boron or borax for fluoride detoxing 
kasper90
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MoreWhich one should I use?
If I understand correctly, boron is the thing which detox you from fluoride.
And borax consist for 11% out of boron.
But I also read that borax is poisonous, so I would say that boron is the better option.
What do you guys use ?- Re: boron or borax for fluoride deto... Newport
13 y
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,837,941Boron will do everything Borax does as long as some is in Aspartate form. Else you need Boric Acid aka Borax to reach certain areas.
Borax itself is NOT toxic or no more than salt but you will need to take my word on that. The issue is that it is mined and unless purified to USP or Pharma grade can have any amount of pollutants.
This is the same with Epsom Salt, you don't want to intake mined Epsom Salt only USP or Pharma grade.
A PDF to refute Big Brothers claim to not replace Bromides with Boric Acid...although I just saw some new insulation made from 100% Cotton dowsed in Boric Acid in the market place to replace Big Chem/Pharma products.
http://www.jonesfiber.com/Boron%20Toxicity%20-The%20Facts.pdf
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- Re: boron or borax for fluoride deto... kasper90
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This is a reply to # 1,837,968"Boron will do everything Borax does as long as some is in Aspartate form. Else you need Boric Acid aka Borax to reach certain areas."
What do you mean in aspartate form ? And do you have some sources about this claim. All the studies I read about fluoride/boron stuff didn't talk about boron in aspartate form.
- More about Boron...REDUX Newport
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This is a reply to # 1,837,978
Tri-Boron, 3 mg, 100 Capsules
http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-Tri-Boron-3-mg-100-Capsules/2446?at=0More about Boron
by Newport contact Newport
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Edit DisallowedBoron is the fifth element in the periodic table of elements and has a number of important functions that have only recently been discovered and have yet to be fully appreciated. Boron is essential for plant growth, and it has recently been shown to be essential in at least one species of animal (zebra fish), with evidence mounting that it is probably essential for humans as well. The first edition of The Merck Manual (1899) credits boric acid, the most common form of boron, with being a useful treatment for amenorrhea, dysmenorrhea, epilepsy and elevated uric acid.
Prior to 1981, boron was thought to be all but irrelevant in daily human nutrition. Since then, there have been a number of animal and human studies (including one by the U.S. Department of Agriculture) determining boron as essential for the hormonal influence of estrogen and testosterone as well as bone metabolism. It is also purported to have anti-carcinogenic potential as well as preserving cognitive function. From a scientific perspective, boron appears to have earned its place on our list of vital nutrients in the orchestration of health. It has, however, yet to receive any official recognition as an essential mineral – yet.
Sources of Boron
Boron is found in non-citrus fruits such as plums, red grapes, apples, pears, and avocados, as well as in legumes and nuts. It is also present in significant amounts in coffee and red wine. Dried fruits contain a much higher amount of boron than fresh fruit. Although boron currently is not considered an essential element in the diet of humans, many scientists believe it merits the status as an essential "ultratrace" element.
BORON'S EFFECT ON CANCER
Much of the recent research on boron’s anti-carcinogenic potential has been particularly centered on prostate cancer. In a study presented at the annual Experimental Biology conference in Florida in 2001, boron was shown to have reduced the incidence of prostate cancer development by 64%. The study, from the Cancer Epidemiology Training Program at the UCLA School of Public Health, compared dietary patterns of 76 men with prostate cancer to that of 7,651 men without it. The greater the quantity of boron-rich foods these men consumed, the greater their reduction in risk of being diagnosed with prostate cancer.
Another study published in the 2002 Proceedings of the American Association of Cancer Research attempted to isolate the mechanism of action for boron’s effect on prostate cancer. While the exact explanation of the mechanism remained elusive, it was hypothesized that the prostate specific antigen (PSA) is actually an enzyme (a serine protease) that frees IGF-1 from insulin-like growth factor binding protein. This freed IGF-1 has been shown to promote the growth of prostate cancer. Boron’s effect is to inhibit the activity of the PSA enzyme, thus decreasing the amount of freed IGF-1 which in turn should decrease the growth of prostate cancer tumors.
