Definition of Christian? 
blueskyy
20 y
2,362
† Cross †
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This blurb is taken from the website www.ReligiousTolerance.org (link included below).
Which definition is correct?
This question assumes that there is one and only one correct definition of the term "Christian." However, depending upon your understanding of the nature of truth, all of the above definitions may be "true":
To conservative Protestants, a Christian is often defined according to their salvation status. Their definition is "true" to them, because it agrees with some of their foundational beliefs: that the Bible is inerrant, that salvation is by grace, and that one must be "born-again" to be saved and avoid eternal punishment in Hell.
To Roman Catholics, a Christian is often defined according to their baptism status. Their definition is "true" to them, because it agrees with their fundamental beliefs, including their understanding of the Bible, the declarations of many Church Councils, the statements of many popes, and their church's tradition.
To many in the very early Christian movement, a Christian was defined as a person who was baptized and proclaimed "Jesus is Lord." Their definition was "true" to them because it agreed with their understanding of their religious belief at a time when the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) had not yet been written and assembled.
And so on, with the remaining definitions.
Each group has their own definition of "Christian" which agrees with their own beliefs about the nature of Jesus, God, church tradition, written text, evolved theology, etc. There appears to be no way to compromise on a single definition that is acceptable to all. One apparently cannot call on a higher power to resolve the problem, because there seems to be no way to assess the will of God on such matters. If there were such a method, then different definitions would have been harmonized centuries ago. People would simply have prayed to God and asked Him to define what a Christian is. Then, a consensus would exist today on the true meaning of the word "Christian."
There is no consensus on what the "correct" definition of "Christian" is. There is only a near consensus within individual faith groups. Therefore questions like "Are you a Christian?" or "How many Christians are there in the U.S." are only meaningful:
Within a single denomination, or among a group of similarly-minded denominations.
In a public opinion poll where the definition of "Christian" is clearly stated.
The definition used on this web site:
We accept as Christian any individual or group who devoutly, thoughtfully, seriously, and prayerfully regards themselves to be Christian. Included are: the Roman Catholic church; the Eastern Orthodox churches, conservative, mainline, and liberal Christian faith groups; The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons); Jehovah's Witnesses and a thousand or so other religious organizations who view themselves as Christian.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn3.htm
More
- Re: Definition of Christian? PBC
20 y
2,485
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 635,417Well...the only way to know whether one is a wheat Christian or tare Christian(not a Christian at all) is to discover what God says. He has 2 groups of people...children of the day and children of the night. Humans rarely come close when they put other labels on folks and then try to squeeze God into their box. :-)- Re: blueskyy
20 y
2,292
This is a reply to # 635,418That was nicely put. Very warlike, though.
You know, other people may find their path back to God in places you don't recognize or acknowledge, and within belief systems that you consider the 'adversary'.
You mentioned God's adversary? It does not compute for me. God is love and God is all that is. God is inclusive, not exclusive.
I get the feeling you mean 'your' adversaries. You have just rubber stamped your 'war in heaven' with the seal of God. Neat trick.
You realize it's not a war unless you pick an enemy to fight. How can we all ever hope to become 'one' if we don't call a truce, and learn love, tolerance, compassion and understanding, I wonder?
You wrote:
"We all do share what our heart condition reveals, right? It's valuable to me as a follower of Christ to share what I believe and share the foundation for that belief..."
Couldn't have put it better myself. However, I trust you don't share it with a sword *grin*
;0)
Wiz
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
That was nicely put. Very warlike, though.
You know, other people may find their path back to God in places you don't recognize or acknowledge, and within belief systems that you consider the 'adversary'.
You mentioned God's adversary? It does not compute for me. God is love and God is all that is. God is inclusive, not exclusive.
I get the feeling you mean 'your' adversaries. You have just rubber stamped your 'war in heaven' with the seal of God. Neat trick.
You realize it's not a war unless you pick an enemy to fight. How can we will all hope to become 'one' if we don't call a truce, and learn love, tolerance, compassion and understanding, I wonder?
