Why I think Liver Flushing is natura... 
edenfield
20 y
3,293
RN
I think before modernization, we probably only ate every so often. Not daily like we do now. Hunters would only be able to bring in food every once in a while etc. Meanwhile while fats and meats weren't available we'd eat very low fat foods.
This would cause the bile to build up, and when the hunters would bring home a large fatty meal, our bodies are tuned to the smell fat and we would eat that.
Just saying this because I have fasted for 2-3 days then eaten a very fatty meal and gotten stones out.- Yes, it all starts to make sense spleenpain
20 y
2,235
This is a reply to # 151,936The evolution of the gallbladder is to help digest large amounts of fat when the occasional hoofed animal is brought down. This makes perfect evolutionary sense - those who are fittest to absorb the large amount of calories that don't come around often survive.
Of course, everything has changed in the modern age. Our smart, but dumb, advances have led us to get further away from the balance of nature and to create a poisonous modern diet. The fact is, we did not evolve to eat so much carbohydrates and trans-fatty acids. The modern processed food is full of horrible chemicals, synthetic and indegestible fats (like olestra) and preservatives that gum of the system and cause cancer ( nitrates in lunch meat for example).
If you think about it, 10,000 years ago, just before wheat was domesticated and processed, what did people eat? Fruit, nuts, berries, green plants, roots, whole grains and seeds and the occasional meat, like small animals and birds. Example, the 5000 year old iceman (Otzi) had a wild grains in his stomach, something called Einkorn. It was probably more rare to take down a hoofed animal. The bottom line is we should be eating that diet, from 10,000 years ago, we are adapted to eat that food. No doubt that the level of physical activity is important too.
These are some of the reasons, that I have been trying to rediscovery herbs and plants that are beneficial to the human physiology.
Just some thoughts for my fellow flushers.
More
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,263
This is a reply to # 151,940http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml
Human beings ate quite a lot more meat than you probably presuppose, and little to no whole grains.- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense spleenpain
20 y
2,029
This is a reply to # 151,954The point is that the reason we are stricken with Gallstones is that our modern diet is non-optimal if not down right poisonous to us. And the logic that says that humans didn't eat meat every day is obvious and correct. Ever try to catch a deer? Omniverous - yes, but not as much meat as people eat today - no way.
My point is that a natural diet is less likely to produce stones in people.
I also think that carbs contribute to stones - and we eat way too much carbs too. 60 million Americans out of 250 million are OBESE and we have the highest rates of diabetes in the world. Stones are one of the leading causes of pancreatic damage that leads to diabetes.
So, I think that flushing is one of the few ways to clear the system , but it needs to be followed up with a diet that doesn't create more stones - high carbs and high trans-fatty acids and deep-fried slabs of cow is a bad idea. Don't you think?
More
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,296
This is a reply to # 151,956I agree completely. Too many people, however, have misconceptions about the pre-Neolithic (before the Agricultural Revolution) diet of man. Meat is frequently demonized - unfairly and unreasonably, I might add.
The US is not where it is because of meat consumption, although the quality of the "meat" we eat (can one really call a McDonald's burger patty "meat"?) - jacked up with soy byproducts, preservatives , fillers, hormone and Antibiotic traces, etc. - may contribute to the problems. However "the U.S. has relatively low consumption of animal fats (fifth lowest in men aged 55 to 64 years in 20 industrialized countries)" - if we used animal fat consumption as a measure of health, this would be dramatically inaccurate.
Primitive man consumed between 35 to 50% or more of his calories as animal flesh. The technology to process grain for human consumption did not yet exist, making it practically impossible to consume grains of *any* sort.
My strongest personal concerns within our society are for people who both a) don't eat meat b) don't eat healthily. Most of the vegetarians I know are some of the most unhealthy, chronically ill/tired, often very fat or at least pudgy, nonathletic people I could imagine. At the very least, they tend to be beyond unhealthy. People who cut meat out of their diet and don't *really know what they're doing* put themselves at severe risk for many nutritional deficiencies. These are the people that I'm sure many of us know, and these are the people who think they're making healthy choices, but are not. This definitely has turned into a rant...
...anyway, as I was saying, of course I agree. We can all agree on things that we almost universally should NOT eat - rancid/fried oils, trans-fats, refined carbohydrate (in general), foreign chemicals (e.g. some preservatives and artificial sweeteners) that have been repeatedly shown to have negative effects on the body - but the issue of what we SHOULD eat is slightly more difficult.
Sources linked to.
http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public_health/doctors_cause_death.htm
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1c.shtml
More
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense Leaf
20 y
2,664
This is a reply to # 152,005Hi, I'm a newbie to all this, but fascinated by the topic of liver flushes.
Re the argument over what man ate 10000 years ago, and should we/shouldn't we eat meat, I am convinced by the " Blood Type Diet " (see www.dadamo.com)which states that you are suited to different foods, depending on your blood group.
Generally, everybody is suited to vegetables and fruit, various nuts and seeds, and fish, all of which should form the major part of any diet.
There are minor differences between the blood groups, BUT the biggest differences come for meat, dairy and grains/pulses.
