Magnesium plays a key role in cardiovascular health. Along with Vit E, I knew a man who reversed CHF with this combination. He used UltraMag from Source Naturals and the best vitamin E you can buy, A.C. Grace. It is important to read the dosing instructions on their site (AC Grace).

Calcium channel blockers are needed b/c calcium becomes too high relative to magnesium. If you raise magnesium then calcium drops. High calcium is known to cause trouble because of its magnesium suppressing properties. There are many studies posted on NIH Medline concerning this .

Magnesium also plays a pivotal role in potassium balance. It also plays a role in sodium. Sodium is intracellular while potassium is extracellular meaning potassium has a relaxing effect on the cells while sodium constricts. The same holds true for cal/mag balance.


It is best to check mineral status through a lab such as Trace Elements which can be done cost effective. This will give you some readings on the mineral balances. Serum testing of minerals is problematic and generally not a good measure of minerals stores in the body.

HeartCare from Himalaya is a good product you might want to speak to your doctor about. It contains many boosting herbs including arjuna which has been used by Ayurvedic medicine for a long time.

And as the other poster stated, Vitamin C is perhaps a miracle.

>She is 64 and has diabetes type 2 and hypertension, along with rheumoatic arthritis. For her diabetes, she takes metformin.

Hello Raiman91,

I am older than your grandmother and have the diagnosis of CHF. I'll not go into a bunch of stuff about myself - there's too much. But I've spent a fair amount of my time trying to help myself medically and I'd like to share some of it here, for your grandmother and anyone else who's interested in a non-professional's medical opinions. I share my conclusions based on my own experiences, plus some reading in authoritative medical areas. I ask that you please not confuse my thinking with that of a doctor's; I have no medical degree of any kind. Stipulating that, here's what I'm wishing for your grandmother and for anyone else in similar shoes to your grandmother:

DON'T TAKE METFORMIN. When I started on that drug, it worked out fine for awhile. I thought. But problems tend to sneak up on you when there's an effect on kidney function, and then when you start noticing things like a huge amount of swelling, it's too late to avoid getting started on some kidney damage.

I'm not saying that I know your Grandmother's current edema comes from kidney damage - only that if she keeps going on this drug, she exposes herself to a greater risk for decreasing kidney function than otherwise would have occurred. When I started on Glucophage (metformin's original name brand), there was an insert with the drug for physicians that warned that it should not be prescribed for patients of age 65 or older, since the risk of kidney damage for anyone increased some with the use of this drug, and the elderly were at the greatest risk. And that of course it should never be used for patients with already established kidney disease.

Little point here: most patients don't know they're on the way toward a speedy reduction in kidney function until it has already started happening. And no one knows at what point it's going to start to happen in the future until it does. But diabetic patients are known to be at greater risk for kidney disease overall than an ordinary healthy person. The whole idea of using this drug makes no good sense to me now, given that it's expressly FOR patients who are diabetic.

The kidneys have to work hard to rid the body of metformin. The kidneys also tend to have to work harder for diabetic patients than for a non-diabetic. And if the diabetic patient finds that they do so much better on a high protein diet than one that's high in carbs, well, the kidneys have to work a ton harder than is ideal for them. Add to those problems the fact that if the diabetic patient has high blood pressure, well, the kidneys get worn out with high blood pressure problems too. Add up all those things, and diabetic patients as they age tend to have a hugely increased chance of also becoming a kidney disease patient. So it behooves you at the earliest possible moments to go light on the work of the kidneys where you can.

The kidneys tend to wear out normally over time, given a long enough life of doing their work for the body. The average 70-year old has an average GFR (a measure of kidney function) of 70%. That's if things are going well - normally!

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've read a kidney patient disclose that they suddenly found themselves needing dialysis after a single doctor's visit, where they'd had no idea whatsoever that their kidney function had been going downhill over time. Or that they discovered that within two or three months they had to go on dialysis.

DON'T count on your grandmother's doctor to let you know if the GFR is going downhill unhealthily fast. And DON'T count on a doctor to even know or remember that metformin could be the reason for the speeding up of the downhill results on GFR testing.