You wrote:
"We all do share what our heart condition reveals, right? It's valuable to me as a follower of Christ to share what I believe and share the foundation for that belief..."
Couldn't have put it better myself. However, I trust you don't share it with a sword *grin*
;0)
Wiz
More
- Re: PBC
20 y
2,321
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 635,420It was a little vague and I apologize. God looks at folks as being either "in Adam" or "in Christ, "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit", "children of day" or "children of the night" for examples...He doesn't have labels such as conservative, liberal, Protestant, Catholic or those such as in the forum description concerning followers of Christ. It's either haves or have nots...not different flavors of haves(which means there are different interpretations that lend to the flavors) plus have nots when it comes to spiritual condition. Hope that helps!- Re: blueskyy
20 y
2,246
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 635,421That does help. Thank you so much.
I see God as being incredibly creative. I mean look at all the different species of animals and plants that were created. I see spirituality the same way. God doesn't have one pat answer for everyone. We are all on our own path.
It is nice that we are able to learn from each other. Thanks for sharing!- Re: PBC
20 y
2,259
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
This is a reply to # 635,428You're welcome! Yes, God is incredibly creative. Just as with the designs of animals, plants, and man...there is an intended "walk" for each design. Even in the days of creation, none were created without what was needed for survival and completeness being supplied first. Veering off on a path without Him leads to demise; sin is nasty and doesn't always wave a red flag saying how deep it can take a person or how long they might stay. Some do and think a path they've chosen is a path to Him...but unfortunately find that while one side of the sign may say that way leads to God, a day will come when they find out that the other side reveals differently. Take care...nice to talk with you!
- Re: PBC
20 y
2,259
- Re: blueskyy
20 y
2,246
- The elect and the lost souls? Wiz
20 y
2,169
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Lose Weight Naturally
With a 9 day detox
This is a reply to # 635,420I would guess.
...or the saints and the sinners, or the good guys and the bad guys.
If we could only resolve that duality, then we could all be the children of God, couldn't we?
I liked you definition, BTW. However, I could simplify it even further:
Followers of the teachings of Jesus.
Period.
That should include just about everyone....
;0)
Wiz
- Re: The elect and the lost souls? PBC
20 y
2,344
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Lose Weight Naturally
With a 9 day detox
This is a reply to # 635,422Problem is dead men don't resolve. Dead men are powerless to do anything...they're dead! When it comes to spiritual deadness, a person even has to be enabled to see what will restore life and to respond to it. Everyone isn't a follower of the teachings of Jesus...He said so and I believe it.- very enigmatic... Wiz
20 y
2,173
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solut...
Dr. Clark Shop
Hulda Clark Cleanses
- Re: very enigmatic... PBC
20 y
2,259
This is a reply to # 635,441People are spiritually blind because they inherited that blindness/nature thru the lineage of humanity of Adam(just as my children could inherit something physical from their parents we all inherited the lacking of Adam). They're dead spiritually. In order to even see or want to respond to something spiritually of God, He has to enable a person to do so. Everyone doesn't, therefore, follow the teachings of Jesus. It's not an automatic thing...not a thing for everyone even confronted with truth, and even some that do latch on to the teachings such as Ghandi did are doing so in their own strength so no brownie points gained either. Clearer...or can you help me understand what you need me to better explain?
- Not really. Wiz
20 y
2,250
This is a reply to # 635,452I am just trying to understand your seemingly exclusive point of view, and to tell you the truth, you aren't very succinct in making your points.
So then, just so I don't misunderstand, are all others that don't believe as you do (or rather as your version of God enables them to) 'spiritually blind' or 'dead spiritually'?
And Gandhi gets no brownie points for what? Not following the teachings of Jesus even though he was a 'great old soul' and a world renowned spiritual leader? What do you regard as brownie points?
Can you be specific?
