with 750,000 iatrogenic deaths a year in the dbble blind study approved establishment allopathic medicine, who cares about your rants!
People dont go to the establishment meds after failure in alternatives, it's the other way around. People are turning more and more to alternatives from the huge failure rate of allopathic psuedo science!

Why don't you read the Liver Debate from pages 25 to 32, starting with the Lancet article titled, "Could these be gallstones?" There you will read arguments put forth by someone of your persuation who believes in the scientific integrity of those double blind experiments most of your fellow believers are so fond of quoting. Despite mountains of evidence to the contrary you see honesty where there isn't any. (Unless of course you don't know the definition of a true scientific experiment--that wouldn't be you would it?) When you don't have integrity and honesty in double bind experiments, you do not have anything of value.

Face it the only reason you are mentioning double-blind is because you don't believe any alternative treatment can stand up to it. Not because you are willing to see the outcome. If you wanted to wait and see the experimental outcome, you would have read this website and become informed and you would not have asked the questions you did.

Just to pick out one small item of many in your post, you said doctors don't mention herbs because there isn't anything scientific to say about them (laugh, laugh). What classes in the scientific method do doctors have? They are not scientists. Which is why they believe junk Science like that article I mentioned printed in the oh, so, prestigious, peer-reviewed journal, The Lancet.

Do you really belive in your scientific standards? Where is the control group in the Lancet article? Without a control group you don't have a scientific experiment.
Look at the experimental studies of chemotherapy drugs or many other drugs. They do not use control groups. These studies are not scientific. Yet these pepetrators are not sued. Why? And doctors quote those studies and recommend their results.

What wonder drug have they (doctors) recommended lately that was alledgedly scientifically proven? How about Vioxx? Merck just lost something like $240 million in a lawsuit over deaths caused by this "proven drug that is safe, efficacious, etc, and this has been borne out by years of close scrutiny." (lol) According to you Vioxx is safe and you want everyone to believe you. This is a drug like the ones you recommend. This example would make one wonder if you now what you are talking about when it comes to scientific standards and who passes them and who really does not pass them.

Years of close scrutiny would somehow miss hundreds of deaths and heart attacks? Or does the scientist who lacks integrity see the deaths and write up them as something else? Is there honesty in this action?

And why would someone want to use only a pure extract when it has been proven that it won't work as well as when the extract is supported by its surrounding bio/chemicals in the herb? Only someone who is familiar with his field and hasn't done any reading in the field of Alternative Medicine, but is trying to act like an expert by making fun of something he doesn't know.

>>>>>>>>>>>>"I once took alternative medicine on faith. For decades, I practiced it on patients and myself and my family, and assumed that pretty much all of it worked. Then I learned about double-blind studies, and it was like a tornado blowing down a house of cards. I discovered that I, like most people who love alternative medicine, had made a huge (though understandable) mistake."<<<<<<<<<<<<<


This is coming from a guy who practiced medicine for decades without knowing what a double-blind study is. This not only destroys his credibility, it is so far fetched that I am inclined to think this story is made up for dramatic purposes to cover the failures in logic (what is this guy trying to sell?). I also question the legal or otherwise general ability to become *any* kind of doctor with such naivety and lack of education. He admits to blindly following a broadly classified form of treatment for decades, then his whole profession is turned upside down in a EUREKA! moment, and *now* claims to be fully informed as to what to treat his patients with.

Not only that, he goes on to project his incompetence on "everyone else in alternative medicine", as if to justify his incompetence by saying everyone else was just as stupid as he was, to undermine the whole alternative community based on his revelation of a grade school concept called double-blind studies. DO NOT assume that your incompetence as a doctor reflects the incompetence of others, including your patients. You said they made a huge mistake for following your own medical advice... and then tell them that *now* you really know what you are talking about.

Curezone gets these attacks fairly often, or a claim of a new revolutionary way of looking at proof such as the one you proposed ("become a skeptic!") or trying to school us on how we should accept proof. Meanwhile they try to convince us that they are neutral and unbiased, but the truth leaks out of them eventually in their increasingly ill-tempered fervor. Yours is just another "faith based" slam on alternative treatments. Faith in Big Medicine, in having to hold the status of "DOCTOR" with magical pharmaceuticals and the ego and money that goes along with it. Methinks you came to a conclusion before you considered the evidence, and now you have something more lucrative to sell... It's a shame because at one point you probably got into alternative medicine to truly help others. Maybe you sold out your ideals for the money. (What are you trying to sell now?)


>>>>>>>>>>>>"I once took alternative medicine on faith."<<<<<<<<<<<<<


He just traded sides, that's all. Now he takes Big Medicine on faith. If he wasn't so intent on labeling sides, he might find that Curezone is not all about dogmatic polarization of two sides. Most of us on Curezone are not the blind followers that you attempt to classify us as, like the blind follower you admit to being for decades. We are the skeptics who question all treatments, yes we are already that which you say you are trying to become - skeptics! Seems we are already one step ahead of you doctor. We are not primarily alternative Big Medicine, we are alternative THINKING. We often dismiss "alternative treatments" here on Curezone because we choose for ourselves on an individual basis instead of blindly following a doctor's advice. We are a group of individuals here for ourselves - in other words we do not need your doctoring expertise here to function - we don't need your permission or a prescription to treat ourselves. It's not that you are unwanted here, you just aren't needed. Is that why you are leaving alternative medicine? We are the skeptics in a world of faith based doctor worshipers. Looks like you, doc, are looking for followers to worship you instead of truly being the skeptics that we are.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Given unlimited monetary resources, totally unbiased scientists, the highest-tech equipment in the world, perfect experimental design; in other words, the perfect study: would you submit your favorite alternative remedy to be tested?"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


You are proposing a world that we do not live in. The only way the perfect study would happen is if our government was restructured in some way as to sponsor and make all these studies equal. No private entity has enough money or resources to go up against Big Medicine.

Further, they do not do "randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled studies" for stuff on Curezone. Have they done one yet for a Liver Flush that's been around for centuries? How about oregano oil? Apple cider vinegar? Why not? Wouldn't they have to if you were to make a fair judgment when comparing Big Medicine treatments to Alternative Medicine treatments? You do not have a scientific comparison of the two, so it doesn't matter how much proof Big Medicine has. Without an equal chance to prove alternative medicine, your trial is bogus.

Think they will ever test these things? Go ahead and raise the millions of dollars needed to overcome the corrupt government requirements to label these alternative treatments, find which are legit... and then try to get the word out. Try to market oregano oil if you find out that it cures cancer or the common cold. Who's gonna believe you? Your research claims will just be another $2 info pamphlet at the health food store, competing with million dollar ads for Big Medicine patentable drugs in every advertising media outlet. Good luck!

The thing most have to understand to be able to have an educated discussion about the vast area of alternative medicines is that 'double-blind' studies are designed with pharmaceuticals in mind only. Demanding that they be tested in this way only exposes the lack of knowledge. Most alternative medicines do not work on the bloodstream, they work on an energetic level, pharmaceuticals do not.
Thousands of years of knowledge exists on natural remedies, that is why they are favored.
ltbh