Hi Mango,

You may not get past a few sentences in this long message before shutting down and feeling compelled to fire back, but I'll type it out anyway, and then I'll save the text to cut and paste into other messages with the hope that one person will be helped. I'm not selling anything. I'm returning to this website after a 10 year hiatus. I only posted a few messages back then as "fectoid", which can still be found through a search.

Being a scientist (non-medical), I believed the same as you at one time except I was sceptical about all such 'holistic' treatments. Now I am at another place in the spectrum that overlaps with your scepticism. I believe that you can mess around and waste a lot of money, and I mean A LOT OF MONEY, on all kinds of alternative herbs, supplements and treatments. However, when I can make a scientific connection between my issues and the recommended treatment, I'll move to the next level of belief, which is then to experiment. Even then, the experimental results have to be significant and measurable for me to be convinced, and I'm not likely to get drawn into anything that's going to require one or more months to see results.

Since the FDA has approved Epsom Salts for human consumption as a laxative, and since, olive oil and grapefruits are also approved for human consumption, how radical could this be? Besides, who's gonna make money off of this if it doesn't work? Epsom Salts and Grapefruits are pretty cheap and I don't think that the Olive tree farmers are behind this movement, so to speak.

So if we back away and take a 30,000 ft view of the "Liver Flush", what's the least possible benefit it can provide? I guess it might just cause my liver to produce a bunch of bile all at once to digest all of that oil.

So what might that be correcting? Cholestasis?

Based upon my personal experience now, if the root cause of one's health issues is "cholestasis" setting off a chain of negative health effects, or making the body vulnerable to attack, one will not likely improve no matter what is tried, unless the cholestatic condition is reversed.

Cholestasis, and what could be just a partial list of causes and symptoms considered to be serious, is defined by the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), a branch of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the U.S. National Library of Medicine (NLM) at the following link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001263/

I say partial list, because many less serious conditions that aren't immediately associated with serious illness or death, tend to fly under the radar, and probably don't get connected to this condition.

So if you're still with me, but didn't bother with the link which was last updated in May, I'll run through some of the highlights.

Definition:

"Cholestasis is any condition in which the flow of bile from the liver is slowed or blocked"

Two types:

Extrahepatic - "outside the liver"
Intrahepatic - "inside the liver"

Some causes of intrahepatic cholestasis:
"•Pregnancy". (Really? What?)
"•Bacterial abscess in the liver"

Click on abcess > "Abscesses occur when an area of tissue becomes infected and the body's immune system tries to fight it. White blood cells move through the walls of the blood vessels into the area of the infection and collect within the damaged tissue. During this process, pus forms. Pus is the buildup of fluid, living and dead white blood cells, dead tissue, and bacteria or other foreign substances."

Click on 'Amebic liver abscess' > "Amebic liver abscess is a collection of pus in the liver in response to an intestinal parasite."

"Risk factors for amebic liver abscess include:
•Alcoholism
•Cancer
•Immunosuppression
•Malnutrition
•Old age
•Pregnancy"

Click on 'Immunosuppression' >...

Never mind...it's and endless loop

Still with me? Back to some of the Cholestasis causes.

"Certain medications can also cause cholestasis, including:
• Antibiotics such as ampicillin and other penicillins"

What a surprise. Only until recently has the mainstream medical community recognized the general health complications that have resulted from the widespread use of Antibiotics , which are also used to keep our meat supply protected from infection.

And who uses these?

"•Birth control pills"

And what about the symptoms? Who has this problem?

"•Inability to digest certain foods"

And what does the NIH say about treatment?

"The underlying cause of cholestasis must be treated"

What does the NIH say about the prognosis?

"How well a person does depends on the disease causing the condition. Stones in the common bile duct usually can be removed, curing the cholestasis."

So, surgery to cure extrahepatic cholestasis, and no cure listed for intrahepatic cholestasis? What the heck is that? didn't they just say "The underlying cause of cholestasis must be treated". MUST be treated?

"How well a person does depends on the disease causing the condition." What? That's it?

What do they list as some of the complications of cholestasis?
"•Diarrhea
•Organ failure can occur if sepsis develops
•Poor absorption of fat and fat-soluble vitamins
•Severe itching
•Weak bones (osteomalacia) due to having cholestasis for a very long time"

So what happens if I have "Poor absorption of fat and fat-soluble vitamins"?

Here's the NIH web page on the topic of fat and fat soluble vitamins:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0003119/


What they say:

"Fat is essential for the proper functioning of the body. Fats provide essential fatty acids, which are not made by the body and must be obtained from food. The essential fatty acids are linoleic and linolenic acid. They are important for controlling inflammation, blood clotting, and brain development."

..."Fats are also an important energy source. When the body has used up the calories from carbohydrates, which occurs after the first 20 minutes of exercise, it begins to depend on the calories from fat.

Healthy skin and hair are maintained by fat. Fat helps the body absorb and move the vitamins A, D, E, and K through the bloodstream."

Cure all? I agree with you that there's no such thing, but I am evolving to believe that if you have poor, or little, or no bile flow, over time, the symptoms listed by the NIH are in themselves causes that lead to more issues that cause more symptoms, etc.

I still have to go through my own personal experience, but I'm going to stop here and pick up again at another time. I see that you just posted something about a guy named Andreas Moritz , who does sound like he's "over the top". He didn't come up with the Liver Flush concept but sounds like he might be trying to capitalize on its benefits.

I DO believe in the benefits of the flush and have more than enough proof for myself. You can search my posts from 10 years ago as 'fectoid', but I have more recent updates.

I usually do not look at any single thing as a cure but as another tool in the kit, each adding benefit. Yes, even the zapper, which is a wonderful tool, does not do it all.

I have talked with several thousand people who have done Liver Flushes and other cleanses as well. With over 90 percent reporting positive benefit, I know better. From every thing that I have seen, the only ones who are against the Liver Flush are folks who have not tried it, the doctors who lose money, and the drug companies that lose money when people succeed in improving their own health.

As a note on statistics: Someone who has bad results is more than 20 times as likely to post something in comparison to someone with good results. Even with that statistic, there are very few complaints from those who have done flushes and cleanses.