Date:   9/10/2015 7:20:34 PM ( 9 y ago)
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URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2275566

Thanks for that is useful information.
I'll see how it goes with lipo vitamin C. By all my accounts and reading, it seems time tested and potent for detoxing. I'll use some common sense when I try my first vit. C batch and dose.

Which product, method is best to use? Liposomal C seems like a very powerful for drawing out toxins and maybe you were experiencing detox symptoms? People in the vit C forums and other websites have reported detox symptoms. high blood Sugar levels, lack of sleep. This gets flushed out of the system if taken in high quantity.

Haven't made this yet so don't take my word, just an opinion on the matter. I would stay eliminate Genetically-Modified-Organisms foods, corn, soy. It seems unavoidable when taking supplements but there are some non gmo vitamin C sources. I would try sodium ascorbate. I found a sunflower lecithin that is organic, non GMO. That may be another underlying issue, being sensitive to these sources. And alcohol. so maybe try to lower the dosage?

Vit C has been gone under the radar for me, can't believe I've ignored liposomal vit C for so long. Only reason I've been reading, asking for help on this topic is because I've completely cut off citrus, all fruits and want to increase my vitamin C because I cook most of my foods. I need something more for detoxing and my skin, tissues which C can help. I've caved in and bought Livon's stuff so I can compare it to the batch I'll be making with sunflower lecithin, no alcohol and sodium ascorbate. My Livon package arrived a couple hours ago and it was HOT because of the heat wave. Not sure if I want to use it and return it. Finding non-gmo, C without corn/soy ingredients is a task in itself. But below I've narrowed some choices.

Understanding the reason behind why oral or IV lipo Vit C is used by some people in cancer treatment, treating severe cases of diseases, virus infections seems to be related to how vit C is one of the strongest antioxidants, correct? Vitamin C is useful for oxidative stress, detoxing, drawing toxins, collagen, forming tissue/skin, tendons, etc and some peer reviewed journal claim it increases intracellular glutathione and cysteine.

Sounds off topic but I think this vit C, antioxidants and increasing immune system is relatable to anyone with dysbiosis, leaky gut. Regarding supplementing with copper, iron I do not think that is an issue and it seems like it would be helpful to abstain from it as a few journals report that it worsens candida. I think I get enough of iron. Copper not so much and I am likely deficient in because I take a lot of zinc supplements.

Re Vit C;
As an antioxidant, glutathione and vit C seems to have more scientific backing than any antioxidants out there. I initially intended Vit C use for detoxing but it seems like it could be a staple for just boosting the immune system. Combine it with lipo glutathione, juicing, broths, healthy clean eating and other antioxidants supplements, I could actually look forward to something that is easy and cheap to make on my own. Compared to the $200 IV glutathione shot that my Dr wanted me to do. And it is not odd that I was deficient in both gluathione and cysteine and was more a complete wreck healthwise than I am now earlier this year. I was low in copper, iron which could mean dysbiosis and poor low immune function but according to the links you've provided, bloodwork does not take into account copper in tissue or free bioavailable copper. I think it is a combination of it all and zinc being an antagonist. Copper and iron may not even be great for candida or sibo sufferers.

Re glutathione;
Happy to see you have great results with glutathione because it is a heralded antioxidants. I personally have not searched out a liposomal supplement, instead opting to make it my own since it "seems" easy. Most of the supplements for glutathione, I don't want to buy and take anymore and haven't done so in months but I haven't noticed much. Liposomal might change that.. Anyways, I just want to heal the gut and promote a healthy microbiome like you all. That's Hopefully, soon I'll be making fermented foods, colosstrum, kefir, kombumcha and resistant starches to seal my gut and create a healthy microbiome.


Nausea, loose stools and high blood Sugar levels are associated with high vit C dosage. any symptoms you noticed differently?

About your link you posted and lower back pain and Tellurium; interesting stuff
Does the homeopathic stuff actually work?

I sometimes get lower back pain when I try to lay down to rest, or get up from sleep during the night or wake up in the morning. I used to get lower back pain during the day while sitting too long due to having bad posture. But I always related it to my kidneys as others have already alluded to. Sometimes i think about leaky gut, candida, bacteria which be another issue. My body just hurts when I eat gluten, grains. MSM, molydenum has helped a lot.

Someone mentioned in the link you've provided that C helps copper utilization. Copper toxicity an kidney issue? That link to copper's interesting. Because of what it says about copper imabalance and how it relates to the back. I walk as if I have kyphosis or like my 93 year old grandma because of my stiff neck and lower back. I have to rotate my shoes and walk more, practice breathing and posture.