The theory is that the first people to evolve, in Africa, were all blood group O, the "hunters" whose bodies are adapted to eat meat, but not dairy or most grains/pulses. Then when agriculture developed, a new blood group emerged, group A, the "cultivators" who spread into Europe, and are suited to eating most grains and pulses (But NOT our ubiquitous refined wheat!!) but can't digest meat very well. Then came group B, the "nomads" who travelled into Asia, and not only thrived on meat from their herds, but could tolerate the dairy products. (but still not many grains/pulses or strangely - chicken). Finally, in the Middle Ages, a new mutation occurred, group AB the "enigma" who can muddle along with most things in moderation. But still not wheat. (I have to ask, is wheat good for ANYBODY???) I guess it's one of those things humans can eat as a survival food choice, but it's not actually "good" for anyone in the long term.
Anyway, back to the Blood Type Diet (which isn't actually racial, as all the blood groups got mixed up in most communities, over history), it explains why some people thrive on eating meat, and others don't. (Atkins diet, anybody?). It is sad for committed vegetarians who are blood group O and really don't stay healthy without meat, despite wanting to. (this dilemma is explained with an analogy to putting the right fuel into a car, and the fact that it's not their fault they have to eat meat, but in their genes). And you can understand that the implications of this diet go a long way to explaining the susceptibilities to various diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer.
Not sure where all this leaves me re liver flushes, but we are definitely clogging up our systems nowadays!
Hope this is of some interest.- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,157
This is a reply to # 152,386I find it very, very difficult to believe this. For one, I have heard of little to no legitimate studies done on this, even though the book that started the craze was on the NYT bestseller list. Nearly every source I consult shows significant evidence that this is based on questionable, incomplete, or (in some cases) a complete lack of evidence.
In addition, there's literally no remotely plausible way that any group of people should not eat significant amounts of meat. It's physically impossible to survive on grains (you die rather quickly of horrible deficiency syndromes) and attempting grains + beans isn't much better. It took our bodies a very long time to adapt to the diet they were at 10,000 years ago (up to 50 percent meat and over), and I don't think that these metabolic pathways could be so profoundly altered so easily. It would be a profound disadvantage for any human being to develop a significant intolerance/immune reaction to meat - such people would die young and be of poor health their whole lives, self-selecting themselves OUT of the gene pool.
The hormonal system (insulin mechanism in particular) of human .beings is also not suited to large amoutns of dietary carbohydrate.
Dairy is still highly allergenic to people that are tolerant of lactose and other potentially reactive (with your body) factors.
Grains and legumes are both literally types of starvation food. Grains always were treated this way prior to the advent of agriculture. Could you imagine what would drive someone to eat grass seeds?
In addition, he heavily recommends soy. Talk about evolutionary discordance! Trying to survive on soy would be (slow) suicide with the sheer number of antinutritonal factors.
My two cents. :o) I'm B+, BTW, Irish/Scottish/British ancestry on one side, Russian and possibly German and/or Polish on the other. My true metabolism is naturally very, very high (amount of food I eat, high resting HR, speed and efficacy of enzymes, etc.) and I can manage significant amounts of carbohydrate in my diet somewhat well, but they don't tend to make me feel great, so I somewhat avoid carbohydrate, but really specifically just grains. Cutting dairy out made it so that I could actually almost breathe freely again.
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,157
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense Leaf
20 y
2,664
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,296
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense spleenpain
20 y
2,029
- Re: Yes, it all starts to make sense AllyB
20 y
2,263
- Re: Why I think Liver Flushing is na... Spirit
20 y
2,190
This is a reply to # 151,936You are right.
You don't even have to go that far back in time, but you have chosen very good example.
In the far past, fasting was part of survival. Getting food was not always easy, and fasting was a way of preserving food and making it last longer, sometimes even for months ...
But, take a look at the last 2000 years, when we are more agrarian, and we don't depend 100% on hunting/gathering.
Most agrarian people were religious, at least the last 2000 years. And, all religions have long fasts, usually several times a year, and those fasts always end with a lot of fatty foods. A perfect example of liver flush.
By abandoning religion and customs, we have also forgotten that there could be more then one good reason why fasting is good.
Add to that higher level of physical activity of people living before industrial revolution, add to that clean food, add lack of vaccination, lack of dental work (root fillings, amalgam), add to that natural selection (weakest kids would die before age 15) and you understand why Gallstones were rare in the past.
Spirit- Re: Why I think Liver Flushing is na... edenfield
20 y
2,030
This is a reply to # 151,948Probably not even rare.
It's just that we had a natural rhymic mechanism to get rid of them.
Lions only eat maybe once a week, and I believe they go for the fattiest most nutrient dense organs and flesh.
- Re: Why I think Liver Flushing is na... edenfield
20 y
2,030
- Re: Why I think Liver Flushing is na... melart
20 y
2,129
This is a reply to # 151,936This has to be one of the most sensible and reasonable diagnosis of a stone problem that I have ever read or heard of.
- Yes, it all starts to make sense spleenpain
20 y
2,235
Share:
Translate This Page: