An expert sells, a teacher gives.
An experts reward is silver and gold. A teachers reward is teaching itself.
One can teach and have a fair exchange of money. In a school room someone has to pay for the textbooks, chalk, construction paper, pencils, crayons, paper, rulers, calculators, computers, data-banks of knowledge and the TIME it take takes to compile, organize and present it all.
We "sell" herbs as part of our teaching. There are many months that we "do without" fresh greens & produce (opting for rice & beans or other low-end staples) in order to make sure those without enough money have what they need. Our reward is NOT gold or silver (it's being a part of someone elses learning & healing), and the fact that we make high quality herbal products available for 30-75% of retail IS "giving".
Not all sellers or "experts" are like us, this is true. But just because there's an exchange of money involved along the line doesn't make someone incapable of being a strong & selfless teacher (in the truest sense of the word).
Unyquity
Very well said. It has been my very great privilege both within and without CZ to have met and learned from some very good teachers.
We should never stop being students. When you stop learning you essentially stop living and just repeat what you have already lived over and over.
In regards to healing and learning, Hippocrates said, "“The life so short, the craft so long to learn.”
In too many instances, we are seeing a demand for scientific validation when such a demand has never been a part of this site.
You mean like the time when you kept demanding scientific evidence from me regarding cancer viruses? Again, do as you say, not as you do.
If people are looking for scientific validation, there are sites such as Sciencebasedmedicine or (shudder) quackwatch, which will assure them that the only real medicine comes in those RX bottles filled with unnatural compounds and the only treatments which work are the ones approved by the AMA. Gerson, Hoxsey, Christopher, Schulze, etc. - quacks one and all. Colloidal silver and virtually all natural herbs, vitamins and minerals are either maginally effective if at all or else dangerous. Cleansing and detoxing gimmicks. Accupuncture unproven. Meridians pure quackery. And on and on . . .
Quackwatch is nothing more than an opinion site run by a quack. Never saw Sciencebasedmedicine.com. But research has verified the use of so many alternative therapies from herbs to acupuncture. Try checking Medline or medical journals for starters. The only reason a person would use excuses against verifying studies is that their own beliefs lack any science to back them.
Here are some examples of positive studies from medical journals on supplements and herbs to back my point:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1458521#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1457185#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1452766#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1445319#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1458749#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1528361#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1453503#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1528359#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1524434#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1568721#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1528346#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1628955#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1528351#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1535880#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1582179#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1476583#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1467361#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1651914#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1626023#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1759566#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1499319#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1486795#i
So as we can see research studies are not evil anti-alternative monsters as some want to make it out to be. Research has validated the use of many herbs and therapies as well as shown safety in these. And we need studies to give credence to alternatives so they will be more widely accepted and they cannot be called quackery since we will have the science to back these.
But again, there are those who want to make studies out to be evil monsters simply because the protocols they believe in lack any supportive scientific evidence of effectiveness. And this is the kind of crap that still has alternative medicines sitting in the background to allopathic medicine.
Forget hundreds of testimonials, forget hundreds if not thousands of years of use in traditional healing, forget the knowledge of herbalists and other alternative healers who have learned and plied their crafts for years, only those items which have been scientifically validated and proposed by a self-appointed expert are worth considering.
Forget the fact that it was once thought that arsenic, mercury and cocaine were great medicines. And that cutting holes in the top in the head allowed evil spirits to be released. Or the "snake oil" alcohols were once promoted as "cure alls". And there were thousands of testimonials from people saying they felt better, especially after drinking a few bottles of some of those tonics. Luckily we had science to test and validate the stuff that was safe and effective and to separate it from the dangerous and worthless garbage.
Especially in support forums, but also in debate and private forums, no one should be attacked or belittled.
Another good example of do as you say, not as you do.
I beg to differ. Actually, I never asked for proof that viruses cause cancer, but rather proof of your opinion that "the vast majority of cancers are caused by viruses". Regardless of how many studies you may produce regarding links between viruses and cancer, any search in any search engine for "cancer causes" clearly demonstrates that the idea that "the vast majority of cancers are caused by viruses" is at best a distinctly minority opinion.
BTW, where is the proof of your recent statement which maintained that I was banned from your forum for "constantly making attacks and starting debates in violation of TOS". As I pointed out in response to that false accusation, I only ever made two posts which originated in your forum, which anyone can see by going to your forum and searching for "Dquixote1217".
I beg to differ. Actually, I never asked for proof that viruses cause cancer, but rather proof of your opinion that "the vast majority of cancers are caused by viruses".
Here is my quote again, try reading it more carefully this time:
"You mean like the time when you kept demanding scientific evidence from me regarding cancer viruses?"
Where does my quote say anything about you demanding proof that viruses cause cancer. This is a big problem you have. You are so eager to attack that you do not pay attention to what was really said.
Regardless of how many studies you may produce regarding links between viruses and cancer, any search in any search engine for "cancer causes" clearly demonstrates that the idea that "the vast majority of cancers are caused by viruses" is at best a distinctly minority opinion.
And again, you are so eager to argue that you totally ignored all the evidence presented to you. You ASSUME that it is a minority opinion simply because you don't have a clue how to do proper research. This is why you were unable to find even one link to cancer viruses when I found so many within minutes. The fact is that cancer viruses are well known within the science and medical establishments. Not only are there numerous articles on them in the medical and science journals but there are even entire books written on the subject. But of course you would not know that since your research skills are lacking too much to find them.
And of course when you were asked to prove your claims there was deafening silence. This just proves how you love to play games where the rules only apply to everyone but you.