Keep track of your grandmother's GFR yourself. Avoid anything that puts a strain on the kidneys that is reasonable to avoid. Avoid things like Aleve. I used to take a ton of that stuff every single day (all kinds of pain relief needed here), until my doctor let me know that Aleve is really, really hard on the kidneys. I'm very, very sure that Aleve also entered into the formulation for why I got kidney disease at an early point. But every doctor I had, including my original endocrinologist knew I was in pain and taking a lot of pain relievers daily, and my GFR was down to 30% before anyone mentioned that as something to avoid.

Don't count on a doctor to tell you everything you need to know as soon as it might do you some good to know it; study up on your own.

For pain, one thing that might help some is to take Bromelain on an empty stomach. As far as I know at this point, Bromelain doesn't noticeably affect the load on the kidneys. Other over-the-counter supplements she might take for pain would be passion flower, valerian, and kava-kava. (Don't drive while taking these until you know how they affect you and for how long, and don't pile these three on top of one another.)

When I elected to take myself off Metformin - thanks to reading that prescription's professional insert, not my doctor's awareness of the potential kidney problem - I was still in my late 50's. Depending on other individual health factors, this drug might be unsafe at any age, in my opinion. Over several years' time on Glucophage while still in my 50's, I had gotten into pretty bad shape with edema. But the edema and my breathing ability improved miraculously when I stopped taking the drug on my own and based on no other changes. I don't think my kidney function was ever nearly as good again, though. I went downhill overall fast, past that point after I had started to swell up badly on Glucophage.

I had asked to go onto insulin about a year or two prior to that, and was satisfied with that decision, given that I was measuring the blood Sugar regularly at home and adjusting dosage appropriately, as best I could on the diet I was on. Because of the insulin, dropping Glucophage brought me nothing but relief and at the same time didn't hurt my glucose control. (Aside: I had to drop another drug a couple of years later. That one caused even worse problems with horrible edema and also chest pain: Avandia. I am not a big one for taking drugs any more. I avoid all drugs I can possibly avoid. I was on Lipitor for a good while and eventually took myself off of that one too: myalgia. I think I almost died from taking Lipitor, truly.)

I'd recommend considering insulin for your grandmother, though if she is still at the point where diet and exercise might do the job after sufficient weight loss, then of course that would be a ton better.

Before jumping into anything medically, inform yourself better by reading the writings of a medical professional who truly does know something about diabetes: Richard K. Bernstein, MD. Search on his name on the internet. You don't have to buy his book if you want to save money. There's lots of information and advice on his website and within his forums to get you started on being a smarter influence on your diabetic grandmother. Be sure to view all six of his video presentations (given to some medical students, I think. He was a medical school professor too.). Do be prepared for some extreme loudness at the end of each YouTube segment.

Before absorbing everything from Dr. Bernstein, she might ease into the low-carb approach by following a paleo diet. It's less strict as to the carb numbers recommended, and so many people have been on that diet for extended periods of time it probably will be easier for her in the short time frame. Bernstein's carb numbers to shoot for will do her the most good, but a paleo approach will help significantly. I don't know that it matter what paleo book you read, but the one I like is by Mark Sisson: "The Primal Blueprint." Forget the theoretical stuff about what our ancestors ate; just use this book because it works for people with a metabolic syndrome problem to lose weight. Mark also has a website that your grandmother might visit often to help keep her inspired.

She CAN lose weight, regardless of whether she can exercise or not. I have severe orthopedic problems and managed to lose 100 pounds without exercising. Don't pay attention to anyone who tells you that only by following some arbitrary or scientific rules it's possible to improve someone's weight or health situation.

If she needs to lose weight, then doing so will help everything that's wrong with her.

So will fixing her digestive issues, whatever they might be at this point. (Just a guess here... based on too much personal experience and a lot of reading up on the causes of various serious issues that diabetics tend to get over time.) Take Betaine HCL before every meal, and try some Ox Bile supplements too in low dosages - more ox bile with higher fat meals. Take a high-powered enzymatic mix with each meal or snack too: I'd suggest either "3-in-1" by Purely Scientific or "Digest Spectrum" by Enzymedica.