Again, what's interesting from what I'm reading is that excess copper or bioavailable copper can cause problems with the connective tissue resulting in symptoms like arthritis, scoliosis, kyphosis (bad posture) and many of the conditions of the skin, hair and fingernails and toenails. sounds a lot like me. But vit C increases connective tissue formation and worse synergistically with copper.
"COPPER AND CONNECTIVE TISSUE

"Copper is required for collagen formation. Copper deficiency is association with atherosclerosis and other cardiovascular conditions. Excess copper or biounavailable copper often causes connective tissue problems, interfering with the disulfide bonds in connective tissue.
Copper and vitamin C. Copper and vitamin C are direct antagonists. This means that they oppose each other in the body. This is one reason many people feel better taking a lot of vitamin C. Copper tends to oxidize and destroy vitamin C in the body. Meanwhile, vitamin C chelates or removes copper from the body. This requires a dose of vitamin C of at least about 500 mg daily, far higher than the minimum daily requirement of about 60 mg. Many readers know that vitamin C is critical for connective tissues. One of the prominent symptoms of scurvy, or vitamin C deficiency, is bleeding, such as bleeding gums. This is due to connective tissue weakness.
Thus, a copper excess can easily lead to a deficiency of vitamin C in the body and with it many symptoms of vitamin C deficiency. Oddly, however, a copper deficiency also causes connective tissue problems, especially in the heart and cardiovascular system where it is associated with a tendency for aneurisms and atherosclerosis.
Symptoms. Symptoms associated with connective tissue and joints include arthritis, osteoporosis, stretch marks and joint problems of other kinds. Others include scoliosis, kyphosis (bad posture) and many of the conditions of the skin, hair and fingernails and toenails. Others are some diseases the muscles, ligaments and tendons.
Among the most common, for example, are hair loss, especially in women, tendonitis, back problems due to muscle weakness and others."
http://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/COPPER_TOXICITY_SYNDROME.htm#IMPSYMPTOMS
Zinc's an antagonist.
Do you believe that copper toxicity is an issue for your back pain

Do you feel Iodine is helping in reducing candida or dysbiosis? that is one of main reason

going back to vitamin C;

From my understanding the Livon/qualityliposomalc is more potent, contains alcohol, contains soy, uses a sorbic acid while the other recipes don't or use less C in their recipes.
This site lists lower back pain as less or rare cases of side effects? http://www.drugs.com/sfx/ascorbic-acid-side-effects.html
How much C were you taking? I am taking a gram in divided doses. I just noticed LIvon has xanthum gum in it which is disappointing. It is a gel and don't taste or smell the alcohol like I do with swedish bitters or tinctures.

I think the chemist from qualityliposomalc.com and the Livon's uses a lot more vit c (possibly 20 times more) than Brooks Bradley's or others I've seen.
http://qualityliposomalc.com/styled-2/index.html
http://michaelmooney.net/BrooksBradleysHomemadeLiposomalVitaminCMethod.pdf

Feed your adrenals
Vitamin C is naturally highest in our adrenal glands. Research suggests stress can deplete our stores of the vitamin, meaning supplementation is a wise choice for extra protection during trying times.

vit C on helping the adrenal glands;

"Vitamin C
This powerful antioxidant vitamin is directly involved in the production of cortisol in your adrenals. So besides the other health benefits it carries (boosting your immune system, protecting from free radicals), vitamin C is also an essential building block for the recovery of your adrenal glands. You can start with 1000mg of vitamin C and then gradually increase your dose over time. Buffered or liposomal vitamin C is generally the best form, and it should be in combination with bioflavonoids, just as it often is in nature."
http://www.drlam.com/articles/Liposomal_Encapsulation_Technology.asp

"A German study subjected participants to stressors such as public speaking and math problems (certainly an acute stress for many). They found that cortisol and high blood pressure were significantly greater in those who did not receive a vitamin supplement."
http://www.chatelaine.com/health/wellness/detox-reduce-stress-and-lose-belly-fat-with-vitamin-c/

Am I right in the following:
High dose Vit C lowers copper levels but increases copper absorption, delays insulin/increases Sugar blood sugar levels and high toxicity levels of copper may induce candida growth because copper is needed to absorb iron by candida albicans. Vit C also increases iron absorption and it is the unavailable iron that candida and other microbes use for proliferating inside our body.

Which makes supplementing with lactoferrin, zinc helpful and/or avoiding multivitamins containing iron, copper. Lactoferrin is thought to lower these free or nonavailable iron before candida utilizes it to evade the immune system. Iron helps sustain candida during fungal infection.

