Date:   8/21/2009 1:20:59 PM ( 15 y ago)
Hits:   11,358
URL:   https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1476761

Some of the things you've said before are finally sinking in Telman. Now I'm getting it, and understanding how all the loose ends tie together.

This was another post where you were also talking about things that affect the bile salt pool. I have no gallbladder, which is a major cause, but I also have celiac and food/herbal supplement allergies I hadn't known about for probably years too.

//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1342480


The Howensteine reports have fit right into all of this:

gallbladder/ food allergies
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james19.htm


bile salts:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james63.htm


But, the information you gave me in a following post/thread, has finally made THE difference for me with the liver stones not forming like they had been for so long..it has taken the ox-bile, WITH the phosphatidyl choline, PLUS also the pancreatin enzymes to turn the major corner for me. All of them at the same time, consistently (!) prior to meals, and especially meals that have more fats, which I hadn't been doing.

I can also understand (now) why I would have been further depleteing the bile salt pool with no gallbladder, by doing so many liver flushes--but the other thing that I had already been "wondering" about prior to learning what the bile consists of (and that has to be in the right balance for the cholestrol to not coagulate)--is this...

If I didn't already have the bile salts and choline, and enzymes to emulsify, break down the fats/cholestrol, and was then taking in that much oil each week in the liver flushes...no wonder stones continued to form in my liver :(

The other thing I didn't fully realize until recently, and you also referred to it in the post about the bacterias, but there are anaerobic bacterias that also attack/feed on the bile salts and cause problems in the liver/gallbladder too. I've known this for a while already, but parasites also bring bacterias and viruses. I can now also understand why the parasites and pathogens are able to get the head start they do in a liver that has coagulated/backed up bile, and why toxins are also backing up.

The other thing too, that I don't think I've mentioned to you before, is the Epstein Barr Virus that the Nurse Practitioner thought to look for with the chronically elevated liver enzymes, when I was trying to find out what was going on through MD's. The EBV was a found a full year after the gallbladder surgery and it is also known to hit the liver.

Lots of things to think about, but it's been interesting fitting the puzzle pieces together. You've been a major help in my finally getting things put together too that are making a difference. Thanks Telman!

There's always more to learn :)


//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1457785


>>>The major problem with cholesterol is its inherently high melting point of 150 deg C. This is way above body temperature. When the essential fatty acids linoleic and linolenic are present in sufficient quantity with lecithin, cholesterol becomes liquid below normal body temperature.

'Normal' Bile is a critically stable (Metastable) material. It is a mixture of 3 compounds:
Cholesterol
Bile Salts
Lecithin

They need to exist together in certain proportion and any imbalance in any of the 3 substances can lead to anomalies in the bile. Too much cholesterol and crystals of cholesterol and clumps of fatty material form. A drop in lecithin and crystals of cholesterol, clumps of fatty material and cluster of plastic like material form. A drop in bile salts and clumps of fatty material and cluster of plastic like material form.

It can be seen that bile has the potential to make a wide variety of different types of 'stones' in the liver, ducts or gallbladder. It is also possibly that bile falling within normal concentrations may under certain condition form gall stones, Eg if the bile isn't replenished regularly or the gallbladder doesn't contract properly among other things.>>


 

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