BTW, where is the proof of your recent statement which maintained that I was banned from your forum for "constantly making attacks and starting debates in violation of TOS". As I pointed out in response to that false accusation, I only ever made two posts which originated in your forum, which anyone can see by going to your forum and searching for "Dquixote1217".
Who said anything about the attacks occurring in my forum? Again I told you where to find the attacks and debates from that one thread where you even sent PMs to people to recruit them in helping you to attack me in clear violation of TOS on the Cancer Support forum. Funny how you always complain about my actions but when your actions are brought up you act like they never happened. But why do you assume that a complete troll would not try doing the same thing in my forum if allowed. Look at how many times you have twisted things here and you did complain that you could not respond in my forum. So how did you intend to respond if allowed? With more lies and your twisted version of events like your repeated history has shown over, and over, and over........?
I may have to put of your a**inine games outside of my forum, but I sure am not going to put up with them within my forum!!!
It is painfully obvious that you simply cannot stand to be wrong and cannot stand to have disagreement, no matter how you have to grasp at straws and twist words and actions, including your own, to try to win arguments that are often without basis. It isn't healthy for you to keep doing this and it certainly is not healthy for the rest of CZ. I won't speculate on what it is that compels you to act in such a manner, but I will say this:
You may ban as you wish in your private forum no matter how right or wrong it may be. However, if it were legitimate to ban someone in one forum because they disrupted and attacked in violation of TOS in other forums, then a very strong case could be made for banning you in virtually every forum at CureZone.
Well, I can assure you that the "mysterious 80749" is not me. THIS is my user ID number.
Threw in the towel? Hot water? If you think so, but I beg to disagree. Choosing to discontinue replying when it has become a senseless waste of time or choosing to stop feeding someone who appears to have a compulsion to drag threads on until they have gotten the final word is not at all the same as throwing in the towel. And I have never been in hot water at CZ.
How odd to see one person posting under a user ID number questioning someone else who has elected to do so.
As I pointed out in response to that false accusation, I only ever made two posts which originated in your forum, which anyone can see by going to your forum and searching for "Dquixote1217".
And in this one you tried the same false debate that you keep doing everywhere else I mention how common cancer viruses cause cancer:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1556598#i
Since you are in to erasing posts that are of a "minority opinion" as you put it have you erased all the posts on oleander soup yet since there is only a minority opinion that it works? After all there is more on cancer viruses in the medical journals than there is on oleander for cancer. And what it in the medical journals shows it does not work. Since you basically said you will not allow posts on subjects of minority opinion then you should have erased all the oleander posts as you erased my post. And if you have not then why are you targeting my posts with more evidence than the unproven and minority opinioned oleander posts? Just more of your games?
"Regardless of the number of hits you get on a search, the fact remains that most people inside and outside mainstream and alternative medicine do not believe that all or most cancer comes from a virus. Neither do most people by far believe that you can catch cancer from another person."
And I am supposed to believe that you are not going to keep playing your same games in my forum if allowed when it is clear that you cannot help yourself but to violate TOS every chance you get then blame everyone else for it?
And look, I am not the only person you have attacked in violation of TOS:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1402416#i
"The twisted guy is banned for life and his return provides a good illustration of why. "
And finally, since you demanded proof from me from the medical journals then let's see proof from the medical journals backing your claim:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1556698#i
"Regardless of what inflammation may do regarding increased oxygen, the process of cancer leads to decreased oxygen and that is why I said that cellular hypoxia was a part of the cancer process and not the cause of the cancer process. "
Sounds like another minority opinion to me. So you are allowed to post minority opinions but you erase any posts that YOU consider minority opinions that you disagree with? So is that simply your playing games or is this your power trip?
To me it looks more like ...
the one who disagrees with the prevailing opinion/protocol gets attacked
and
believers in a certain protocol join together to "take down" anyone who questions it, using name-calling and other TOS-breaking tactics.
You have it 100% correct. It is like a pack of wolves going after anyone questioning their protocols. I have been attacked so many times for questioning protocols here on CZ or posting evidence to the contrary. And if people pay close attention they will find that many of the people doing the attacks are friends with each other so they group together and attack in packs. Many of these people you will hardly ever hear a peep from then when they see others attacking they all of a sudden jump in because they feel there is "safety in numbers".
As a recent example there was Ryan going after me relentlessly. Then Justin, who all of a sudden returned to attack under a new name, joined in riding on Ryan's coat tails. Then came Moreless back from the grave, then Will_I_Ever_Learn and other Moreless supporters that we have not heard from in quite a while. One started in and the rest of the pack quickly followed.
Answer: Do NOT question another's protocols, it's that easy.
I have to disagree. There is a reason these are public forums. It allows people express different views. If someone wants to discuss a particular protocol without anyone pointing out things like safety issues then they should have a blog or a personal website where people cannot respond to their claims. Otherwise it is like someone else said that the people here are adults and can choose for themselves. But for people to make rational decisions then all evidence, for or against, need to be presented. People can then either choose to go with what they believe or they can research each of the claims to see which of them is really true.
Furthermore, presenting different views can also help people avoid being scammed, which I think is important. It is like the detox foot baths. How many people realize that if these devices are run without anyones feet in the bath that the same colors and scum will form that the promoters are claiming are toxins being pulled from the blood through the feet. If someone is aware that something like this is a scam and says nothing is just as guilty of the scamming. Same principle as someone being aware of a crime being committed and does nothing to stop it.
Taking this a step furhter, what if the person being scammed was a family member of yours or a close freind. You really think that nobody should speak up just because the scammers may get upset?