The anti-cancer effect of boron compounds has been the subject of prior studies that involved tumor cell lines of human malignancies grown in culture. These studies are summarized as follows:
Cancer Cell Type(s) Effect on Tumor Cell Acute lymphocytic leukemia Chronic lymphocytic leukemia Growth inhibition after treatment with boron compounds Ehrlich ascites tumor Significant anti-tumor action that was further increased by combining with ultrasound therapy Ehrlich ascites tumor Significantly increased survival time L1210 murine leukemia cells DU-145 prostate cancer cells A549 lung carcinoma cells MCF-7 breast cancer cells Dose-dependently inhibited DNA synthesis LNCaP prostate cancer cells Reduced PSA by 86-89% and reduced tumor volume by 25-38%; mitoses and IGF-1 decreased in tissue studies Mouse and human leukemiasHuman uterine, colon, and lung adenocarcinomasHuman gliomas Inhibited growth Murine and human leukemia Uterine carcinoma tumor cell lines Potent in vivo antineoplastic activity and in vitro cytotoxicity
Anti-Cancer Activity of Boron. Studies of the anti-cancer efficacy of boron against a wide range of tumor cell lines (shown above) may warrant clinical trials in humans.
BORON'S EFFECT ON BONE METABOLISM
Calcium-Magnesium <=> Boron Interactions
Large numbers of human experiments show that boron is vitally involved in bone metabolism. It is well accepted that calcium and magnesium are important constituents of healthy bone, and in situations of adequate calcium supply but deficient magnesium resources, boron appears to substitute for magnesium during the process of bone formation. Under such conditions, the concentration of boron within bone tissue increases.
Boron's effect on bone appears to be mediated by its ability to reduce the urinary excretion of calcium and magnesium, and this ability is due to its actions in the kidney. As stated above, this calcium-preserving effect of boron becomes pronounced in circumstances in which dietary magnesium is low. Therefore, boron is in effect acting as a backup system for magnesium in order to preserve calcium in the blood and reduce urinary calcium loss.
The effect of boron intake was analyzed in a human study involving 12 post-menopausal women not on estrogen replacement therapy. Patients were first given a boron-deficient diet consisting of 0.25 mg of boron daily for 119 days. This was followed by a 48-day period in which the same patients received boron supplementation at a dose of 3 mg per day. Patients were also studied during periods of adequate magnesium intake versus magnesium deficiency. Deprivation of boron and/or magnesium caused changes that are similar to those seen in women with post-menopausal osteoporosis, including increased loss of urinary calcium. However, in women receiving 3 mg of boron per day, urinary losses of both calcium and magnesium were significantly diminished, especially if dietary magnesium was low. Also noted were increased levels of plasma ionized calcium, beta estradiol, and testosterone.
Boron also appears to enhance vitamin D, and although there is likely a relationship between this and it’s calcium-preserving effect, an accurate description for the mechanism of action of boron’s vitamin D enhancement is unclear.
ANTI-INFLAMMATORY IMPLICATIONS
Boron’s aforementioned theorized capability to inhibit carcinogenic enzymes led researchers to believe that it may also inhibit other harmful enzymatic activity as well. Boron has been shown to inhibit cyclooxygenase (COX) and lipoxygenase (LOX), two enzymes that mediate the inflammatory cascade and are pertinent to therapies directed against inflammatory conditions. Such anti-inflammatory capabilities of boron are clearly pertinent to its anti-cancer effect, because the reduction of COX II and LOX enzymes lead to a decrease in prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and other unfavorable eicosanoids such as leukotrienes. We now know that omega-6 fatty acid metabolism that is allowed to continue down this pathway represents a vital stimulus for angiogenesis and cancer growth. We also now know that there are many parallels between the medical applications of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) and the biological properties of boron.
