov rifle and fired at Munguia.
Then they told the others: ``You are working with kafirs (unbelievers). You are slaves of Karzai and Karzai is a slave to America.''
``This time we will let you go because you are Afghan,'' Salam remembered them saying, ``but if we find you again and you are still working for the government we will kill you.''
In the latest killing in southern Afghanistan, gunmen on Thursday shot to death Haji Gilani, a close Karzai ally, in southern Uruzgan province. Gilani was one of the first people to shelter Karzai when he secretly entered Afghanistan to foment a rebellion against the Taliban in late 2001.
International workers in Kandahar don't feel safe anymore and some have been moved from the Kandahar region to safer areas, said John Oerum, southwest security officer for the United Nations. But Oerum is trying to find a way to stay in southern Afghanistan. To abandon it would be to let the rebel forces win, he says.
The Red Cross, with 150 foreign workers in Afghanistan, have suspended operations indefinitely.
Today most Afghans say their National Army seems a distant dream while the U.S.-led coalition continues to feed and finance warlords for their help in hunting for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters.
Karzai, the president's brother, says: ``We have to pay more attention at the district level, build the administration. We know who these Taliban are, but we don't have the people to report them when they return.''
Khan Mohammed, commander of Kandahar's 2nd Corps, says his soldiers haven't been paid in seven months, and his fighting force has dwindled. The Kandahar police chief, Mohammed Akram, said he wants 50 extra police in each district where the Taliban have a stronghold. But he says his police haven't been paid in months and hundreds have just gone home.
``There is no real administration all over Afghanistan, no army, no police,'' said Mohammed. ``The people do not want the Taliban, but we have to unite and build, but we are not.''
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003
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Déjà Vu
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Déjà Vu
For Iraq: Déjà Vu All Over Again
'Liberators' Have Been There Before, And Stayed for Decades
By Libby Copeland
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, April 6, 2003; Page F01
This isn't the first time a Western superpower has invaded Iraq, promising to free the country from tyrannical rule and bring democratic government -- all while nursing its own strategic interests.
The last time it happened, the British influence stayed for four decades.
When the British captured Baghdad in 1917, defeating the Ottomans, Gen. Stanley Maude made a declaration to the Iraqis:
"Our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies, but as liberators."
Here is what Vice President Cheney predicted last month: "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
That word -- "liberators" -- is leaden with historical weight. Then, as now, the superpower's motivation was suspect to some of the people liberated. Then, as now, there were questions about just how much self-rule would be given to them.
From the viewpoint of Iraqis, suggests James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, "if anything defines the history of the last century, it's the sense of having lost control . . . This is not about Saddam Hussein. This is about one more time when Western powers are coming in to redefine the Arab region."
"It is history repeating itself," says Kumait Jawdat, an Iraqi American who lives in Northwest Washington and whose grandfather fought to free his homeland from the Ottomans and later served as prime minister. The Americans "are invading Iraq. No matter how you want to polish that phrase, they're entering a country by force against the will of certainly some of the inhabitants. They're going to generate a certain degree of resentment."
Consider the parallels. Almost 90 years ago, when the British army came to what was then Mesopotamia, they faced a population divided along ethnic and tribal lines. Just as now, Sunni Muslims, a minority, enjoyed an elite status and positions of power, despite the fact that Shiite Muslims were a larger percentage of the population. The British came in through the south of the country and took the city of Basra in 1914, then traveled to Baghdad. For different strategic reasons, the United States today follows a similar geographic route.
Like Americans now, the British faced a forbidding landscape. Britain's first advance on Baghdad was understaffed and under-prepared, and the British troops encountered surprising resistance along the way.
"This of course looks strikingly similar to what happened to the British," says Middle East historian Janet Wallach. "They went in and they thought it was going to be a quick and easy thing and it turned out to be a long and difficult campaign."
Britain's miscalculation led to one of its most humiliating episodes of the war, when they were defeated by the Ottomans at Kut in 1916 after a siege that lasted 146 days. They finally took Baghdad the next year. Among Iraqis, reaction to the British was mixed. As Charles Tripp writes in "A History of Iraq," "many welcomed the removal of Ottoman control, but were apprehensive about British military occupation."