Having fungal yeast overgrowth can lead to anemia because iron retention is initiated in macrophages when it detects candida. All this occurs because iron and candida albicans can't be apart from one another.

Most of this info from this peer reviewed journal I've found.
In the journal, it is stated even bone marrow transplant are more susceptible to fungal infection because of this. Iron increases candida overgrowth not inhibit. Sounds interesting.

'Iron Acquisition from Transferrin by Candida albicans Depends on the Reductive Pathway'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1231083/
abstract;
"Host-pathogen interactions that alter virulence are influenced by critical nutrients such as iron. In humans, free iron is unavailable, being present only in high-affinity iron binding proteins such as transferrin. The fungal pathogen Candida albicans grows as a saprophyte on mucosal surfaces. Occasionally it invades systemically, and in this circumstance it will encounter transferrin iron. Here we report that C. albicans is able to acquire iron from transferrin."

Discussion;
"C. albicans, which is generally a saprophyte on mucosal surfaces, in some settings disseminates within the circulation; in order to survive, it must find ways to access critical nutrients (such as iron) in the hostile host environment. Within the host circulation, iron is present as heme in hemoglobin or as transferrin. Here we show that C. albicans can access transferrin iron via the high-affinity reductive system."

"C. albicans was starved for iron until growth was retarded. Holotransferrin added to these iron-depleted cells was able to restore growth, indicating that it was being used as a source of iron. Growth promotion was quite good as assessed by effects on lag time and doubling time, although it was still inferior to that with ferrichrome or ferric salts. Thus, transferrin iron can be efficiently used as an iron source. "

Role of transferrin iron uptake in virulence;
"Host-pathogen interactions that determine virulence are influenced by critical nutrients such as iron (55, 59). During intravascular infections, heme and transferrin represent the likely major iron sources for pathogens. To protect these sources, the host mobilizes an iron-withholding defense. Microbial lipopolysaccharides trigger increased expression of the peptide mediator hepcidin, a component of the type II acute-phase response (47, 53). This in turn leads to inhibition of duodenal iron absorption and an increase of iron retention in macrophages (48). This can culminate in anemia of inflammation, lowering transferrin iron saturation and limiting the availability of iron to an invading pathogen (21, 33). In contrast, there are also clinical conditions in which serum iron and transferrin saturation increase, conditions that favor some pathogens. Patients with leukemia and individuals who have undergone bone marrow transplants have increased susceptibility to fungal infections, and sera from these patients have been shown to promote rather than inhibit Candida growth (8, 31, 44)."

"Patients with leukemia and individuals who have undergone bone marrow transplants have increased susceptibility to fungal infections, and sera from these patients have been shown to promote rather than inhibit Candida growth"

Re copper;

Even copper is shown to not be good for those with candida because C. albicans is dependent on copper for ferrous uptake to make multicopper oxidase, namely Fet3p which is found in Saccharomyces cerevisiae.
Excerpt


Iron uptake from transferrin is copper dependent;

"Ferrous iron uptake in C. albicans is copper dependent (36, 46, 67), and optimal growth of C. albicans under low-iron conditions requires a multicopper oxidase, encoded by FET3 (18). Wild-type C. albicans cultures were grown in low-iron defined medium containing 1 or 0.1 mM of the copper chelator bathocuproinedisulfonic acid (BCS). These cells exhibited only 0.6 and 16%, respectively, of the level of iron uptake from transferrin that copper adequate cells displayed (Fig. ​(Fig.4).4). This requirement for copper strongly suggests the involvement of a multicopper oxidase, a partner protein required with the ferrous permease for high-affinity ferrous iron uptake. Overall these biochemical results, together with the analysis of the ftr1−/− strain, indicate that iron uptake from transferrin depends on the reductive uptake pathway."


Anyways there seems to be many benefits of high dose vit C especially when it is liposomal and absorbable. Some benefits which you may already know. One common use in treating cancer patients which I find fascinating. Vit C is a powerful antioxidants and electron donor for free radicals. For oxidative stress and eliminating toxins. I was going to use it to detox from all these antifungals.

Anyways, for vitamin C use. Again, I think you're getting die off. I don't see any reason to supplement copper and iron. I was deficient in both in my last blood test. Yes, I use zinc, don't move much, didn't eat much game or grass fed beef like I do now but my skin was red, raised and joints, portions of body was red, swollen.

I'm just going to try to make my own batch and buy LivOn's for comparison but I just can;t decide on the materials and source of vitamin C yet.