;0)
Wiz
- Re: Not really. PBC
20 y
2,267
This is a reply to # 635,457aha...you recognize that humans aren't perfect! I have to grab a Thesaurus to get some of what you share with me! lol
Here is food for thought...do you think that there is one God with many versions of Himself or one God and one truth shared of Himself for everyone? I believe the Bible is the inerrant and plenary Logos written expression of God while Jesus is the incarnate Logos. I don't find it to contradict itself when much effort is put into self/flesh decreasing and Spirit increasing. It says and means what He intended when we don't get in the way...we are born without a Spirit nature and He provides what we need to regain that communion with the God that is perfect/holy. The Bible says that God is evident in creation...when folks don't exchange that truth for a lie by worshipping the creation rather than the Creator, He has a way of making sure they have an opportunity for further truth found in the special revelation of Jesus Christ revealed in Scripture. Remember that people were believers from the time of Cain and Abel that didn't even have the entire book that I have at my disposal now...yet people that have the entire book at their disposal today tend to do as in the Garden of Eden: "Hath God said?".
Ghandi claimed Jesus to be a great Teacher while adhering to many of His teachings...something many people do today even. He got no brownie points toward righteousness by doing works. Works follow imputed righteousness...they aren't a means of achieving. Ghandi taught a righteousness by human works...doesn't cut the mustard, so to say, with God who requires His righteousness provision and gift of Jesus to be received to make right what ails a person from Romans 1 thru 3:21. The word "but" in 3:21 is pivital between those under the Law(which only reveals a man can't keep it perfectly and trying to only adds more human death wage required to satisfy the sin-debt ledger) before that verse and those covered thru faith in Jesus Christ as revealed beginning with verse 21.
- Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that exp... Wiz
20 y
2,259
This is a reply to # 635,462Just kidding, however you have Luther's point of view. Good works don't matter. It is simply belief and faith that counts.
Couple of things.
"Here is food for thought...do you think that there is one God with many versions of Himself or one God and one truth shared of Himself for everyone?"
There is one God and he is everywhere, in everything. We are small sparks of God, broken away and cast temporarily into physical reality. We are not separate from God. God is within us all. And every major religion and spiritual disciple points the way towards the path back to the Creator in some manner. They all wear different clothes and speak with different words, but the underlying message is the same.
"we are born without a Spirit nature and He provides what we need to regain that communion with the God that is point out."
We are eternal souls that incarnate again and again on our journey back to God, learning the lessons we need to in each life so that we can grow and mature spiritually until we are ready to leave this plane and resume our 'dance with eternity'. This is one of the teachings that was written out of Christianty, and it is very unfortunate that it was.
"He (Ghandi) got no brownie points toward righteousness by doing works."
That doesn't make sense, I am sorry to have to have to point out. If you live a good, meaningful life and aid and assist in the spiritual growth of your fellow souls, with love tolerance and compassion for all, that is good work and is righteous.
I have to take issue with those Christians who believe that faith alone is their salvation. That is a just a bit self centered in my opinion. You aren't judged, you know, by a jealous, vengeful God at the end of your days on whether you 'believed' or not.
On a soul level, you will be your own harshest judge if you put yourself front of others. You will determine in between lives by yourself (and with the aid of your spirit guides and higher self) if you have learned the lessons you choose to learn, and evolved spiritually by selfless acts and good works or whether you were selfish and simply took, but did not give in return.
;0)
Wiz
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
Just kidding, however you have Luther's point of view. Good works don't matter. It is simply belief and faith that counts.
Couple of things.
"Here is food for thought...do you think that there is one God with many versions of Himself or one God and one truth shared of Himself for everyone?"
There is one God and he is everywhere, in everything. We are small sparks of God, broken away and cast temporarily into physical reality. We are not separate from God. God is within us all. And every major religion and spiritual disciple points the way towards the path back to the Creator in some manner. They all wear different cloths and speak with different words, but the underlying message is the same.
"we are born without a Spirit nature and He provides what we need to regain that communion with the God that is point out."
We are eternal souls that incarnate again and again on our journey back to God, learning the lessons we need to in each life so that we can grow and mature spiritually until we are ready to leave this plane and resume our 'dance with eternity'. This is one of the teachings that was writen out of Christianty, and it is very unfortunate that it was.