ARTHRITIS
Prostaglandins and leukotrienes are mediators of inflammatory conditions such as degenerative joint disease and osteoarthritis. PGE2 and leukotrienes have been implicated in causing problems with joint swelling, restricted joint motion, and other arthritic complaints. There is evidence that boron may inhibit COX II and PGE2 by suppressing nuclear factor kappa beta (NfkappaB)—a proinflammatory cytokine. There is also evidence along these lines that boron can relieve arthritic conditions, which are essentially conditions of inflammation. These findings are clinically supported by evidence showing that areas of the world with low levels of boron in the soil have a higher percentage of people suffering from arthritis in comparison to regions with higher soil levels of boron. In fact, epidemiologic evidence shows that in areas of the world where boron intake is 1 mg or less per day, the estimated incidence of arthritis ranges from 20%-70%, whereas in areas of the world where boron intake is usually 3-10 mg, the estimated incidence of arthritis ranges from 0-10%. In a study of 20 patients with osteoarthritis, the 50% who received a daily supplement of 6 mg of boron all reported improvement (less pain on movement), compared to only 10% who reported likewise in the control group.
In another study, it was revealed that bones adjacent to joints with osteoarthritis tend to be less mineralized and have significantly lower concentrations of boron.
COGNITIVE FUNCTION
It is now commonly accepted that the routine use of NSAIDs significantly reduces the incidence of Alzheimer's disease. Given their aforementioned similarities, it stands to reason that boron may also have a positive effect on cognitive function.
Studies were conducted involving the analysis of brain wave patterns using an electroencephalogram (EEG) based on tests designed to measure cognition and motor skills in human subjects who were given diets that were either boron-rich (approximately 3.25 mg boron/2000 kcal/day) or boron-deficient (approximately 0.25 mg boron/2000 kcal/day). The EEG and showed an increased proportion of low-frequency activity in those subjects on the boron-deprived diet. The authors of these studies concluded that boron appears to play a significant role in human brain function and cognitive performance, and that it is an essential nutrient.
BORON TOXICITY
Doses up to 18 mg of boron daily appear to be safe for adults even if taken for prolonged periods of time. This is double the dose of even the most liberal amounts suggested by advocates of boron use. There is also no evidence to suggest that boron is either carcinogenic or mutagenic.
In 1904, human volunteers consuming greater than 500 mg of boric acid daily (this is equivalent to about 180 mg of elemental boron) showed symptoms of poor appetite and digestive problems. Symptoms of acute toxicity typically include nausea, diarrhea and abdominal cramps.
In Conclusion
Although Boron has yet to receive official entry into the ranks of the much maligned yet all-powerful RDA charts, there is strong evidence to suggest that it soon will. Along with a number of other minerals, boron may soon be recognized as essential since it has undergone publicly-funded studies recognized by government agencies, some of whom are under increasing pressure to expand the list of minerals officially listed in the RDA charts.
- Borax dosage kasper90
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This is a reply to # 1,837,982Advertisement
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Okay, I was not able to get boron before my holiday, but I got borax in my local drugstore.
I'm still a little bit confused, because everybody says I shouldn't ingest borax.
I read that you should use 1/4 tablespoon in 1 L water per day. (for men) Is this true ? What is the upper limit for borax ?
- boron toxicity Newport
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,838,207
Doses up to 18 mg of boron daily appear to be safe for adults even if taken for prolonged periods of time. This is double the dose of even the most liberal amounts suggested by advocates of boron use. There is also no evidence to suggest that boron is either carcinogenic or mutagenic.
In 1904, human volunteers consuming greater than 500 mg of boric acid daily (this is equivalent to about 180 mg of elemental boron) showed symptoms of poor appetite and digestive problems. Symptoms of acute toxicity typically include nausea, diarrhea and abdominal cramps.---------
Borax is nearly all Boric Acid, assuming you have USP or Pharma grade this says that 50 mg of Borax gives you 18 mg of elemental Boron the recommended high end dose.
- Re: boron toxicity kasper90
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This is a reply to # 1,838,261And how much mg is in one tablespoon ?
