If you are referring to the enzymes cellulase and hemicellulase then these can make things worse:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1555407#i
I have to disagree. I feel I am about 80% better at this point and I can't imagine having gotten here without Candex in particular. Candex was the only thing that slowed my bowels down enough to enable me to start having semi-solid bowel movements again. I can't recommend enzymes enough.
We will have to agree to disagree then because I disagree with the use of exogenous enzymes. Digestive enzymes in general will shut down the body's own production of these enzymes with continued use, which presents another problem.
As far as the use of cellulase and hemicellulase in particular all these do is break down cellulose and hemicellulose in to simple sugars. When breaking down the cellulase and hemicellulase in the Candida cell walls only some of the Candida cells will be destroyed by the enzymes. The resulting sugars will simply feed the surviving Candida. The other big problem again is that Candida is kept in control by the acids formed as the beneficial intestinal flora ferment fibers. These include the insoluble fibers that contain cellulose and hemicellulose. Cellulase and hemicellulase enzymes though digest these fibers again creating simple sugars that add calories by creating simple sugars that can be absorbed unlike the longer chain sugar molecules of the fibers. And as mentioned before these sugars can feed the surviving Candida as not all the sugar gets absorbed in the small intestine.
As for bowel movements, enzymes are not the regulator for bowel movements. Intestinal peristalsis is actually regulated primarily by serotonin, again produced by the intestinal flora that need those fibers to feed on so they can produce the serotonin. Fibers can also promote peristalsis by irritating the intestinal lining or by creating intestinal bulk increasing pressure on the intestinal walls. Cellulase and hemicellulase enzymes have no role in this. In fact the human body itself does not even produce these enzymes.
I agree. It's hard to argue with experience. The "cellulase makes it worse" theory isn't true in theory or practice. It ignores that fact that any glucose produced by the breakdown of glucans will be competed for in the small bowel by you, bacteria and remaining undamaged yeasts.
Even if you could create a perfect system with only yeast, enough carbohydrate to sustain that population, then add cellulase, it will be a slaughter. Those lucky enough to survive will succumb to the next dose, or the next.
Add bacteria and a porous substrate (the small bowel) and the theory becomes....untenable.
Any resulting glucose that happens to make it to the colon, will be competed for by other bacteria. So the application of cellulases to yeast will always result in a net decrease in the population of yeast.
Any ingested carbohydrates added into the system are a separate issue and don't reflect on the effectiveness of cellulases.
The real problem is stopping treatment with cellulases before biofilms have been completely eroded. If you leave surviving biofilms and cease treatment, that's user error, not the fault of cellulase.
The biggest limitation of cellulase, IMO, is that it must directly contact the yeast to kill it. That's why I like it in combination with an antifungal. It's ability to erode biofilms exposes normally protected yeasts to the antifungals, allowing them to penetrate, thus providing a potent one-two punch.
Cellulase is also an effective treatment for thrush, but it needs to be swished around in the mouth to penetrate the spaces between tastebuds.
Though the potential causes of relapse are many, the ingestion of cellulase isn't one of them.
I used cellulase in the form of Candex and found it to be effective. I added the antifungal Lufenuron and found the combination very effective.
It's been a year now, and I've had no hint of relapse.
If you're interested in plant enzymes to assist with digestion or using cellulases to fight yeast, I encourage you to give it a try and make your own judgements.
T.
This is a over simplification of things that overlooks a couple of important facts.
One is that Candida is a normal part of the body. You will never kill off all the Candida in the body. This ties in to the second point. When Candida overgrows (candidiasis) there is a reason for this, which is a change in the terrain to the alkaline side. As I have shown in studies previously the alkaline environment not only turns on the Candida growth gene, but also allows the Candida to morph in to its dangerous fungal form. In my opinion using enzymes to fight candidiasis is like using antibiotics to treat an infection from stepping on a nail without removing the nail. Neither gets to the base cause. Since the enzymes do not restore the proper pH then leaving the alkaline terrain will simply lead to rebound growth anyway as the Candida growth gene is turned on by the high pH.
As far as the claim about bacteria competing for those sugars, if that were the case then why can't you eat a big cake without issues? For that matter I hear people on this forum stating that even small amounts of sugar give them problems. Given that most of that ingested sugar will be absorbed long before it reaches the colon then there would be very little sugar to go around. Yet somehow the Candida somehow still seems to flourish when these people consume even small amounts of sugar despite the competition with the bacteria. So how do you explain this?
Then on top of the sugar being ingested by diet the use of cellulase and hemicellulase will only further add to the amount of sugar available while digesting the fibers needed by the flora to produce the acids needed to turn the Candida growth gene off and to keep the Candida in its benign yeast form.
Yeah, you should be aware that much of your normal flora are able to ferment a wide variety of carbohydrates, including simple ones like glucose. Just take a common colonic microbe such as enterococcus faecalis, go to microbe wiki, see what it can eat, and you'll start to see that there is a lot of competition for saccharides.
Yes, I am aware that the flora can ferment simple sugars. Why do you think the flora are breaking down the long chain sugar molecules (fibers)? They are breaking these fibers down in to smaller sugar units that they can utilize. They cannot utilize the fibers as is for a food source. Same as we cannot utilize proteins or longer chain carbohydrates as is. They must also be broken down so we can utilize them.
As I pointed out in my other post though why is it that people with Candidiasis cannot eat something like cake when there is so much competition for the sugar by our flora?
Hvergathi: Cellulase and hemicellulase are meant to be taken on EMPTY STOMACH in order to avoid the problem you describe. It is important to SAY that if you are going to warn people about those enzymes: they may be useful against candida. Let's not take away a tool people have by not telling them the whole story.
Ok, if we are going to discuss the whole story then we also have to mention that there is delay in gastric emptying, which means there is a high probability that the person will eat at some point before the enzymes leave the stomach.
Then there is also the issue that cellulases have been found to inactivated by pH levels of 5 and higher and they are also broken down by acid proteases. So this brings up the point of whether or not any of the cellulase even survives to reach the colon in the first place? This is a good example of what works in a test tube does not always work the same in the body.
Regardless, as I pointed out earlier killing the Candida does not work. If people want to cure their candidiasis they need to restore the flora that generate the acids that keep the Candida in its yeast form and turn off the Candida growth gene.