Like Americans today, the British invoked the oppressed state of Iraqis, and promised that with foreign involvement, they would do better. In his proclamation in Baghdad, Gen. Maude reminded Iraqis that "for 26 generations you have suffered under strange tyrants," and invited them "to participate in the management of your civil affairs in collaboration with the political representatives of Great Britain who accompany the British Army."
But as the Iraqis saw it, history worked out somewhat differently.
Kumait Jawdat's grandfather was among the Iraqi military men who fought alongside the British to defeat the Ottoman Empire, which in the parlance of the times was called "the sick man of Europe." At the end of the war, "Arabs had some justification for thinking rather than getting occupation they were going to get self-determination," says Phebe Marr, an Iraq historian.
Instead, France and Britain carved up the Middle East like so much pie while the United States clucked its tongue at their imperialism. The British were eager to hold onto Iraq, which gave them a strategic position with regard to India and -- shades of the modern day here -- access to oil interests.
Confusion soon set in among both the British and the Iraqis. How should the country be ruled? Directly by the British? Indirectly? What Iraqi leaders should step forward to represent the people?
Historian Judith Yaphe of National Defense University compares the divisions among Iraqis to those that still exist today, both within the country and within Iraq's exiled community. "They might not have liked the Brits but they didn't like each other much either, and if that doesn't ring true today, I do not know what does," she says. "There was a lot of disarray."
Britain was awarded a mandate from the League of Nations in 1920, allowing it to keep Iraq under its tutelage for the time being. Iraqis found this system patronizing and heavy-handed, and undertook a sizable revolt in the summer of 1920. The British put it down.
"If history is a guide, then the Muslim population of Iraq will not want to be governed by non-Muslims," says Middle East scholar David Fromkin.
In 1921, the British installed King Faisal I, who was beholden to them, within the framework of a constitutional monarchy. In coming years they advised the government and controlled the population with air power in times of uprising. Even after Iraq was granted formal independence in 1932, the British kept a hand in the country's affairs until a coup forced out the British-allied regime in 1958.
Of course there are limitations to the historical comparison. This time around, the despot is homegrown. And Iraq as a state didn't exist when the British came in, unlike now.
Ghida al-Askari Yousif, a schoolteacher in Vienna whose grandfather and great-uncle were prominent officials in Iraq for decades after the country was created, believes that modern-day Iraqis are more sophisticated about their place in the world.
"The difference now is they have a sense of identity and they have CNN and al-Jazeera," she says. "They know they're a part of something bigger." Yousif says that this may make contemporary Iraqis even less willing to accept foreign dominance.
Just how far the parallels between the British and the Americans extend will depend on the coming months and years.
Jawdat says that King Faisal and his successors never could erase the stain of their association with the Western invaders. He fears that whomever the U.S. helps into power will face the same problem.
"They're fostering one particular group, the Iraqi National Congress, as the solution for leading modern Iraq, at least through the transition period, so that anybody associated with the regime -- because of its association with the U.S. invasion -- is going to be forever tainted," he says.
Kumait, a technical writer, just returned from a conference of Iraqi exiles in London that announced itself as an alternative to the INC. He says he fears that -- just as with the British -- an American imposition of what Iraqi government should be, no matter how well intentioned, is virtually doomed.
"A democracy conceived in the American mind and imposed by the Americans and the British on an Iraq with a long history of civilization is not going to take root, because while it may suit the administration's needs it does not suit Iraq's needs, and this is where I see a parallel," he says. "The British with their idealism created a modern state without focusing enough on the traditions of the indigenous people."
Yousif worries that there's a certain familiar arrogance to the Americans swooping in to save the Iraqis, bringing in their own political solutions and their own interests. She is frustrated that Iraq and the larger Arab world couldn't solve this problem on their own. Iraqis are proud, she says, and the United States "should not impose its values on these people."
