Or perhaps it is simply that America is suffering because it chose the wrong god to worship.

spud


lol!

Some people need to study a little real history once in a while, especially if they are going to comment on it! No where in the constitution does the phrase "separation of church and state "exist! Even the concept is a myth! The amendment simply states that the church shall impose no religion on its people! Liberals who learn revised history from a progressive view point are subject to this type of misinformation, It's the self deception of I want to believe it so it must be true malady of the liberal mind!

It seems, from my IMO reading, within this forum, that some use the term ‘separation of church and state’ as a written fact within our country’s laws, USA. There is NO SUCH DIRECT PHASE OF WORDS WRITTEN (‘separation of church and state‘)… in Article 6 (link below ***) or within Amendment 1 (link below ****). It, ’separation of church and state’, today is misused, out of the 1600s’(A.D. :) major scope of discussion -in large part- by those that find ~insufferable~ GOD: FATHER- SON (JESUS CHRIST)- and HOLY SPIRIT‘s NATURE as THE ONE HONORBLE JUDGE of mortal, immortal life. As well, the misinformation, term- ’separation of church and state’, are also directed against the Bible’s Written Council --is by deception, either by, a personal uneducated look (simply the “blind following the blind“- no direct research of facts) or by direct false propaganda (twisting of facts- deception) to be used for their personal causes (warfare of ideas against Christ and followers of Christ- in part) AS TO implying unlawful actions of the freedom of a follower of Christ to vote, for the Wisdom of Council of the Bible‘s Principles.. it is not unlawful. Or an elected leaders’ siding with Scripture‘s Wisdom for Council in governmental business. And it is clear, very easy to read, that the founding fathers, USA, had various serious beliefs in God, Christ, and The Bible and those values of God in the evenhandedness in writing our foundations in public civil and criminal laws.

(The other links below (* & **) , for you to search, are letters (sent and received) of President Thomas Jefferson with this current discussion of this term ‘separation of church and state‘, in part, and the full words, language tone of what was being fully discussed, for your analysis, within these two letters. It is clear that all parties, including Jefferson, had a faith based belief in Jesus Christ or in a faith based belief- personal relationship of ONE CREATOR. As, faith based beliefs are witnessed in their closing words, within these letters.)

Again, since this is around our elections, A Personal Vote, in the USA, has only a small amount, as many folks are implying, to do with ’separation of church and state’ issues of laws. (and NEVER FORGET we live under the ‘law of precedent’ …the law can change within the hands of a few judges…was NOT how it was ’framed’ in the beginning…the Supreme Court has to much power-IMO) However, freedom to vote, in an election, as to ideas of public laws or direction of proposals of policies to be brought forth, proposals to add as a possible new-signed laws (such as: civil laws, criminal laws, public procedures, financial, interactions with other countries, war, peace, aid, social government involvements, public works-highways- infrastructures, in part) is a personal decision of self-determination, under our voting systems for public elected offices. The Bible (Old Testament and NEW Testament) has governmental examples of civil laws, criminal laws (in part). And it is our FREEDOM..one by one, to vote for another, others that we see, as fair leaders of sensible judgment, a carrier of the peoples’ voting voice in what they impart, as an elected government representative, and their personal goals of a public office-public decisions. “I”, a person, that is of Christ, has HIS COUNCIL, as to, public polices. ///I do see/hear -the evil gr$$d- of the republicans AND democrats, that are working with ’the controlling ones’ (such as The Federal Reserve Banking System.. just to mention one of many\\\ But, this is a fact… too, evil is always working to manipulate The Decent Practices by criminal bribes, criminal educational propaganda-control, criminal religious propaganda (including the using of a false christ-bible’s false influence, ‘hear-here a verse there a verse‘) and criminal financial system of propaganda… and ALL of these PROPAGANDAS functioning together, planning decades ahead, and major planning within these four major systems that …ar$ dir$cted to those in charge, ’the law giver’. As well as, propaganda outlets directed to the public, public discussions, public media, public internet all working to bring unfair trickery controls, loss of freedoms over another, others. But, to those that already have Christ, Christ’s love of fair laws, you already know of this unnatural self nature , self justification of warfare against HIS WAYS.. As THE ONLY HONORABLE SEPREME JUDGE of mortal/immortal matters of court.

When looking/researching a Bible’s Council… the overall, complete ideas, those fully worked through deliberations have not ended… yet, within our maturity.


… your agreement or non-agreement -with me- as to a God or not a god, is always your personal earned freedoms, choice, your legal daily right, privilege. My ‘relaxation‘, in a person’s choices of God ( I 'plant', within my personal life, if it is within good manners because the subject came up, seeds/ideas within my capabilities and that’s all HE ’loves’ of me todo) -because- it is Christ’s Orders about your or another’s personal freewill-desire, within this war, and HIS current time boundaries of flesh/human/spirit, this earth age, lucidhunt
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*
This letter, link below, was written to President Jefferson. I gave the close so that you know they are followers of JESUS CHRIST
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/baptist.htm

And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his heavenly kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator. Signed in behalf of the association, Nehemiah Dodge Ephraim Robbins Stephen S. Nelson

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**
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html


To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802

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***
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression
<>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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****
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html


Religion in the original Constitution
Religion makes only one direct and obvious appearance in the original Constitution that seems to point to a desire for some degree of religious freedom. That appearance is in Article 6, at the end of the third clause:
[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
This statement is simple and straight-forward, and applies to all offices in the entire United States, both state and federal. The clause simply means that no public position can be required to be held by any one of any religious denomination. It would be unconstitutional for there to be a requirement that the President by Lutheran, or even for the mayor of a small town to be Christian. Likewise, it would be unconstitutional for a law to forbid a Jew or Muslim from holding any office in any governmental jurisdiction in the United States. (This having been said, it should be noted that several state constitutions do have a religious test — specifically, they deny office to anyone unwilling to acknowledge God or a Supreme Being.)
In the debates of the Constitutional Convention, religion did not get a lot of sound bites. It should be noted that without exception, the Framers were Christian or, at the very least, deists (generally, deists believe in a single god who set the universe on its course and then stepped back to watch; some deists believe their deity is the same God of Judeo-Christian tradition, some do not). There were no Jews or Muslims, no Hindus or atheists, and only two Roman Catholics. There were members of more than a half-dozen sects of the Protestant side of Christianity, though. Disagreements about style and method of worship between them were nearly as vast and incongruous as any seen today between, say, Jews and Muslims, such that the Framers wanted to ensure that no one sect could ever seize control of a government and start a theocracy.
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Read my messges on this board   Read my messges anywhere

 

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Great quote Tiki :)



spud