I'm 55 and use "natural" progesterone cream with DHEA, Progesta-Care from Life-flo. I noticed you told a young woman it was dangerous. Did you mean dangerous or young women or for all women?
Thank You!
I'm 55 and use "natural" progesterone cream with DHEA, Progesta-Care from Life-flo. I noticed you told a young woman it was dangerous. Did you mean dangerous or young women or for all women?
All women. There are some VERY RARE circumstances where I will recommend progesterone, such as extreme cases of endometriosis. Even at that I only recommend small doses, and for no longer than 28 days over a two month period.
By the way, I don't like DHEA either. I have seen women really screw up their hormones with this stuff. Also keep in mind that substituting hormones for the body's production will shut down the glands producing those hormones. As an example, Synthroid used to treat hypothyroidism. As the Synthroid shuts down the thyroid the Synthroid dosage has to be gradually increased. It is always best to allow your body to generate its own hormones. Your adrenals are your DHEA source, so focus on keeping them healthy. I posted all sorts of information on this subject on the adrenal support board.
Here is a write up I did previously on progesterone, including safety issues:
Saliva testing and progesterone creams are some of the biggest marketing gimmicks to come around in a long time.
Saliva testing is nowhere near accurate. Studies have shown that saliva levels of progesterone DO NOT correlate with applied levels of progesterone. The primary reason for this is that what people are not being told is that most of the applied progesterone does not go right in to the bloodstream. Instead, as with topically applied estrogens, the majority of these hormones are stored in the body's fat tissue. From there they are slowly released in to the bloodstream. This is why saliva testing does not correlate with actual progesterone levels.
I also have a major problem with the term bio-identical. There is no real way to determine that these hormones are 100% identical to the body’s own progesterone. These hormones are not natural, they are synthesized in a lab from plant sterols. When a substance like this is synthesized there is no way to make sure all the atoms are in the same position and all the bond angles are the same. Many sugars for example are all written as C6H12O6, yet they are totally different sugars because of the different positions of atoms and bond angles. Many vitamins, such as vitamin E, that are synthesized are said to be identical to their natural counterparts. Yet natural vitamins have a more pronounced effect on the body than their synthetic counterparts. So there is obviously differences.
Progesterone creams present a host of problems that the sales sites don’t want to mention. For example, the fact that I mentioned earlier about hormones storing in the fat tissues of the body. Because progesterone is cleared so slowly from the fat tissues the progesterone is cumulative with regular use. Women using progesterone creams long term actually accumulate extremely high levels of progesterone in their fat tissues leading to a condition known as progesterone dominance. In fact it has been estimated that many women that used progesterone creams on a regular basis can have up to a 6 year supply of progesterone stored in their fat tissue.
Progesterone dominance has many of the same side effects as estrogen dominance. These include weight gain, energy loss, insomnia, and depression, which can become sever enough to lead to suicidal thoughts. Other side effects include increased aggression, breast tenderness, loss of libido, acne, acid reflux, gallstones and fertility problems. Progesterone also promotes a number of cancers as it is known to activate human papilloma viruses. These viruses are best known for causing cervical cancer. What most people are unaware of is that they have also been linked to breast, prostate, nasopharyngeal and skin cancers.
Progesterone creams should only be used in very rare cases, such as extreme cases of endometriosis. And even with these rare cases these creams should only be used on a very short term basis. Using them long term or in high doses will only get a person from the frying pan in to the fire as they create a completely new and very dangerous hormone imbalance.
The most important thing someone can do if they have a hormone imbalance is to cleanse their liver. And I do not mean with the olive oil, lemon juice and magnesium flushes. All these do is allow people to create pseudo-gallstones from the chemical reaction of the olive oil and lemon juice. When I say liver cleanse I mean with digestive bitters. Bitters are bitter tasting herbs that stimulate the bitter receptors on the tongue. When this happens the vagus nerve is stimulated, which causes the liver to flush. For this reason it is important to drink plenty of water throughout the day when using them to prevent from getting sick. Large doses are not needed. You only need to be able to taste them, so a small amount on the tongue several times a week is sufficient. The reason that cleansing the liver is so important is that the liver is a primary regulator for the hormones. If hormone levels are too high this indicates that the liver is not doing its job of breaking them down properly.
A couple of other suggestions include maintaining the intestinal flora, eating more phytoestrogen rich foods, and avoid foods that tend to have actual estrogens like beef, chicken, and dairy. The intestinal flora are aided by fiber sources, which it feeds on. The flora help to further break down estrogen metabolites and aid in their elimination. Phytoestrogens are extremely weak estrogen-like compounds. They antagonize stronger estrogens by locking up estrogen receptors. This blocks the actions of stronger estrogens produced by the body, and those from the environment and foods. In fact that is what the DIM you are taking is doing.