"He (Ghandi) got no brownie points toward righteousness by doing works."
That doesn't make sense, I am sorry to have to have to point out. If you live a good, meaningful life and aid and assist in the spiritual growth of your fellow souls, with love tolerance and compassion for all, that is good work and is righteous.
I have to take issue with those Christians who believe that faith alone is their salvation. That is a just a bit self centered in my opinion. You aren't judged, you know, by a jealous, vengeful God at the end of your days on whether you 'believed' or not.
On a soul level, you will be your own harshest judge if you put yourself front of others. You will determine in between lives by yourself (and with the aid of your spirit guides and higher self) if you have learned the lessons you choose to learn, and evolved spiritually by selfless acts and good works or whether you were selfish and simply took, but did not give in return.
;0)
Wiz
- Re: Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that... #30230
20 y
2,384
This is a reply to # 635,467
Here's the issue:
You don't believe the bible, am I right? The things you say are what lead me to this conclusion. If you did believe the bible then you would know simple things like mans righteousness is but a filthy rag unto God, that all man have fallen short of the glory of God, that there is none good, none that seeketh after God, it is God that makes a difference. He predestines all according to His own pleasure. He ordains all things even your unbelief. Thats the God of the bible.
- No, the 'God of the bible' is not my... Wiz
20 y
2,329
This is a reply to # 635,471I thought you had read many of my posts about how history shows that the new testament was doctored to fit the agenda of the early church fathers, how many relevant books were omitted, and how I look to the Gnostics and Essenes for a clearer picture of the original teachings of Jesus.
Therefore, the bible and most current Christian doctrine means little to me, aside form having a historical interest in how it was added on top the original teachings. I have found the answers I need from other sources...
;0)
Wiz- Thanks for the answer #30230
20 y
2,367
This is a reply to # 635,475
I just prefered a direct answer and couldn't recall if that had been asked and answered before.
- Thanks for the answer #30230
20 y
2,367
- No, the 'God of the bible' is not my... Wiz
20 y
2,329
- Re: Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that... Eileen45
20 y
2,177
This is a reply to # 635,467Wiz,
I am so glad that I believe in a God that is outside of this realm; world; time and space, who is holding it all together and is holy and righteous and trustworthy. A personal God, who created me and knew me even in my mother's womb and loved me so much that He came into this reality as a man in order to save me from self-destruction. I have lived without this understanding and I have been without hope or purpose, because I recognize the sinfulness of my own soul and the futility of trying to be good (how good is good enough?)! And yet, now that I have a relationship (for He is my "Abba" "Father") I can go to Him - a personal God and have a conversation and seek healing, forgiveness and restoration. I believe that we must work while we are here - the bible even says that faith without works is dead! We must be more loving - because the bible says that the world will know that we are Christians by our love! This is a good thing, and the sign of a sinner who has received abundant grace (for where sin abounds...grace abounds all the more). We love, serve, and work out of gratitude and also out of love and compassion for all of humanity. I am glad that I don't have to rely on my good works though, to get to heaven because I know that I would not make it! So...I rely on the grace of God to get me to heaven through the work on the cross, period...but also seek to honor Him in this life by sharing that grace with others through acts of love and service. I am also glad that I don't have to go through this again - it hasn't been all that great so far~!! That when I die...my spirit will go straight into the presence of the most holy and almighty God where He has prepared a place just for me!
Blessings,
E- Wonderfully put Wiz
20 y
2,138
This is a reply to # 635,472I don't happen to agree with some of it, but I can't deny the spirit in which you present it.
"I am glad that I don't have to rely on my good works though, to get to heaven because I know that I would not make it! So...I rely on the grace of God to get me to heaven through the work on the cross,..."
We have a very fundamental difference in views here. I do not believe in the death and resurrection and redemption of sins through the cross for starters. The Passion doesn't resonate with me. I don't require it for my spiritual evolution. However, if it works for you... that's fine.
