> Hi Lisa,

I know exactly what you mean. Click on my name and read a previous message I wrote. I didn't start getting my liver discomfort until I did my first cleanse. However, my discomfort gets a tad better with each cleanse. I am doing my 3rd cleanse this weekend. I really believe that as you get more stones out the ones that are still in the liver/gallbladder area have more room to circulate freely now. They no doubt are moving towards the exit pathway of your gallbladder causing this slight discomfort (same with me). I noticed it when I put on my bra or bend certain ways. Also, the discomfort is right in the gallbladder area to the mid left not mid right leading me to believe they are not stuck but ready to make an exit with the next cleanse. However, after my second flush it became less discomfortable. This best way I can picture it is - before you start cleansing they're all packed together and no room to move. Therefore, you may not in some cases ever feel any pain or discomfort. However, as soon as you start cleansing you are moving them around for the first time and freeing some of them. As I mentioned, I believe now the others are able to move more freely. I really believe when you have completed 6 or more flushes and totally stone free, you and me both won't feel this anymore. For more information on this visit - www.sensiblehealing.com

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I just found this forum, and this is my first append. First of all, let me say (like most of you) that it is so comforting to find out that you're not alone! I have been experiencing "strange symptoms" (primarily digestive) for almost 3 years now, and have tried all sorts of traditional as well as alternative treatments...things like: colonics, homeopathy, energy medicine, chiropractic, accupuncture, fasting, stool analysis -- not to mention the usual fun "procedures" like: colonoscopy, EGD (scope down throat), at least 5 blood tests (Hepatitis, H Pylori...), parasite tests, HIDA scan...and, of course, the ultrasound. They found no stones in 2 different scans.

My main symptoms today are a nagging back pain (upper right side), and pain in my lower right abdomen. I originally started down this Liver Cleansing path in July of 2001 using Julia's recommendations (www.sensiblehealth.com) of apple juice. By the way, this lady is fantastic. I've called her many times since I didnt' know anyone else that could even understand what I was talkng about. I did about 5 flushes between July and December of last year and got out 1 green stone the size of a blueberry...but LOTS of tan colored "chaff". It was about the size of almonds in their shell, and looked and felt like play-doh.

My back pain was getting pretty severe, so I decided to try Dr Clark's method with the Epsom Salts . The back pain went away about 30 minutes after I drank the first ES (about 6:30). I got out at least 500 stones in the first flush, with several fairly large ones (3/4"). I felt good (not great). The back pain returned in a few weeks. So I repeated the procedure, and got the same results (back pain, drank ES, no pain, good flush).

Here's the challenge and why I'm posting this long message as a reply: I have had pretty bad back pains, and both of my last 2 flushes have not relieved them. They feel much like the descriptions that I've read here (hurts more when breathing deeply). Both flushes resulted in 100's of stones...some fairly large....but the back pain remains. I also have an intermittent lower right abdominal pain (near appendix), which was my first indication that something was not right 3 years ago. Has anyone else ever had a dull pain down there due to GB? I've had my appendix checked and it seems OK.

It is a struggle for me to wait 2 weeks between flushes when I still have the pain. And worst of all, as you all know, are the doubts that "what if this doesn't work?" and "Am I doing the right thing?". I believe in this too much to quit.

I am still doing tests with my gastroenterologist because they "officially" found fat malabsorption in several tests (which I believe could be caused by blocked bile ducts). I also have high cholesterol and triglycerides.

My Stats: 40 yr old male, 5-6, avg weight, eat pretty healthy, exercise as much as this will let me...and, just for some added fun, am father of 22 month old B/G twins! It's been a challenging few years...

Again...it's unbelievably comforting to read all of your comments since none of my friends/family understand this. I wonder how "rare" this problem really is?

Thanks.

John



> I just finished my 3rd flush a couple of days ago, and had excellent results. I passed about 140 stones, and a few of them were the biggest yet. One was about 1 inch wide, and several were marble sized. The rest were black eyed pea size or smaller. I would expect that after my flush, I would feel quite a bit better for an extended period of time. But I usually feel about the same as I did before the flush. I never have had what I would consider a gallbladder attack. I've had a few times when my upper right abdomen feels more uncomfortable than usual, but other than that, it's just a tight pulling feeling that's fairly constant. For those of you who have had genuine attacks, it seems like its the attack that gets most of the attention. What about the times in between the attacks? Are you completely pain free? Do you still have an "unwell" sensation in your upper right quadrant? Are you completely fine until the next attack? If you do feel tightness or discomfort between times, is it pretty constant? I seem to have certain positions that make it more noticeable. If I stretch certain ways, or take a really deep breath and pull my stomach muscles in, it's more noticeable. I can't really push on it and feel anything. It's often related to certain movements or sleeping positions. I have another message on here somewhere giving all my vital statistics and answering a ton of questions, which Agnes or Lilian asked me another time. (Caucasian female, 30 years old, 4 children, had same pain 2 years ago for several months, nothing showed up on ultrasound or CT scan, liver function was good, no hepatitis, pain eventually went away, came back 3-4 months ago, etc. . .. no jauncice, haven't had a recent ultrasound.) It seems to me that since I've never had a true, grueling attack, that if my gallbladder was just packed with little stones, these flushes would cause the tightness to just ease up a little bit. But it hasn't seemed to get any better overall. I am the most symptom free the night of the flush after taking Epsom Salts , but the next day after I pass the stones, the discomfort gradually comes back each time. Again, nothing gut-wrenching. Just a steady discomfort. I don't really believe that each time I'm getting a stray stone stuck in the ducts that just didn't quite make it out. It would seem highly coincidental for that to happen 3 times. I'm going to keep flushing until I get them all out, but I guess I'm worried that I'll get them all out and I'll still have the discomfort after all this work. Could my liver/gallbladder be inflammed or swollen, and that's what's causing the problem? Perhaps its something other than stones. Help please!
> Lisa

Lisa,

Actually the website isn't sensiblehealing, it is www.sensiblehealth.com

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