I'd recommend moderate amounts of protein in her weight reduction, not the heavy amounts that might be fine for a younger person or for anyone with no kidney disease worries. (Tell her that pure unrefined coconut oil is a great help.)

Don't go by the recommendations of the American Diabetes Association. I don't say they don't mean well, but their advice is tempered by what they think an average patient wants to hear and will be willing to follow regarding carbohydrate consumption. Dr. Bernstein, an actual diabetic patient himself, hasn't let those arbitrary aims determine his advice; what he advises is based on medical research and experience. For a long time I tried to go by ADA advice for years and, like so many others, my diabetes kept getting worse and worse. Predictably.

A supplement that might be less likely to cause harm than metformin is Good State GlycoX with Berberine HCL Capsules, 500 mg. Some users tend to think it does for them about as much glucose control as a similar dosage of metformin. I've tried GlycoX and take it about 15 minutes before a meal when I remember. It doesn't do a whole lot for me - just a little bit of improvement - but I think it probably would have had a large impact if I had started taking it twenty or thirty years ago. I've seen no harmful effects from taking GlycoX - from either of its two ingredients, both of which together might be better than either one separately.

There are zillions of other supplements that might have some slight effects on diabetes, or that some people believe might help them a bit with mild cases of diabetes. Of those supplements that I've tried (I think I've tried most of them), the ones that I'm guessing have had a little more discernible bit of effectiveness include Benfotiamine and R-Lipoic Acid (or Alpha Lipoic Acid). How much of an effect any supplements can have will be an individualized matter. For someone who truly needs insulin, nothing is likely remove that need, though the more you can reduce the amount of insulin consumed, the better off you'll be.

In terms of finding a real "cure" for diabetes through supplements, some particular minerals or plants, I think I'd know if such a thing existed. It doesn't. Anyone telling you that they can CURE diabetes is trying to sell you snake oil. But it's not unreasonable to find things that might help a bit. Dr. Bernstein, who has lived far, far longer and in better overall health than anyone ever once thought possible, comes as close to helping a LOT as is possible to hope for.

Don't let the fact that Dr. Bernstein is a Type I diabetic deter you from listening to all he knows about helping patients who are Type II diabetics. There are some other prescription drugs that Dr. Bernstein discusses, and I'm in no position to disagree with any of it, except for metformin (that he does prescribe for some of his patients). My personal experience with metformin was too strongly negative to ever want to see anyone on that drug, even though Dr. Bernstein does approve of it for some patients.

>Our last doctor prescribed the following therapy of medications for her:

>1. Captopril (ACEI)
>2. Perindorpil (ACEI)
>3. Ramipril (ACEI)

>Now, I see there are three ACEIs, which does not make sense to me. in this case, is it possible to minimize the intake to just one of those drugs? If yes, which one would be the most optimal for her?

The piling on here of ACE-1 drugs rubs me wrong too. I'd guess that even though the formulations are not absolutely identical, that the same kinds of side effects might ensue from the similarities of all the ACE-I types, and that the potential effects of the three together might be somewhat similar to a large overdose of a single one of them.

I haven't researched these particular drugs, so this is just a guess. But it's based on what happened to me with an overdose of a single ACE-I. I'd had some bad effects from various different blood pressure drugs and was down to trying to get by on a single drug: ACE-I enalapril. My doctor kept raising and raising and raising the level of that drug because clearly the single blood pressure drug wasn't doing the job. I ended up on double the amount of the highest dose generally found to be effective. Since I was also hugely overweight at the time, it also made sense to me that maybe effectiveness was affected by body weight, so I thought the doctor's plan for me to try taking more and see whether it might help was an excellent idea.

It wasn't. In looking back, I should have worried more about taking anything whatsoever every single day in large amounts and then in depending on it for decent heart function. After all, I'd been tested allergic to 66 foods, and every inhalant the allergist tried. I don't know exactly what was going on in my reaction to the overdose of enalapril, but the more I took, the more I needed; my blood pressure got worse and worse and worse as the dosage went up and up and up.

Your grandmother's doctor's reasoning might be similar to that of my doctor's (and my) reasoning in making the wrong decision to go for an overdose of enalapril. Maybe she/he is reluctant to exceed the recommended dosage on a single drug, so she/he just piles on what is effectively the same stuff produced by a different drug company. But unfortunately, in the world of drugs, more is often not better and in cases like mine, more can be life-threatening.

It got to the point where I'd quit taking my blood pressure at home when it got up to 270 systolic because of the choking feeling I'd get to go along with the cuff cutting off that heavy pounding on the blood vessels. I know it was often going well above 270 systolic - I just don't know how far it went at the worst. At any rate, I was a walking stroke waiting to happen. (At a point later, I did in fact have an embolism in my retina.)

Finally, I decided on my own to take myself off the enalapril entirely, cold turkey, to see how bad the blood pressure was going to get. Otherwise I felt I'd better show up in the emergency room soon, and I was afraid they'd not be willing to try taking me off of the enalapril there; the medical profession in general is much less suspicious of drug effects than I personally am.

Gradually, over several days, the extraordinarily high blood pressure subsided. Not all the way down to normal, but it went down by 100 points or more systolically and a hefty amount diastolically too. Poor kidney function might have also been involved with my body's slowness in getting rid of the overdose of enalapril. I was hugely overweight, so to expect the BP to go all the way down to normal would not have been realistic.

After that horrible experience, I managed to control my blood pressure using an over-the-counter supplement: Ivy's Mukta Vati for over a year... until I started to react/show a tolerance to that over-the-counter supplement too. I mostly have gone back to enalapril now, but in only tiny, tiny amounts. Fingers crossed now... and we'll see how long the ability to use enalapril again lasts.

If your grandmother isn't a reactive type of person, then she might have lots of freedom to try things. Tell her to consider trying Ivy's Mukta Vati. Possibly just reduce some of the other stuff (in either total amounts or numbers of different ACE-I drugs) and replace some or all of them with the Ivy's Mukta Vati supplements, up to six per day. (I got the Mukta Vati idea from the website of Andrew Weil, MD, and tried both formulations I found available; the Ivy's formulation worked much better for me.)

>4. Torasemide (loop diuretic)
>5. Furosemide (loop diuretic)

>Likewise, I see little point in prescribing two diurectics of the same kind. Thus, I have the same quetsion here, if it is possible to reduce them to one and which one? I did read that torasemide has also potential to prevent or improve cardiac fibrosis, which, in my opinion, serves as a good additive effect.

I have prescriptions for both; they were written at different times with differing degrees of problems. The more common prescription is fuerosemide. That must be effective enough for most people? I'm on torsemide now, prescribed by my kidney specialist for a really, really bad case of brawny edema, because torsemide will get rid of more fluid very, very fast.

Both diuretics can give bad side effects if you're not careful in what you take along with it: you can have all sorts of horrible effects of dehydration. Generally after you've been on a particular dosage of torsemide for two weeks, the prescriber likes to take a look at your serum metabolic numbers, particularly as it's possible to have harmful effects on the kidneys if you don't get the dosage right.

I discussed the two diuretics with my cardiologist a couple of weeks ago. He wants me to stay on torsemide.

I'd suggest that your grandmother stop taking fuerosemide if she's going to be taking torsemide now. My cardiologist didn't consider having me take both of them at the same time, and I think I know why: the two drugs are not considered to be compatible with one another; one patient is known to have died from taking them both at the same time. (I believe that where I read that was at .)

>Lastly, since diuretics are known for release of a lot of potassium into urine, should we perhaps get some potassium supplements to regulate its presence in her organism?

Both of these diuretics are _full_ loop diuretics... meaning they pull lots of minerals and vitamins from the body, not just potassium, so you're more likely still reasonalbly balanced when you take these drugs - you just might need more of lots of stuff. The problem can come from dehydration and loss of minerals (but a reasonably balanced loss). HCTZ is a partial-loop diuretic, meaning you have to pay special attention to the potassium loss on that one.

Generally if you're eating when the diuretic is affecting you, it's not so bad. If you're trying to lose weight, though, and you're not constantly eating, then take something like a liquid mineral supplement to counter the effects of the diuretic. Take vitamins to counter the effects on a potential vitamin loss too.

>To add, the same doctor also recommended to get calcium blockers, but, to me, it makes no sense, since these are usually contraindicated in people with CHF.

My kidney specialist's nurse called a calcium channel blocker in for me when I reported some blood pressure increases in a phone call. I clearly didn't need it according to the BP measurement when discussing this possibility with the cardio specialist, though, and he didn't advise me to take that prescription. He didn't say why precisely, other than it looked as if the BP was doing fine right now with the extra help from the torsemide.

Doctors go slightly crazy when they see that your BP is far too high for far too long. It's understandable. But there's the Mukta Vati idea that I'd suggest your grandmother turn to, along with lowering the dosages on the ACE-I inhibitors if her doctor thinks she can safely do so. And consider eliminating two of the three ACE-I inhibitors.

Most people aren't really helped by eliminating salt if they're not going crazy with adding extra salt in the first place. But those of us with kidney problems with our diabetes (whether diagnosed yet or not) do tend to need to lower sodium chloride, big time. I'd recommend that your grandmother try going without salting anything at all at table and when cooking - and then eat only unsalted foods totally for awhile just to see whether that has an effect on the high BP problem. She needs to know whether she's one of us who really, really needs to lower salt intake.

(You can get used to what a hugely reduced salt intake tastes like, and eventually "normal" amounts of salt will taste too salty to you; don't assume she can't adjust to this advice.)

IF lowering salt really does help a lot, then pay LOTS of attention to keeping up with kidney function there.

You do have to pay attention to what you eat a bit more along with taking diuretics. She might find that the same amount of diuretic is too much with a reduced salt intake. If sodium seems too far out of whack (low) in her panels, she can safely take in tiny amounts of sodium bicarbonate; it's only the sodium in the form of sodium chloride that causes the rise in blood pressure readings.

>If you have any other suggestions or what I should look into, please put it down here in this thread. I deeply appreciate all the help and advice!

Please ask your grandmother to start taking TAURINE twice every day.

If I could just say one single thing to help her (and any other diabetic patients in shoes like hers) it would be this: take a 1000-mg tablet of Taurine every morning or at lunch and another one at supper or at bedtime every night. You can safely up the dosage, but don't take less than 1500 mg. per day if you hope to see a difference in how your body handles excess fluid. Taurine does work to help with the demanding complex of interactions between the cells and their surrounding fluid, quite a lot.

For cases of mild edema or heart failure that's not very bad, just taking taurine might be all that's really needed. In my early days of needing to get rid of excess fluid, once I dropped the prescription drugs that were causing kidney damage, I could get by just by taking taurine without a diuretic.

To find out more about using taurine, please read "Dr. Atkins' Vita-Nutrient Solutions: Nature's Answer to Drugs" by Robert C. Atkins, MD. It has been awhile since that book came out, but the supplements information discussed in the book is still as good as gold. He thinks all heart patients ought to be on Taurine, and I tend to agree with him from my own experience.

I take a small amount of magnesium citrate daily. Most people don't get enough in their diets for optimal heart function, and a little more magnesium taking at the right moments also helps me some during times my heart speeds up too much and when palpitations are very noticeable. A kidney patient does have to be very careful not to overdo taking magnesium, though the effects of a full loop diuretic help to make a prolonged overdose effect much less likely.


Raimon91, you are very, very nice to be looking out for your grandmother's health in this way. Best of luck to the both of you.

 

 

Read my messges on this board   Read my messges anywhere

 

Advertisement
Feel Vibrant Again!
My skin glows with youth!