Because I can't measure such small quantities.. - Re: boron toxicity kasper90
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This is a reply to # 1,838,261Men suffering from skeletal fluorosis experienced 50 to 80% improvement after drinking solutions containing 300 to 1,100 mg of borax/L daily, 3 weeks a month for 3 months (Zhou et al. 1987). Boron enhances sequestration of fluoride from bone and excretion through kidneys and possibly the intestinal tract (Elair et al. 1980a, 1981)"
Isn't that an extreme dosage of boron ???- Re: boron toxicity just thinking
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This is a reply to # 1,838,321Advertisement
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I have a scale that weighs down to a gram, but no finer. I weighed 4 tablespoons of grocery-store borax, and got 38 grams. Going from that, a level tablespoon would weigh about 9500 mg, a level teaspoon would weigh about 3167 mg, a level one-quarter teaspoon would weigh about 792 mg, and a level one-eighth teaspoon would weigh about 396 mg. We can't recommend ingesting grocery-store borax, because sometimes people can respond negatively to the impurities present.
- Re: boron toxicity Newport
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,838,321I already said in my first post that Borax is as safe as salt but you need to take my word on that.
All the documents I posted are clear on LDL on pregnant rats, no human studies have been done...wonder why???
For me, Tri-Boron is a better choice, Borax has issues of pollution unless Pharma grade and by the time you get Pharma grade you may as well buy boron bound to the three amino acids which is what your body wants to do with Boric Acid anyhow.
In short if you want to look for toxicity claims for borax\boron you will find many not as many as for Iodine but close.
Somewhere there is a rant on the failure of adrenals to bind aminos to copper, not sure boric acid requires the same adrenal function but certainly something to think of when using Borax vs Boron already bound to amino acids...
The very same reason why we use Selenomethionine vs Selenium. Those methylating functions are nearly always broken or at least taxed.
- Re: boron toxicity Newport
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,838,334From Wikipedia, for what its worth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron
In biology, borates have low toxicity in mammals (similar to table salt ), but are more toxic to arthropods and are used as insecticides. Boric acid is mildly antimicrobial, and a natural boron-containing organic Antibiotic is known. Boron is essential to life. Small amounts of boron compounds play a strengthening role in the cell walls of all plants, making boron necessary in soils. Experiments indicate a role for boron as an ultratrace element in animals, but the nature of its role in animal physiology is unknownAdvertisement
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- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,838,342Here is an pdf with pretty much all you need to know about boron.
"Type of animal Type of effect Daily intake of boron
Rat No effect is seen. This is the NOAEL for the Rat. 9.6 mg/kg body weight per day
Rat The weight of fetuses is slightly reduced, and rib anamolies may be present. 13 mg/kg maternal body weight per day
Rat Changes in the testicles which lead to sterility 55 mg/kg body weight per day
Rabbit Malformations of the heart and the circulatory system 25 mg/kg maternal body weight per day
Mouse Fetal body weight can be affected 80 mg/kg maternal body weight per day"
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/boron/boron-greenfacts-level2.pdf
Consider you take 500 mg of borax daily; which is approx 55 mg. of boron.
For my weight (60 kilos)that would be 0.916 mg of boron per kilo. Far away from the NOAEL on 9.6 mg per kilo.
I have taken borax for 3,5 years, still alive and doing well!- Re: boron toxicity Newport
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This is a reply to # 1,839,362Like I said, it's the same story as iodine.
Top dosage for me was 90mg per day, side effects are numerous especially in dissolving cancers and Neorickettsia sennetsu tumors.
But thats like saying take 6-8g of SSKI per day as needed while the Medical Mafia says any amount will kill you...
- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
13 y
19,626
This is a reply to # 1,839,370Advertisement
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I took for a test 6 capsules filled borax (00) daily for 10 days. A 00 capsule is approx 800 mg each.
That would be a daily amount of 528 mg of boron. 8,8 mg per kilo body weight.
I developed a dry crusty nose and my skin dried up a little, that was about it. The symptoms was gone in a couple of days when I discontinued this dosage.
(the dry crusty nose one can find in the homeopathic proovings of borax)
However I found no benefits of taking that much; so the recommended 1/8 or 1/4 of a level teaspoon is good enough.
For those who cannot stand the taste of borax in water; fill the desired amount in a capsule, take 1 g of ascorbic acid with it, before bedtime.
This way it is easy on the stomach, not affecting the stomach acid and such.- Re: boron toxicity slowsmile
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This is a reply to # 1,839,417
I've been taking borax for about 5 years similar to Ginagirl. I started using it, together with high dose lugols iodine, amongst other things, to get rid of my systemic candida problem(successfully gone now). I took the borax as borax water -- 1/8-1/4 tspn borax(sodium tetraborate) dissolved in one litre of water. Then I would add my daily dose of high dose lugol's drops into the borax water and drink that liter throughout the day. Works well, spreads the dosages safely throughout the day and I would always take a rest from the borax/iodine water at the weekends..
As far as I'm concerned, borax is the ultimate fungal killer and iodine's not so bad in that area either. I also spray the outside of my body after showering with a garden sprayer containing a mixture of epsom salts and borax in water -- keeps all the fungal skin problems in check and also removes and improves body odour. I have alot of respect for borax -- it balances hormones, removes fluoride from the body and is particularly good for increasing bone density. Borax is a life saver for people with arthritis because it kills the mycoplasma cause, a sort fungal Ebola-type of bacteria that eats and destroys cartledge. Anyway, here is some older research on borax and arthritis:
http://www.rexnewnhamarthritiseducation.com/paper.asp
In Israel their drinking water has a higher borax content than normal. The incidence of occurrence of arthritis in America is about 22% of her population across the board. In Israel, only 0.35% of their population has arthritis. Borax in action.
I still take iodine and borax today, though not as intensely as when I had the candida.
- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,841,494"I still take Iodine and borax today, though not as intensely as when I had the candida."
-same here; I do a maintenance 1-2 times a week.- Re: boron toxicity slowsmile
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Other stuff I discovered in those early days was that everyone is deficient of minerals like Magnesium, Iodine, Borax and Vitamiin C etc. And there is way too much fortified Calcium in processed foods which acidifies your cells. It's interesting that when Dr Abraham -- from the Iodine Project -- did an experiment and tested 500 American people randomly with his iodine loading test he found that 97% of them were seriously iodine deficient. Additionally, because of bad processed foods, drugs, toxins etc that we constantly eat and drink, other antioxdants like Glutathione and SOD -- essential and protective body antioxidants -- are also sadly lacking in our bodies which is why I think our bodies age or "rot" so quickly. Part of the cause of this problem is the ridiculously low redommended RDA doses given for these nutient substances by agencies like the FDA.
I also had heart arrythmia and serious insomnia problems as well as bad leg cramps at night. Magnesium Chloride(Mag Oil) and Iodine -- in higher doses -- got rid of all those problems very quickly.
I always take minerals and vitamins now in my own larger amounts which has done me well. I've found it easiest to take mineral water of my own making -- consisting of borax, sodium bicarbonate(alkalizing), magnesium sulphate or chloride, lugol's iodine and fulvic acid drops(minerals baseline) in my drinking water. This, I think, gives me more or less the full spectrum of minerals that I need every day in an easier and more natural form to take than tablets and also seems to provide strong, protective antiobiotic action.
I also take 8 - 10 drops of 10% Sodium Thiosulfate in a glass of water a few times a week which continually detoxes and clears my system of heavy metals, chlorine, arsenic and cyanide. The iodine also helps to clear out lead, mercury, aluminium and cadmium as well. You can by 10% ST from any aquatics shop -- used for removing chlorine from fishtanks. They also use Sodium Thiosulfate -- in much larger amounts -- in medicine as an IV flush after you've had chemo for cancer to help clear out the heavy metals. I just use !0% ST as a gentle, constant detox, as a defence against any processed food I might eat. No side-effects at all. Eating raw cilantro in salads and drinking green tea will also help detox heavy metals from the body.
- Re: boron toxicity slowsmile
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- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
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- Re: boron toxicity slowsmile
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- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
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- Re: boron toxicity Newport
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- Re: boron toxicity Ginagirl
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- Re: boron toxicity Newport
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- Re: boron toxicity just thinking
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- Re: boron toxicity kasper90
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- boron toxicity Newport
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- Borax dosage kasper90
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- More about Boron...REDUX Newport
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- Re: boron or borax for fluoride deto... kasper90
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- Re: boron or borax for fluoride deto... Newport
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