Focusing on the adrenals is also important as they also produce estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone to help cushion the hormonal shift that occurs with menopause, either natural or surgical.
Vitex and wild yam are also good choices. Vitex helps the body to produce the progesterone the body needs rather than overloading it with progesterone like progesterone creams can do. Vitex is slow to take effect though. You have to be consistent with it for at least a couple of months to start seeing benefits. Wild yam has a very weak progesterone-like effect. It is also very supportive to the adrenal glands.
Wow. Very interesting. I had it backwards. I thought the phytoestrogens, as in soy, were bad.
I guess I'll stop the progesterone (and estrogen) for a while. I have years of estrogen stored in my belly;-)
I took DHEA for 10 years when I was younger for PMS and migraine HAs before my period and it stopped them immediately. It was my savior back before the triptans.
Everone's needs are individualized. Are you a doctor? Do you have a product line?
I apprecaite all your knowledge and your TIME very much. Do you have a bio in here?
Peace.
Wow. Very interesting. I had it backwards. I thought the phytoestrogens, as in soy, were bad.
This is a very persistent myth. Phytoestrogens are very beneficial. In fact many of the herbs we use to treat cancer are phytoestrogen rich. For instance red clover blossom, which has the same two phytoestrogens as soy plus two others. And many common foods are much higher in phytoestrogens than soy, such as yams and peas.
I guess I'll stop the progesterone (and estrogen) for a while. I have years of estrogen stored in my belly;-)
I took DHEA for 10 years when I was younger for PMS and migraine HAs before my period and it stopped them immediately. It was my savior back before the triptans.
There are various ways of dealing with migraines. Keeping a migraine log is a good start to make sure they are not triggered by sensitivities. Dietary amines are a common trigger. Hormonal migraines should also be addressed with things to support the hormonal system including bitters that cleanse the liver. Magnesium malate is also very effective for preventing migraines by preventing the initial vasoconstriction.
Everone's needs are individualized. Are you a doctor? Do you have a product line?
I apprecaite all your knowledge and your TIME very much. Do you have a bio in here?
Peace.
I do not post personal information on public forums. I already have a stalker that goes out of his way to find my postings and attack them without any contradictory information. He has even stated that he is watching this forum for this purpose on the debate boards. And I had another poster threatening me a while back for posting evidence contradicting his claims. I will answer your questions in a PM.
I understand.
Here's a quote from Dr. Mercola's newsetter today....
Consumption of soy can predispose you to developing kidney stones due to high levels of oxalate present in many varieties of soybeans. One more nail in the coffin for non-fermented soy!
Soy's still getting a bad rap even from NDs. Who has time to research all this???
That's why I appreciate you so much. I try to find someone I can trust and go with what they say. Most of the time they specialize in one, or a few things. It's nice that you're so knowledgable in so many areas. I need to get some sleep!
Peace.
I understand.
Here's a quote from Dr. Mercola's newsetter today....
Consumption of soy can predispose you to developing kidney stones due to high levels of oxalate present in many varieties of soybeans. One more nail in the coffin for non-fermented soy!
Soy's still getting a bad rap even from NDs. Who has time to research all this???
That's why I appreciate you so much. I try to find someone I can trust and go with what they say. Most of the time they specialize in one, or a few things. It's nice that you're so knowledgable in so many areas. I need to get some sleep!
Peace.
Soy is hardly high in oxalic acid. If you want high sources look at rhubarb, kale, spinach and purslane. Even beans are higher. Here is a link with a list of content by food:
http://growingtaste.com/oxalicacid.shtml
Plants high in oxalic acid, such as oxalis, purslane, and yellow dock have a lemony flavor. It is the oxalic acid that gives these plants that lemony flavor.
I will have to dig up my write up on soy myths and post it here.
Wow, I never knew this stuff about progesterone cream [other than your other posts!]. I have almost all the symptoms of progesterone dominance.....insomnia, aggression [actually anger, irritability], acne, depression [goes in cycles], weight gain [and can't lose it], energy loss & thought it was ESTROGEN dominance doing it. How would I know which it is? Also have excess facial hair since menopause, which I have to shave or join the circus! UGH!
This is one of the reasons I hate progesterone creams. Too often women mistake progesterone dominance for estrogen dominance and make the condition worse by using more of the progesterone. The anger/irritability, acne and facial hair are all indicators of high androgen levels. Progesterone and testosterone are androgen hormones. The other symptoms are most likely from hypothyroidism, which is common after menopause, although there are other possibilities. Fatigue can be from nutritional deficiencies, adrenal or thyroid dysfunction, anemia, low oxygen levels, congestive heart failure, liver problems......... Depression can be caused from low serotonin, low dopamine, low acetylcholine, low norepinephrine, high prolactin, low prostaglandins, low adrenal or thyroid function, medications..............
