Question to Pro life Christians 
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I was wondering:
If our purpose on earth is to follow God's will and obey and praise him and only he will eventually decide on your fate, then why do you impose anti-abortionism on anyone? Isn't it true that God is the only one who can judge someone? (it says so in the bible if you weren't sure)Since this is true who are you to judge someone and tell them what to do or not to do, isn't it between God and that person anyway and not between God, you, and that person? If you believe it is wrong, fine, no one forces anyone to have an abortion, but for people who believe it is not wrong than let them, they will suffer by the punishment of God anyway right?
As I was told believers in the Christian God have one purpose, to do what he wants and to love and worship him. This is done individually, you are not supposed to impose your views on anyone else, the bible dosen't say that people are supposed to force others to do what they think is right, no, on the contrary God wants every individual to chose for themselves. So do what God wants and let people have the freedom to choose.Advertisement
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- Re: Question to Pro life Christians eureka
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That is the thing, women do not have the freedom to choose because they are not truthfully informed about abortion. They are rarely told of all the risks involved whether it be emotional or physical.
You are right Christians are not to judge people. That is God's job. However we are told to judge sin. Deciding to end a life whether it be abortion, murder or euthanasia is sin. That is playing God! Only God knows when a life will end, it is never in anyone elses power.
So just like you say Christians should leave judgement up to God. I say everyone should leave life in God's hands.
Just because we are not to judge doesn't mean I'm going to sit around and do nothing about sin that has the potential to ruin my life, my sister's life, my cousin's life or my friend's life! Sin is sin, and I will speak out about it especially when it goes against my faith. It is wrong when a Christian speaks out in hatred, then they are sinning. A Christian should always be filled with the love of Jesus. That is how you know a true Christian, by their love! It is possible to love anyone, and not the sin!
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- Re: Question to Pro life Christians ... unyquity
19 y
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This is a reply to # 706,394Eureka,
While I definitely agree that woman are NOT exposed to the real & potential dangers (health & mental health) of abortion procedures, I have to add this:
It's a Christian's job to catch the fish...it's God's job to clean them!
While followers of Christ are told to recognize sin for what it is, Christ never told his followers to find/locate the wrong in someone else and tell them about it or point it out to them. He told his followers to clean up their own act, avoid sin in their own life; get ALL the boards out of their own eyes before plucking the splinters from others'; let their light shine, and lead people to him. It's virtually impossible for a follower of Christ to touch someone's heart and bring them to Jesus in the way that Jesus clearly stated, when the follower of Christ is pointing out every lil' error and "sin" they have in their life.
I personally disagree with most abortion, but I am POSITIVE that Jesus never implied in any way, shape or form that is MY job to tell others that it is wrong morally.
If a person decides to follow Christ's teaching, it is clearly written that they should indeed live a life that's "clean" according the teachings of Christ...and to witness and bring people to know the forgiveness and love of God by letting their own light shine...but it's between God & the person to "do the cleaning".
Respectfully,
Unyquity
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- Re: Question to Pro life Christians ... eureka
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That is exactly what I said in my previous post.
Abortion though is not a person. It is a "medical" procedure. I will judge it. Just the same as I judge every other "medical" procedure. It is un-necessary in 98.6% of the circumstances and comes with many, many risks. I'm not going to keep those risks a secret, I will tell the truth like it is.
As for Christian views and my beliefs. I always state they are my beliefs, and that it is up to the other person as to what they believe.- Re: Question to Pro life Christians ... unyquity
19 y
1,295
This is a reply to # 706,398Thanks for clarifying...I'm sorry I didn't "catch" your whole intent the first time, but if I may...here's why:
You said: Deciding to end a life whether it be abortion, murder or euthanasia is sin.
Not everyone (nor even every bible-believing Christian) believes that "deciding to end a life" is a sin...euthansia & abortion are NOT issues that were addressed by Christ. And since the Son of the Living God himself didn't see fit to mention it, it sounds very judgemental to me when a mere human decides for others what constitutes a "sin". No, it doesn't just sound judgemental, it IS judgemental. (And I'm not talking about the kind of "judgement" where, indeed, people who are followers of Christ should discern what is right/wrong action, so they themselves can "pluck the boards out of their own eyes" and grow closer to God...I'm talking about the kind of "judgement" where someone else decides what is wrong for someone else...and then finds it necessary to tell them that they're action is wrong/sinful).
You said: Just because we are not to judge doesn't mean I'm going to sit around and do nothing about sin that has the potential to ruin my life, my sister's life, my cousin's life or my friend's life! Sin is sin, and I will speak out about it especially when it goes against my faith.
Okee-dokee...hit me with your best shot! (lol) Where do we have record of Christ EVER admonishing his followers to speak out about sin or sinful actions?! (or giving them permission to decide what was sinful for other people?) When Christ walked the face of the earth, He was surrounded with "sin"...did he EVER tell ANYONE (especially his followers) to go around speaking out about it? By example or parable, did Christ EVER teach or suggest that Christians were to point out and illuminate other people's sin...for ANY reason?
He DID, however, come strongly against the people of the time that went around telling people what they should & shouldn't do...over & over again! He DID, however, admonish Christians to NOT judge other's actions, rather they should illuminate & express the all-forgiving love of Christ the Son and God the Father in order to bring people closer to Him.
It is possible to love anyone, and not the sin! Well, of course it is...but do you think that ANYONE would have ever known of Christ's love if He went around telling people everything that was wrong with them or their actions, all the time? Do you honestly believe that anyone can feel or sense Christ's love through you, when you're saying or insinuating..."you're a sinner, but I love you anyway cuz I'M a Christian?
Don't get me wrong here, if you choose to cling to the belief/way of thinking that: "Sin is sin, and I will speak out about it especially when it goes against my faith.", it's my strong opinion that you have every right to do that. But it's also my strong belief that your way of thinking obviously goes seriously against the teachings and admonitions of Christ.
Abortion IS a horrific medical procedure...one fraught with serious risks (for body, mental AND spiritual health & well-being). Women NEED to be educated about the risks, especially the ones that are covered up and disaregarded by orthodox medicine. I agree with you fully in that regard.
But when people go around judging and preaching "sin" alongside of the proven medical statistics & logical reason, they only cause people to not be able to see the forest for the trees. Judgementalism in ANY form, invokes an IMMEDIATE defensive reaction/mentality, and the common response and thought process is immediately taken OFF the truth of the medical reasons for not having an abortion, and switched to defensiveness. So rather than the person actually hearing the truth about the health issues of abortion, they're immediately moved to become defensive (which is generally evidenced by the conversation degrading into "who are YOU to judge?!" "what makes you think you can tell someone what is right or wrong?" etc, etc.) And the truth of the message is never absorbed or learned.
Hmmm, do you think (maybe? possibly?) Christ might have just have known what He was talking about?
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The Bible clearly says to protect the defenseless and voiceless. It also plainly states not to murder. That is what abortion is. Murdering the defenseless, voiceless baby. It is a sin because God says it is. It is not my opinion, it is God's.
It also says that we are to admonish, teach, our brothers and sisters when they are doing something wrong. Abortion is not a medical procedure. It is the ending of life. It is the great deception ever against humanity. Women think they have freedom to chose death for the unborn? Chose life!
Jesus wasn't a believer in "your okay, I'm okay." He told it like it was. He wasn't a pacificist. He went into the synagogue and turned the tables over, he said to his apostles to take their swords. Yes, he says love your enemies, love your neighbors, but God won't be mocked. Read the Bible and see who Jesus and God are.Advertisement
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- Re: Question to Pro life Christians ... unyquity
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This is a reply to # 706,419Your post is FULL of generalities, common misconceptions, and evidence that you've been doing a LOT of listening to "popular" broadcasts and publications...but sadly, not very much evidence that you've spent much time researching the teachings of Jesus Christ with a concordance (so that you can find the true meaning in the original language of the words that were spoken by Christ).
If you care to continue this conversation/debate, I'll be glad to (as time allows)...but I'll need biblical references to your comments. (see inserts below) Please note: my original post had only to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ (NOT teachings from the old testament)...so please contain your responses to the teachings of Jesus himself, or we won't be discussing the same issue at all.
The Bible clearly says to protect the defenseless and voiceless. -- Please give me chapter and verse (in context) of where Christ told us that it was our responsibility to protect the defenseless & voicless-- ( It also plainly states not to murder. That is what abortion is. Murdering the defenseless, voiceless baby. It is a sin because God says it is. It is not my opinion, it is God's. If you're referring the the ten commandments here, you might find it enlightening that "thou shalt not commit murder" in the orginal language means, "thou shalt not kill without cause or reason"...which is why, of course, it was "okay" that immediately after receiving the commandments, Moses ordered his followers to kill anyone that worshiped or created a graven image or idol. (Which is why I won't mix old testament teachings with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Christ would have NEVER (and did not ever) admonish any of his followers to kill someone just because they didn't agree with His teachings, yet in the old testament, that seems to be a 'theme')
It also says that we are to admonish, teach, our brothers and sisters when they are doing something wrong. Chapter & verse please...while I recall a few instances about 'spreading the good news' (which I suppose you could construe as teaching others), I recall no time when Christ admonished his followers to tell people when their actions or deeds were wrong. We have this reference-- And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." -Matthew 28:18-20 --which seems rather clear: 'teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you'...and since Christ never-ever commanded his followers to "hunt down sin/sinners" and tell them of their problems, but rather he commanded them to live a clean life, free of sin themselves, practice forgiveness and by their example to bring people to Him, I know of no instance where Christ told us to admonish our brothers & sisters if they were doing wrong. AND a "brother or sister" is someone who has already found Christ. That is ENTIRELY different than going around telling people that do not know Christ about their 'sins'. .Abortion is not a medical procedure. It is the ending of life. It is the great deception ever against humanity. Women think they have freedom to chose death for the unborn? Chose life! While I may agree basically with this, I disagree that it's the "right" or "duty" of a follower of Christ to go around telling people that they're sinning. The duties of a follower of Christ were explained quite clearly by Him, and pointing out other people's errors was NOT on the list (but living a pure life, full of love & forgiveness was something that was repeatedly admonished). If you have evidence otherwise, please expand my knowledge base.
Jesus wasn't a believer in "your okay, I'm okay." He told it like it was. He wasn't a pacificist. He went into the synagogue and turned the tables over, --out of ALL the teachings & parables & examples of Christ we have, this is the only time He ever expressed rage or something other than 'peaceful resistance'...and Christ (being who is was/is...and who we are NOT) most certainly had the right to do so...but he NEVER advised or taught His followers to do the same. If you have evidence that He did advise that type of action...chapter & verse please) -- he said to his apostles to take their swords. We have one example of Christ telling his apostles to take up a sword: And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." -Luke 22:35-38 --but as you can clearly see, HE DID NOT tell them to use it agressively in any way, shape or form (literally OR figuratively). In fact, when you read the entire chapter in context, it seems very clear to me that He meant, 'since I will not be with you any longer to protect you, you will need a sword to protect yourself (actually something more like a butcher knife in the original language) If you have references otherwise, chapter & verse, please. Yes, he says love your enemies, love your neighbors, but God won't be mocked. Read the Bible and see who Jesus and God are.
By taking the original words of Jesus Christ's teachings and life on this planet, twisting them to serve your own agenda & self-righteous attitude, you have mocked Jesus Christ in the worst conceivable manner. It is you that need to read the Bible and see who Jesus is, not I.
If every person that claimed to follow Christ would adhere to His teachings and admonitions, the world would be full of "Christians" that lived exemplary lives...free of sin, free of unforgiveness and hatred spewing, free of condemnation of others...but full of energy, compassion, helpfullness, healing...and a glowing Light that would draw people to itself and to the love of God. (and those people that had a special burden for abortion victims, would be nurturing, caring, taking these women into their homes, feeding them, clothing them, and helping them to overcome their situations...just like Christ told His followers to do). Rather, we have a world of hypocrites...people who would rather point out everybody elses "sin" than to abide the words of Christ for themselves. You know, right? The kind of religious people and leaders of the time that Christ came AGAINST!
Like Jesus said, "he who has eyes, let him see!". Can't you just imagine it!??!! A world full of loving, caring Christians, that "judged not", but rather (just like Jesus) went out of their way to gather the lost lamb that had strayed. If every "Christian" were to offer uncomdemning love, shelter, forgiveness, food & clothing to every woman that felt it necessary to have an abortion...and provide them with the help, shelter and necessities of life (which are lacking in the lives of most women that choose to have abortions), then the reason for having an abortion would be gone! And then, those women would continue and learn from the example...offering their homes, their love, their empathy, their strength AND the Light of Love to other women that are in the situation they were in. But sadly, instead, we have a world of hatred, condemnation and 'Christians' preaching against abortion...showing NOT the love and teachings of Christ, but rather the traits of evil. For the hundreds of thousands of 'Christians' that preach against abortion...has the number of abortions in the past decade fallen? Nope, the number of abortions continues to increase!!
Once again...you think maybe Jesus knew what He was talking about?!
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This is a reply to # 706,394Advertisement
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>>>>>>>>>That is the thing, women do not have the freedom to choose because they are not truthfully informed about abortion. They are rarely told of all the risks involved whether it be emotional or physical.<<<<<<<<<<<<
What gives you the right to remove thier freedom of choice, and to choose for them against their will?
What makes you think they are not fully informed, and yet decided to go ahead with the abortion anyway? No one is fully informed until they see things your way?
What makes you think you have the truth and they are all ignorant? Why do you think they need to be *told* the risks, like they can't possibly know something unless they are told by someone such as yourself?
Puts yourself in quite a position of power doesn't it? Are you prepared to take ownership and responsibilty of those choices and be accountable should something go wrong as a result of the choice you made for them?
This all really just boils down to your religion doesn't it?
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- Re: Question to Pro life Christians #50900
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This is a reply to # 706,406Chose life! It's not what I say but what God says. God says to defend the voiceless, defenseless, and the weak! God says do not murder. Abortion=murder.
- Re: Question to Pro life Christians #29894
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This is a reply to # 706,420the voiceless and weak are also VICTIMS OF RAPE are you going to feed clothe house and educate all of the children from VICTIMS OF RAPE/incest--and i bet that there are thousands of those! I say put your money where your mouth is.
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This is a reply to # 706,393Interesting question. Lets take your theory and apply it to other circumtances and see if it pans out.
Lets try rape. Why punish or keep a rapist from doing their thing...after all, they think it is fine to rape a person. We shouldn't judge. God will deal with this person.
How about stealing....lets not be judgemental, after all, we arent in the theif's shoes. We should force our morality on that person. God will deal with them.
Murder...same thing. Maybe they were driven to it by some awful circumstances...who are we to judge?
You see, some are sitting here saying that these offences are different because there is an unwilling victim. So there is in abortion also...just a victim that can't yell out for help or try to run away.
Far as abortion being a medical procedure...yes that is true and it is also true that it is the only procedure that does not have to be described in detail by the doctor before it takes place. Informed consent and all. And why do you think that is? Because if the patient is informed they would probably run for the hills.
And as far as imposing one's beliefs on others....the same can be said for the abortionists. After all, taxpayer money is spent to kill babies in this country and many of those taxpayers are against killing babies. Now that is truly imposing.- Re: Question to Pro life Christians #42407
18 y
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This is a reply to # 706,439Uh huh, and many taxpayers are killing innocent Iraqis and our Troops too, but does anyone care about that???
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