What do I think Vit C can do for candida, sibo and people with other diseases? I think it'll help most as being a powerful detoxifier, antioxidiant and will be nice to add to my other antioxidants supplements I'm currently taking. I'd rather make things myself. Also will try making liposomal gluathione, cysteine which I was deficient in.

There is a journal on vitamin C and gluathione, cysteine in cells;
Vitamin C may increase intracellular glutathione and cysteine.

Here is a journal and some excerpts of the effects of vitamin C on cancer cells; how it increases intracellular glutathione and cysteine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3798917/

Abstract;
"The effect of high doses of vitamin C for the treatment of cancer has been controversial. Our previous studies, and studies by others, have reported that vitamin C at concentrations of 0.25–1.0 mM induced a dose- and time-dependent inhibition of proliferation in acute myeloid leukemia (AML) cell lines and in leukemic cells from peripheral blood specimens obtained from patients with AML. Treatment of cells with high doses of vitamin C resulted in an immediate increase in intracellular total glutathione content and glutathione-S transferase activity that was accompanied by the uptake of cysteine. These results suggest a new role for high concentrations of vitamin C in modulation of intracellular sulfur containing compounds, such as glutathione and cysteine. This review, discussing biochemical pharmacologic studies, including pharmacogenomic and pharmacoproteomic studies, presents the different pharmacological effects of vitamin C currently under investigation."

Introduction;
"There is increasing evidence that vitamin C (ascorbate) is selectively toxic to some types of tumor cells, functioning as a pro-oxidant [1,2,3]. Vitamin C at concentrations of 10 nM–1 mM induced apoptosis in neuroblastoma and melanoma cells [4] and was shown to be an important modulator for the growth of mouse myeloma cells in an in vitro colony assay [5]."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3798917/

Which ultra sonic did you use?
I'm thinking about using a 20 oz. UC from amazon;
http://www.amazon.com/Magnasonic-Professional-Ultrasonic-Instruments-MGUC500/dp/B007Q2M17K/ref=pd_sbs_201_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NYMW43YK9JNMSR2H7C7&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_

or a more expensive, 2-2.5L one
http://www.amazon.com/iSonic-P4810-Commercial-Ultrasonic-Cleaner/dp/B005GA1I3M/ref=pd_sbs_201_14?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ZA3DDJSZ49X5CWZ6PAG

Some 'recipes' calls for a 2 L like this
https://www.quantumbalancing.com/liposomalC.htm
The author who created http://www.qualityliposomalc.com/styled-3/index.html lists notes for those without a UC.



From what I've been reading, there is so much confusion on how to interpret iron and copper and its levels in the blood tests, then how its relation to bacteria, yeast. C and copper are antagonists, so is copper and zinc. C helps iron absorption. Maybe liposomal C is good for multiple reasons I've already tried to allude to.


More info on Vit. C being shown to increase intracellular glutathione;
"Treatment of cells with high doses of vitamin C resulted in an immediate increase in intracellular total glutathione content and glutathione-S transferase activity that was accompanied by the uptake of cysteine. These results suggest a new role for high concentrations of vitamin C in modulation of intracellular sulfur containing compounds, such as glutathione and cysteine"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3798917/


"Health Concerns and Low Glutathione Levels

Glutathione has been widely studied with over 99,000 published peer-reviewed scientific papers on this topic. In one review, almost 80% of people with chronic ailments were found to be deficient in glutathione. In fact, low levels of glutathione are involved in all disease states. The following symptoms, diseases and illnesses have been linked to low glutathione levels. (To find the scientific papers that have been published on each of these topics in relation to glutathione, visit http://www.pubmed.gov and type in “glutathione” and the symptom/disease/illness/syndrome of interest).

This list is substantial simply because glutathione is present in every cell in the body. Given that glutathione is the body’s master antioxidant and detoxifier, increasing intracellular glutathione levels allow all of your cells in your body to detoxify and to work more efficiently and effectively."

https://glutathioneforhealth.wordpress.com/health-concerns/



Lactoferrin or colostrum seems to be a good supplement of choice but given that is milk derived worried me.
"It has long been known that free iron impedes immune cell function1 and enables many pathogenic bacteria and candida to grow."
http://www.wellnessresources.com/tips/articles/lactoferrin_keeping_candida_friendly/
"Lactoferrin possesses two known direct antimicrobial peptides4 called lactoferricin B and lactoferrampin. Researchers exposed cells of candida albicans and E. coli18 to lactoferrin and then watched what happened under a high power laser scanning microscope."

Re copper:
I am going to keep searching for info on the subject. Especially the neurological and connective topics in the links from CZ page you posted. I'm still confused by all this because this is fresh and there is a heat wave that's on affecting us all on the westcoast. I know there needs to be a proper balance in minerals to abide to, and adding too much affects another but I think candida, bacteria in the SI and even parasites thrives off way too much of what we are putting into our body. If it makes sense, I personally believe they should starve for a long period, try to fix our hormones/adrenals,thyroid and boost our immune system for detoxing, strength. Vit C can by all my accounts from reading help that all. I don't know.

Can someone please help me decide on a choice Ultrasonic cleaner so I can get this started? And non GMO, organic sunflower lecithin, vitamin C or a Phosphatidylcholine supplement, or something more potent?
I've already ordered Livon's liposomal C. I weary because of the alcohol content. It's listed first on the list of ingredients I may react adversely to it. The alcohol content in swedish bitters and alcohol based tinctures is so strong and noticeable, can't imagine any of that gets 'burned' off.

Ultra sonic cleaners;

Is a 500 ml or 1.5L-2L sufficient enough for making vitamin C every day or every other day? I would assume 1.5-2L is too big. Do i look for wattage, ultra sonic voltage? liposomalC.com states that I can make this without a use of ultra sonic cleaner but I plan on making lipo. glutathione too. I have not yet looked at bulletproof or any other supplements. These supplements are getting overwhelming.
I buy everything off amazon and vitaminshoppe because they have cheap prices. Amazon is legit, reputable sellers, strict policies for sellers and high quality customer service. Amazon prime, quick shipping is perfect.

Here are my choices;
1. BlackHillsGoldSource Model 890 , 600 ml Sonic Cleaning $45.97
http://www.amazon.com/Magnasonic-Professional-Ultrasonic-Instruments-MGUC500/dp/B007Q2M17K/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

2. Magnasonic Professional Ultrasonic 600 mL, $39.99

3. iSonic P4810 Commercial Ultrasonic Cleaner, 2.1Qt/2L
http://www.amazon.com/iSonic-P4810-Commercial-Ultrasonic-$89.99

1. Sunflower Lecithin; Does not say Organic but non-GMO and highly rated
Swanson's brand;
http://www.amazon.com/Sunflower-Lecithin-Non-Gmo-454-grams/dp/B00CZ7YGRY/ref=pd_sim_23_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0G2QP77Q7S5VDQJKC06A&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL320_SR272%2C320_

2. Organic, non-GMO $19.99. Probably my preferred choice

https://www.mysunflowerlecithin.com/product/100-organic-sunflower-protein-powder/

Vitamin C;

This is where I can have more freedom. Just depending on what I want. Non-Gmo, corn, soy free
I believe i read somewhere or heard that ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate is fine but sodium ascorbate is more tolerable? or it doesn't matter. Also Acerola, camu camu is what I would probably opt for if it was not so expensive.

Some choices;
1. Sodium ascorbate
http://www.amazon.com/Nutribiotic-Sodium-Ascorbate-Powder-Pound/dp/B000I4DOVU/ref=pd_sim_121_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=089CTTM5ZFFGVYATVZFM&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL160_SR140%2C160_
http://www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Vitamin-Ascorbate-Crystals/dp/B000GFPCO8/ref=sr_1_2?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1441930623&sr=8-2&keywords=sodium+ascorbate+powder

2. L-ascorbic acid
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GLX3C4G?psc=1

3. Can you use camu camu or mixed acerola powder?
http://www.amazon.com/Terrasoul-Superfoods-Powder-Organic-7-ounce/dp/B00QMVSN1E/ref=sr_1_3?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1441930643&sr=8-3&keywords=camu+camu+powder

I just ordered the one from source naturals. Tired of waiting and I'm in a rush. So much on my mind that is unrelated to vit C, health, etc.

Dr. Thomas Levy. Used to make his own liposomal supplements until Livon hired him for consultation. He has quite few of articles on this site about vit C, liposomes. his videos of his lectures are online.
http://www.peakenergy.com/

root canals are a primary cause of chronic disease

http://www.naturalhealth365.com/natural_healing/root_canals.html

Lecture on vitamin C by brilliant Suzanne Humphries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0LLX0sgwAU
Vitamin C Antidote too all known toxins Thomas Levy, MD - even SNAKEBITE! VIRAL VIRUS BACTERIAL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpptUsJFCEY


How to make;
Liposomal (Lipospheric) Vitamin C, Vitamin B, Glutathione, and Stem Cells (How to Make)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYRIjhReC8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WSlvb6LVWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cBp879mfgI

The vit C forum is slow.

thank you for the help and reply

Excuse the grammatical errors and confusion again


 

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