Also, we are eternal souls and we keep incarnating on the physical plane until we 'get it'. To me, there is no place called heaven, unless we want to create it out of the mid-astral plane as a temporary stop-over in between lives until we take our next evolutionary step, whether it be in spirit or in another incarnation...
;0)
Wiz
- Wonderfully put Wiz
20 y
2,138
- Re: Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that... PBC
20 y
2,211
This is a reply to # 635,467Oh, I'm far from Luther's thinking...Lutherans still baptize babies to initiate them into the kingdom of God and think they will believe when they are older to confirm the reality accomplished in the water baptism. Luther still dabbed in a little works while understanding grace, too...but was headed in the right direction overall in not wanting what he had previously. I believe works are VERY important...but they follow faith instead of providing it. :-)
So you are Mormon??? Maybe not...trying to understand what perspective you speak??? Ghandi may have done works that were considered to be good and of a righteous flavor(hmmm, even he knew there was a standard higher than himself) but doing so didn't make him righteous. See the difference?
"I" won't be judged at all at the end of my days...works will be though and those done by walking after the Spirit will remain while works done by walking after the flesh won't. I'll remain in good standing with God because of what I did positively concerning the truth of Jesus as redeemer while alive. God only judges those that didn't judge themselves properly as needing Him while alive concerning destiny...see? Spirit guides? Really? Holy Spirit as my comforter and guide...singular. Higher self? That is the problem...self must decrease while He increases and why many won't come to the end of themselves to have Him do all He requries for them, too! We do think with different minds, huh? I'm yielding mine to the mind of Christ...and you are yielding to ??? , if you don't mind me asking.
- Re: Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that... #30230
20 y
2,384
- Re: Not really. #30230
20 y
2,102
This is a reply to # 635,462If you believe in God and His Word then you know there is only one God, one faith and one baptism. That is not based on an opinion.
©†ƒ……•™¼‡_Original_Message_¾€š½ž¢«»¬ï°©
If you believe in God and His Word then you know there is only one God, one faith and one baptism. That is not based on an opinion.
(Joh 5:21 KJV) For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
quickeneth - zoopoieo - Greek - for make alive.
This term is used several times in the NT.
- Re: Not really. PBC
20 y
2,267
This is a reply to # 635,468I believe that...do you think I said differently somewhere I'm not seeing or were you responding to another poster and I'm seeing it as a response to something I said??? :-)
- So you say... Wiz
20 y
2,321
- Re: Not really. PBC
20 y
2,267
- Ah ha, you're a Lutheran... that exp... Wiz
20 y
2,259
- Re: Not really. PBC
20 y
2,267
- Not really. Wiz
20 y
2,250
- Re: very enigmatic... PBC
20 y
2,259
- very enigmatic... Wiz
20 y
2,173
- Re: The elect and the lost souls? PBC
20 y
2,344
- Re: PBC
20 y
2,321
- Re: blueskyy
20 y
2,292
- Re: Definition of Christian? A. What... #30230
20 y
2,300
This is a reply to # 635,417If any man will come after me....
Luke 9:23 If any man will come after me let him deny himself and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
deny - aparneomai - To contradict, disown, to confirm that one has no connection with a person.
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
disciple - mathetes - a learner, pupil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is an absolute impossibility to be a Christian without self denial. The believer must disown and confirm no connection with his Fleshly Affection, desires and opinions (self) if he is to follow Jesus. Mathetes (disciple) comes from our word math. To learn mathematics or the Word of God one must go by the rules of the book only. Self-opinions and traditions are of no consequence. The cross is daily. A man must contradict his very nature: self indulgence, self esteem, self importance, self advancement, etc. or he cannot be a follower of Christ. Self must die and Christ must live in us if we are to follow Him, otherwise a man cannot be His disciple. The only way to avoid the cross is to follow the world to hell.
Christian = To be like Christ
ps - I know many of you won't like this definition but its not my explanation. Most ppl want an EASY way and that simply is not possible. There is mention of another jesus in the bible, maybe you should consider which it is that you serve.
- Re: Definition of Christian? PBC
20 y
2,485
Share:
Translate This Page: