i agree that these conversations are good. but when i ask for understanding, it is from god alone that i accept he answer, no one else. just as with any group of witnesses, there are as many stories to tell. so we all read the same scripture but it means different things to different people. just because an understanding has been accepted, codified and has a long history means nothing. and if the scriptures are any indication, the masses will never have it right. thats my first clue for error - widespread acceptance.