Die-off or something else??? 
#176302
11 y
3,369
† Cross †
I'm in my 4th week of die-off symptoms after a parasite cleanse I did for one week with Dr. Clark freeze dried herbs (nausea, loss of appetite, anxiety, depression). I keep reading online that it shouldn't last more than a week. I have the symptoms worse in the morning and by night time they are almost gone and I feel ok. I've been doing water enemas and expelling roundworms (even today). I also have candida issues but I was only on a parasite cleanse when this all kicked-off - though some candida may have died in the process. I think my liver is overloaded with dead parasite toxins or something. I am going to see a gastro doc in a week but I'm scared to be prescribed Antibiotics . I'm taking ornithine, tons of vitamin c, enzymes, b5, multi to try to help. I've started milk thistle tincture too.
Is there any way out of this? Is this still die-off or some kind of liver failure?? The symptoms of liver toxicity match mine at the moment. How long before all worms are out?
More
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,013
MoreThis is a reply to # 2,111,550Hi 176,
As "grist for your mill," I would just ask how much vitamin C you are ingesting? The reason I ask, is if you are not approaching your Bowerl Tolerance "limit," according to Dr. Cathcart, you will see little in any [symptom] improvement.
Additionally, in what form is the ascorbate, e.g. mineral or hydrogen?
Just trying to assist, 176.
Best of success to you,
David- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,931
MoreThis is a reply to # 2,112,208I am taking magnesium ascorbate low-acidity, around 10 grams a day. I did read something interesting yesterday on the net. Die-off that continues for too long after a cleanse may mean a secondary dormant parasitic infection or bacterial infection which may have come about due to the cleanse itself. I may therefore need to take more anti-parasitic herbs or go to a doctor for a bacterial infection and he will probably give me anti-biotics (which I would rather avoid) or maybe as you say I could take extremely high doses of vitamin c to try to kill it off. I am already taking a pretty high dose. The problem is it contains 125 mg magnesium for every 1600mg vit. C powder so my mag. Will also go up. I don't have any other form at home right now.
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,037
This is a reply to # 2,112,233Hi Break,
Just "as grist for your [health] mill:"
Are you aware of the fact that the mineral ascorbates have only one-half of the antioxidizing potency [moloecule-for-molecule, e.g. gram-for-gram] of hydrogen ascorbate, i.e. ascorbic acid, e.g. 5 grams of ascorbic acid equals ten grams of magnesium ascorbate [in terms of the "free/extra" electrons available].
Additionally, you have no "extra" metallic element to eliminate from the body, e.g. [in your/this case] magnesium, so you can ingest the hydrogen ascorbate in very large doses, over a very long time, e.g. a lifetime, with no over-dose worries.
If you have not read the article [by Dr. Cathcart] that is linked here, http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
I encourage you to do so [for your health sake (at least the first ten paragraphs)].
I wish you the best of success, Break!
Sincerely,
David- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,877
This is a reply to # 2,112,354Thanks David, will read it. I recently read that sodium ascorbate was the best form of vitamin c, so now I'm confused?! I haven't ordered it as yet so I'll look into hydrogen ascorbate. I have a very sensitive stomach so when I took ascorbic acid I had a burning sensation in my tummy and then switched to low-acidity magnesium ascorbate. Maybe I can try this one, I do think vitamin c has helped me a lot, I get over colds in 48 hours with it!
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,899
This is a reply to # 2,112,611I read the article, he makes a lot of references to sodium ascorbate. Can you tell me which brand and form of vitamin c you are using?
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,149
This is a reply to # 2,112,619Hi Break,
You'll note, that in EVERY case [where he mentions sodium ascorbate] he is talking about using it intravenously. The reason is that, you cannot inject the acidic hydrogen ascorbate directly into the bloodstream, i.e. without grave [even potentially fatal] health consequences. Whereas sodium ascorbate is slightly alkaline [like the blood].
Although I started out 19 years ago using ascorbic acid powder/crystals, I have for the past 17 years [or so] used only ascorbic acid tablets, for two reasons: 1) to prevent any potential damage to the tooth enamel; and 2) because I find it more convenient to ingest. The brand I use [because they are the least expensive that I know of] is Kirkland Signature [from Costco].
Just to repeat something I said in the previous post: Do not be afraid to ingest whatever amount of sodium bicarbonate you need to make your stomach feel comfortable. To this day [and I ingest upwards of three ounces a day] I still very occasionally get a bit of an acid stomach, and will simply just swallow some sodium bicarbonate [which immediately takes care of the over-acidity]. My strong encouragement to you, Break, if you want the very best of health, is to reach your Bowel Tolerance limit each day [if not several times a day]. I believe over time you will experience what I have experienced, e.g. more and more ease with the ingestion [process], along with better and better health [benefits]. But you must persevere. This is essentially a life-long endeavor, if we are to insist on eating our typical [cooked] Western diet.
Let me know if you have any other questions and/or concerns, Break.
Best of health to you!
Sincerely,
David
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,149
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,126
This is a reply to # 2,112,611Hi Break,
As with any mineral ascorbate, e.g. magnesium, potassium, sodium, etc., you will get only one "free"/extra electron per molecule vs. two with the hydrogen ascorbate, i.e. ascorbic acid. That is why Dr. Cathcart always recommended the acid form when ingesting orally, and in fact, wrote that he generally did not get as good of results, i.e. the "ascorbate effect," with the mineral ascorbates orally as with ascorbic acid.