If they resist the Americans -- call them invaders or liberators or what you will -- it will not be because they love Saddam Hussein, she says, but because they love their country. "It's called self-respect," she says.
How long will the Americans stay? Will their influence be felt for decades, like that of the British?
"In the broader [Middle East] region, there is the assessment that America is never leaving," says Zogby. "They have bases in the Gulf, they now have a strong presence in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan and Iraq, and now threats against Syria." Zogby says many feel the war in Iraq is just one step in attempting a "radical transformation of the Middle East."
© 2003 The Washington Post Company -
Interesting cross post from Martha on Viet Nam / I...
Wizard
21 y
1,442
Interesting cross post from Martha on Viet Nam / Iraq comparision in casualties....
Martha,
I think the US has evolved somewhat since Viet Nam (although it’s hard to see right this moment). I do remember those times well though, believe me....
If the attack on Iraq bogs down, or more likely, if when the US does take over, the guerrilla and suicide attackers come out of the woodwork start sending 100s home in body bags, then perhaps there will be a change of heart.
The US media is all but reporting the war as won tonight, so we’ll see if the Iraqi resistance folds or this is just more propaganda. I know thatthe US is taking 10 or 20 times the casualties repor ...
[This message is long. Retrieve the whole message]
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Oh, how very peaceful the anti-war protesters are....
stofurz
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1,278
Oh, how very peaceful the anti-war protesters are...
Ya, peaceful towards murderous scum like Saddam and destructive toward the country that gives them liberty! -
Those Other Christians
R John Cullison
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Those Other Christians
One woman enrages war rally with her heartfelt message: 'I love my country but . . .'
By ROY MacGREGOR
Monday, April 7, 2003 - Page A2
WHEELING, W. VA. -- If Jessica Lynch is the bravest woman in America, the second-bravest may well be Angelica Amaya.
Or, as some will say -- for various reasons, including ones of her own personal safety -- the most foolish.
Certainly the several hundred people gathered Saturday morning at the Veterans Amphitheatre in a Valley Rally for America think she is dead wrong and ignorant.
Or, as one angry veteran puts it, standing less than an arm's length away from her, "She's sick -- mentally disturbed."
Yet Angelica Amaya stands her ground, tears rolling down her cheeks and her entire body shaking in the cold wind that pounds in off the Ohio River.
"I'm scared," the 33-year-old office worker admits.
"But I have to do this."
Read the rest at The Globe and Mail.
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US Isn't Operating In A Vacuum
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US Isn't Operating In A Vacuum
There are other "super powers" that find this war wrong and are preparing to do something about it.
************************************************************** Russia, China call for end to war in Iraq
April 04, 2003 Posted: 16:29 Moscow time (12:29 GMT)
BEIJING - China and Russia jointly called on Friday for an immediate end to the war in Iraq and said the United Nations must play the central role in settling the problem there peacefully.
As U.S.-led coalition troops advanced on Baghdad, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov told reporters in Beijing that, regardless of the outcome of the war, Iraq's future would be decided by the United Nations, not by the United States.
He said China and Russia had discussed "detailed measures and steps to secure the core position of the United Nations, including all phases of the conflict, during the war and after the war".
"The standard and form of the rebuilding work in Iraq after the war will not be decided by the U.S. Congress, but by the United Nations," he said in response to a question about a U.S. House of Representatives measure barring money allocated for the war going to France, Germany, Russia and Syria.
Those countries have been among the most vocal opponents of the use of force in Iraq.
In a joint statement at the end of Fedotov's two-day visit, Russia and China vowed continued efforts to have the issue resolved by political means.
Like Moscow, Beijing has staunchly opposed the war but it has been less publicly outspoken and barred most public protests in an effort to avoid straining Sino-U.S. ties, analysts say.
Fedotov said the humanitarian situation in Iraq was becoming serious as the war dragged on.
"The war has become a humanitarian disaster and it could become an environmental disaster. Another danger is that military activities in Iraq could result in a possible escalation of international terrorism," he told reporters through a Chinese-language translator.
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