The estrodial level was 13 pg/ml and the normal range is stated as <46 pg/ml for post menopausal women. Perhaps blood work doesn't tell me anything anyway.
Nope, there are no accurate tests, including blood or saliva, for hormones. The hormones are in a constant state of fluctuation. They can even change drastically from minute to minute. For example getting angry raises testosterone levels very quick.
A thyroid panel showed rT3 at 22.3 ng/dl, which they said was HIGH. No clue what it means, if anything.
You are lucky that they even checked for rT3. I don't think most doctors have a clue what it is either. Even though rT3 levels are extremely important since high levels cause hypothyroidism even with normal T4 and T3. In short T3 is your most biologically active hormone. The hormone rT3 (reverse triiodothyronine) is similar in structure to T3, but rT3 is biologically inactive. When elevated rT3 locks up T3 receptors preventing T3 from latching on, thereby blocking T3's actions. In other words it causes hypothyroidism when high, even if the active thyroid hormones are within normal range.
TSH
Thyroid stimulating hormone. This is a pituitary hormone released in response to the hypothalamic hormone thyroid releasing hormone (TRH). TSH stimulates the production of thyroid hormones. It elevates in response to hypothyroidism in an attempt to stimulate the production of more thyroid hormones.
T4
Tetrathyroiodine, commonly known as thyroxin. The less active thyroid hormone for metabolism.
T3
Triiodothyronine, the most active thyroid hormone for metabolism. Produced from T4.
rT3/T3
Reverse triiodothyronine/triiodothyronine ratio.
FT3
Free T3.
FT4
Free T4.
were all normal, whatever THEY are! Or just normal at the time the blood was drawn.
Normal at the time they were drawn. These tests are VERY inaccurate, and they rarely pick up cases of hypothyroidism. Two very long explanations for the reasons, and I am not going to type it all out right now. Even the stress of getting stuck with a needle to get the required blood raises thyroid hormone levels temporarily, which can lead to false normals.
Does it have to be estrogen dominance or progesterone dominance or can it be something else entirely?
A few of your symptoms definitely indicate high androgen levels. The other symptoms could be from estrogen dominance causing hypothyroidism. Although those symptoms can have other causes, the fact that you have so many fitting hypothyroidism I would say that you are likely hypothyroid. Again the high rT3 can be the cause or a false normal on your T4, T3. This can also be secondary to poor adrenal function, which can contribute to the elevated rT3 and hypothyroidism. You can do basal body temperature to determine if you really have hypothyroidism. This low tech method is a lot more accurate than lab tests in detecting hypothyroidism. You can find instructions on the web. As for adrenal function do you have symptoms of low adrenal function? Fatigue, depression, orthostatic hypotension (dizziness upon sudden standing), chronic hypoglycemia (blood sugar drops when you don't eat as opposed to after eating), hormone imbalances, chronic inflammatory problems, fly off the handle easily, and water retention to name a few.
How does the excess fat on me affect this?
The more fat you generate the more estrogen you produce. Estrogen is produced by ovaries, the adrenals and fat cells. To much fat can also contribute to insulin resistance leading to higher insulin production, which leads to more fat production as well.
Or is it the hormonal imbalance what is causing the fat to stay put?
More than likely it is your thyroid and hormones. Again basal body temperature will tell you if the thyroid is low. So this would be a good start.
I don't care for it much. I have seen too many people use it as a misleading test t sell people on things they did not need. In the proper hands with someone that really knows what they are looking at and what the implications are it can be a useful tool though. I guess it is like a surgeon. There are those that know what they are doing and those that should be kept away from any sharp objects.
Thanks for all your help, H!
Marci
Focus on cleansing the liver first. The liver breaks down excess estrogens, and also processes the toxins that form in to fat. Bitters again are the best way of cleansing the liver. Don't forget to drink plenty of water throughout the day when using them.
Also increase fiber intake to help with the flora. The flora break down estrogen metabolites. This will also help with bile formation, which will help decrease the risk of estrogen promoted gallstones.
As the estrogen comes down this will help the thyroid since estrogen suppresses thyroid function.
Consuming more pytoestrogens will also help since they block estrogen receptors preventing stronger estrogens from having an effect on the body.
As for the adrenals, you should look in to suma. It is not only great for the adrenals, but also for balancing the hormones.
One final suggestion is chromium polynicotinate, not picolinate, 200mcg 3 times daily. This is not for hormones, but to keep insulin receptors open. Fat increases insulin resistance, which can also increase fat production.