If you find the ascorbic acid [initially] too acidic for your stomach, by all means, ingest whatever amount of sodium bicarbonate/baking SODA [vs. powder] (thereby creating sodium ascorbate in your stomach), you [minimally] need to to feel comfortable. I definitely recommend sodium over any of the other mineral ascorbates, as [excess] sodium is much more easily removed from the body than the other [heavier] minerals [and in fact, that is why all intravenous solutions use sodium as their basic mineral].
If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to ask.
Best of success to you, Break!
Sincerely,
David- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,917
This is a reply to # 2,112,705Hi David,
I would like to reach my bowel tolerance limit daily but in the past I have found I can take no more than 4 grams on some days (healthy days) and when sick I can take more than 20 grams! What kind of ball park figure is considered average/good? I read in one book that we should take 6 grams a day and also recall Linus Pauling recommending 3 grams somewhere.
In order to prevent the acidity problem in which order should one take the baking soda and the ascorbic acid? Should I take the soda and then the pills or wait for burning and then take the soda? I've never actually taken baking soda like this before not sure how if will affect me?! I do know that baking powder is not the same as soda and that it usually contains aluminium.
By the way, I'm feeling better but I went to see the gastro doc anyway. He said I hadn't killed off the parasites properly and put me on anti- parasite drugs for 3 days. Since we pick up parasites all the time I'm hoping that the vitamin c will kill them off as I go along in the future. An acidic stomach is good for killing them off which is why we have to be careful with making it too alkaline with the soda. It's a tough balancing act.
I am think of doing a session of IV vitamin c therapy next week, not sure if you've tried it. I think I'm too young to feel as tired as I do all the time so I'm hoping it will make a difference. I'm trying different things, first parasite killing, then vit.c IV, then possibly Liver Flush and candida cleanse (my biggest obstacle). It did mention in the article you posted that vitamin c is not so great with solving the fungus problem but it will probably help with the die-off I'm guessing.
B- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,205
This is a reply to # 2,112,727Hi Break,
If you persevere in/with reaching Bowel Tolerance daily [regardless of how large or small an amount that is], I believe you will experience what I have experienced: Your Bowel Tolerance will very gradually increase [as your GI Tract becomes cleansed]. That process is definitely not a short run proposition.
Everyone is different, and at a different state/level of health, so there is no "ball park figure...considered average/good." You must find your own level [of dosage], Break, having to do with your own health goal(s), and what "price" you are willing to "pay" for it/(them).
Just ingest your [chosen] ascorbic acid dose [the more divided the dose (throughout the day) the better], and IF you experience more acidity than you are comfortable with, THEN simply ingest whatever MINIMAL amount of sodium bicarbonate you need to correct the problem. I do not believe you will experience any problem at all ingesting sodium bicarbonate. It is, after all, our body's primary acid buffer, i.e. our body produces its own sodium bicarbonate [in large quantities]. (It is good you know the difference between the soda and the powder. Occasionally I run into people that do not.)
Just do not ingest anymore bicarbonate than you FEEL the need to, and you should be fine.
By all means, I encourage you to at least try an intravenous sodium ascorbate session [if you can afford it, and know of someone who can administer it to you]. (I know of at least one doctor who administers a 60 to 80 gram IV dose every week to himself.) My only caution would be to make sure the administering person knows what they are doing! I have read of some people mixing up different potencies of the solution, i.e. not all were as potent as they should be. You might like to take a look at the info displayed here http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/sa.shtml
[particularly Dr. Cathcart's comments and video a few screens down]. And no, I have never had one.
If you are unfamiliar, Break, with the following quote, from Dr. John Tilden, M.D., I think you will find it of interest: "Normal persons are deadly to all germs and parasites peculiar to the human habitat." As you increase your overall health "quotient," Break, I do believe you will find your parasite problem resolving itself. And I DEFINITELY believe, as you speculated, that it will improve your well being during "the die-off!"
I wish you the best of success and health, Break, and by all means, "hit me up" with any other questions and/or concerns you may have.
Warm regards,
David- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
10 y
2,899
This is a reply to # 2,112,765Hi David,
An update for you. I couldn't take the ascorbic acid as I was diagnosed with pan-gastritis via an endoscopy. I guess the parasite herbs didn't agree with me and it led to this or maybe they released something that caused this. I am suffering with gastritis for a few months now, being careful with my diet. I bought some acid free vitamin c (calcium based) and I am cautiously taking 500mg with each meal. I am also trying enzymes and things hoping something will kick in cure this issue. I have also bought some sodium ascorbate powder but have not tried it as yet. I was told by a doctor that my sodium is a little high so I'm afraid this will make that issue worse. I did the vitamin c IV therapy but didn't feel much difference afterwards. I might go for another megadose.
Any suggestions on taking vitamin c without aggravating the gastritis?
thanks,
Break
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
10 y
2,899
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,205
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,917
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,899
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,877
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,037
- Re: Die-off or something else??? breakonthrough
11 y
2,931
- Re: Die-off or something else??? shotsee
11 y
3,013
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